Brother and sister now fighting after being spayed

[miffnut]

Hi all,

First time posting on this website.

We have 2 mini lop rabbits. Brother and sister and less than a year old (born in Feb). He was neutered around 5 months old (when he could first get desexed) and she was spayed yesterday. We seperated them with fencing as a precautionary measure so she could recover without him accidentally hurting her. Today we witnessed the boy bite her through the fencing removing a bit furr from her head and a few hours ago we put them in the same area and he charged her underside twice! It’s important to note she hasn’t expressed any aggressive behaviour towards him since she’s been back.

Previously they were never aggressive with one another and always cuddled and cleaned each other. Even after his neutering they were fine.

We have separated them for now but they can still see each other.

Not sure what to do and totally confused. Any ideas on his behaviour? What can we expect? Why is he like this?

Thanks!

[Sirius&Luna]

Hi,

You need to give your girl at least a month alone to recover from being spayed. If they got into a fight now, she could get injuries that result in her wound being reopened or damaged. A spay is an invasive operations and she needs to be given time to recover in peace.

The boy is probably attacking her because she’s come back from the vets smelling different, and he no longer recognizes her as his friend. To be honest, it’s amazing that a pairing with an unspayed rabbit got along so well for so long. For future reference, once your bunnies are bonded, they must always be together, so that means always taking both to the vets at once or the bond can break.

I’m afraid you’ll need to go back to bonding basics. This means you can pre-bond while she’s recovering, swapping their blankets, toys and litter trays so they can smell each other. This should be done for about a month. After that, you can introduce them on neutral territory. The neutral territory is very important. If you see any signs of aggression from either, you need to intervene before it escalates. Slowly increase the time they spend together in the neutral space. For more detail on the bonding steps, feel free to ask, or read some other threads in this forum.

[Bam]

Agree with Sirius & Luna about the amount of time that needs to pass between the spay and their re-bonding. It takes 2 weeks for the girl’s operation wounds to heal completely, and the additional time allows for her hormones to settle. There are instances when a neutered boy and an unspayed girl can get along well, but spaying her is, as you probably know! – the absolute best thing you can do for her long term health and it is the best thing for bonding as well.

I also agree with S&L on the aggression from your male’s side. It’s very common that one bun reacts with aggression to another bun that’s been to the vet. It seems reasonable it has to do with smell. Taking one bun in a bonded couple to the vet while leaving the other bun at home can very well break the bond, so that’s why it’s recommended to bring both buns. It’s not always practical though, and all vets might not approve.

If you make sure they can’t reach each other to hurt each other, bonding a months from now should go relatively smoothly. You have the optimum constellation, two buns that have been together from when they were little, have never been in any serious fights and are re-introduced after de-sexing.

[miffnut]

Thanks for replying guys. We really appreciate the advice you’ve provided us. We are sad to hear that their bond has been broken and they’ll need to spend time apart.

Will it still be okay if they can see each other and smell each other through the fencing? Or should they be kept in different rooms where they can’t see or smell each other? The fencing will be setup so they can’t touch or hurt each other.

Thanks again!

[Azerane]

You can certainly keep them in the same room and it is a good idea to do so. Perhaps for the meantime though you will need to separate their cages at least a couple of inches, have a divider between them so that they can’t reach in and bit each other through the bars

[miffnut]

Hi again everyone!

Thought I would provide an update and also ask for some guidance while we re-bond our two babies together.

We followed the advice provided from this thread and from other articles online. As advised we waited a month before any bonding sessions had begun as Miffy our female rabbit was recently spayed. Her brother Chestnut (also neutered) has an amazing ability to leap over high fences and because of this they are in separate rooms.

Starting with some pre-bonding both rabbits spent a couple hours in each other’s area and over a few days they got quite comfortable. Eating, drinking, sleeping and using the litter tray was all fine. One day we arrived home and Miffy had broken out from her playpen and found her sitting next to Chestnuts playpen. She was relaxed and no visible signs of fighting through the fence. Chestnut was sprawled out right against the fence next to Miffy. We don’t know how long she was there but it’s possible it could have been a few hours.

The following day we set them down in neutral territory. They sniffed the new area out before turning to each other. Their noses moving at 100km/h. Miffy kept her head down while Chestnut sniffed her head and then he gave her a soft lick along the ear. But that was it. They just sat there next to each other. We ended the session with lots of petting and a slice of apple for each.

Last night they met again in the same area. They sniffed each other but this time Chestnut mounted her, she didn’t react. We didn’t know what to do at this point, we know he was asserting dominance but we figured this was their way of establishing hierarchy? We let this behaviour continue. When they were younger Miffy would always run to Chestnut and place her head down in front of him and he would respond by grooming then mounting her head. This was common and if we saw it we would take him off. Last night this is what Miffy was doing again and Chestnut being Chestnut would respond like he always did. Towards the end of the session he licked her back a few times and after a few minutes they sat apart from each other. Again we ended the session with petting and apple.

How are we looking? What can we do better? And what would be the next best step?

Thanks again for all the advice you provide us. We hope we can have these two back together!

P.S – I don’t know how this forum works. Will this update get attention? Or would I need to resubmit under a new title?. Cheers.

[Sirius&Luna]

That sounds like it’s going well! That’s a really positive start.

A bit of correct mounting is fine – you’re right, it’s how they establish dominance. As long as he is mounting her the right way round, and she doesn’t seem distressed, you can leave them to it. If he mounts her face you must stop it immediately (as you have done), as it can result in genital bites.

When she puts her head below his, she’s trying to be dominant by asking for grooms. By him mounting her head instead, he’s rejecting her attempts at dominance.

The dominance will have to be something they figure out, so don’t be surprised if there’s a bit of nipping.

Next steps is just keep on with what you’re doing! You can try increasing the time they’re spending together, as long as it’s still all positive behaviour. Let us know the progress you’re making, and we might be able to offer tips if you come to a standstill (which seems to happen in most bonding processes at some point!)

Positive behaviours to watch out for: Both flopping, mirroring each others actions, both grooming each other

Negative behaviours to stop: circling, chasing longer than 5 seconds, boxing.

Nuetral behaviours: ignoring each other, light nipping.

[miffnut]

Well it seems our bunnies are getting comfortable with each other. And fast!

We placed them in the same neutral area again and it wasn’t long till Miffy (F) thrusted her head under Chestnuts. Thankfully he responded positively by grooming her. This behaviour continued on for a few minutes with her reciprocating a few times. I feel it’s important to mention that she chose to groom Chestnut as he did not present himself. It wasn’t until later in the session that he started presenting his head to her which resulted in a 50/50 groom return.

There did seem to be a bit of ‘competition’ with head presenting. Miffy ultimately winning by forcing her head under his and him grooming her.

Some adorable flopping also occurred from both bunnies. Miffy was the first to dramatically flop as usual and Chestnut also flopping shortly after. Towards the end of the session both bunnies were flopped over relaxing side by side.

This session lasted about an hour with no signs of negative behaviour

Later today we will have another session for a longer time and report back.

Thanks again for your suggestions. We really appreciate the assistance from you and everyone here in the forum.

Here are some progress images! Miffy is our white bunny and Chestnut the orange.
https://imgur.com/a/tZFeF

[DanaNM]

That all sounds very positive! Maybe they are remembering the good parts of their past? At any rate, keep up the good work

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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