Bonding with Pain

[lygray]

 Hello All,

I did not know where to post this so here it goes… I have two buns, a 4 yr girl old and a 2 yr old boy. They are bonded, have been for two years. It was very easy and took about a month. They never seriously hurt eachother. I just got another girl and she is about 5 months. I have kept her around my other two for about three months now and It is not going well. Honey, the baby, was introduced by having both groups caged near eachother. Then She got spayed and I seperated her until she was better, about a month. Now They have been caged near eachother for two months. I let my first two free and then Honey at different times and monitor them. I am starting to loose hope and need some words of enlightenment, help, and generally some positive thoughts. 

about two months ago, I found Honeys toe all bloody after I came home from work…my dad apparently did not monitor them right. Anyways, Honey eventually lost a nail but nothing more thanks to my vet. Today, I just noticed there is a big split in her ear. I have tried to disinfect it and bandaged it but I dont know what else to do. It is already a little scabbed, I think she is ok, I just need to treat it as a scar and avoid infection. I just dont know if Honey and my 4yr old, Lola will ever get along.

They have been aggressive with eachother almost the whole time. Sometimes, Lola will look calm but then she will have an outburst. I feel better separating them again for a little while and then trying again but I am loosing hope. I dont want to give up Honey and I cant stand seeing her in the cage so much… she is a big bun and the cage is not so big. One issue I have is my cage for Lola and Cinnabon is big but it is made out of those special metal shelf things… its a custom cage I made. Lola can fit her nose through the bars and bite. Honey is curious and tries to get close… hence I need to monitor so Honey does not loose a nose….

I need some help and encouragement if there is some. Are there any special things I can do so these girls stop fighting? I should add that Cinnabon, my boy, will fight Honey if Lola gets upset but when he is alone with honey (separated by cage bars), he has no problem with her. He is actually kind to her. I think he will like her but…

HELP!

[jerseygirl]

Oh poor you! It is early days so don’t lose hope yet. Female to female bonds are tough. From what others have mentioned, when bonding more than 2, you do start by bonding the difficult ones first. In your case, Honey and Lola. I might suggest it might still be too early…that Honey perhaps things may change once Honey is an adult. I think short sessions with just these two in a completely neutral space is in order. (Neutral meaning somewhere neither have been before).  How do they all act when the three are together? Does having Cinnabon there make things better or worse?

With the cages, have them several inches apart or put something over the adjoining sides so they can’t get at one another thru the bars. It won’t aid the bonding at all if they can injure one another. Have you tried swapping litter boxes or cage swaps to accustomise them to each others scent?

[Sarita]

I am going to move this to the bonding section shortly.

[lygray]

Well, Honey’s cage is so small, I cannot fit a litterbox in there but when I let Honey out,I place her poops in the litterbox Lola and Cinnabon use. They really have no reaction to that. When Cinnabon is around, It just depends on Lola’s mood. If Lola is mad, he will defend her and attack Honey. Should I place Honeys cage in another room until her and Lola are bonded? In the sessions, do you mean with cages or without? I get nervous without cages but I can go buy another leash and put them on leashes to help me and my sister control them when things go sour… good idea?

Thank you for your help.

[Deleted User]

Never use harnesses on rabbits during bonding sessions. If your rabbits decide to turn a ninja trick, they can tangle up and suffer complex injuries.
I would focus on thegirls for now and do short sessions on a car ride for example. Car rides are stressful and might get these two snuggling for safety. This will help get them used to each other. You may have to do many sessions in different set-ups to get them bonded. Just do not let them fight. Control them by keeping them in a small confined space such as a laundry basket or a box. Wear heavy gloves and use your hands to keep them from hurting each other.

[lygray]

Ok, no harness… got it! For the car ride sessions, should I have someone to help me with them? Should they be together in the same basket? I assume so but just want to make sure. The car is a great idea. The problem I am having is my two buns has been pretty much all over my house, like 98% of it. I am having a hard time thinking of a neutral spot. Some places they rarely hang out in but they have been there… what do I do about that?

[Deleted User]

Definitely have an assistant driving the car while you attend to the rabbits sitting in one basket, stroking them lots. For neutral spot inside your home you could try the bathtub which has worked with some bonds. Put a towel on the bottom and watch not to let them jump out. If they start fighting in the tub, you can run a little water from the tap into the drain for splashing noise to distract them, just don’t run the water on the bunnies. If the tub doesn’t work, try the sink. There really isn’t any room for chasing etc in a sink. Don’t leave them alone in the sink because they can get hurt if they jump out. –These set-ups all help with getting the two to spend time without fighting each other. These stress sessions shouldn’t last too long, only 20 minutes in the beginning will suffice. You will eventually move on to a larger area like a pen but even then you may need something to stop any attacks before they happen. For now, focus on the close sessions with stress (car ride/tub/sink) and observe.

[jerseygirl]

Yep, the tub was good when I bonded mine. Though not so good on you back or knees! Also, someone suggested to me to creat a neutral space with a pen. Clean down the area first with vinegar/water solution, then set up the pen and line the sides with a sheet or tablecloths. Try the tub first though if you have one. Very easy space to keep watch over them. Try avoid using the cages as they are likely very territorial about those.

Tips from this site and others on bonding.  (You may have viewed these already)

https://www.binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO/Bondin…fault.aspx

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/bond.shtml

http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/introductions.html

Of course, you can also take a look at some of the other bonding a trio stories here in the forums.

[lygray]

Ok, all great help. I took lola and honey on their first ride just now and they did waaaaay better than I expected! There was a little of what could have been hostility at the end but I stopped it. They were all over eachother and cuddling more than lola does with Cinnabon?!!?! I think this is starting off great. How long should I have these car rides. It was about ten minutes which I think was good. Should I do this two times a day for about a week? or just a few days?

thanks all

[Deleted User]

Do the rides daily for a few more days, and then try the bathtub. You will be able to tell where the buns are at. Don’t be alarmed if the encounter in the tub is less friendly, just keep them controlled. You can use a small handbroom to break up an aggressive advance. If the hostility is very pronounced, continue on with car rides,stroking sessions on your lap and keep a positive spirit.

[lygray]

Update…

So far every car ride is great, no hostility whatsoever…. After abut two more days, I think I will move to the tub!

[lygray]

Ok. I tried the bath tub today and almost all hell broke loose. I had my sis help me with honey and I took charge of lola. Honey would approach Lola because she is friendly but Lola would attack as if in self-defense. I used the pasta strainer trick… awesome but it is frustrating to be holding it. Should I go back to car rides or try the tub again…?

[jerseygirl]

You only need do short rides (say 10 minutes like you said) but then follow it by a session in a neutral area like the tub. If car rides are inconvenient, you can try other stress methods like walking around with them in a box, or them in a box/basket on top of a spinning washing machine.  Some people have used noise stressors too, like vac cleaner, running water, rattling a jar of pennies even, whilst they are in the neutral area.

[lygray]

Ok. They are doing good in the car… I went back to car rides for a little while and I will try the tub again. Noise is a good idea. I will try that.

[MarkBun]

Do the car ride first and then put them in the tub afterwards. See what happens that way.

[MooBunnay]

I agree with MarkBun, hopefully the car ride will make them nervous enough that they aren’t ready to attack each other right away when they get into the tub. You can keep a vacuum in the bathroom too to turn on, or something else that can make a loud noise in case they start fighting in the tub. Bonding a trio is very difficult, and sometimes bonding two females can be really hard. Is there any way you could find somewhere else for Honey to play and live where she would have more room, until they are bonded?

[lygray]

I have been letting her out every other day for the entire day… I can see her sadness. I think I do have a room but it is not bunny proofed and there are a lot of my dads electronics in there.. ugh!

[lygray]

Ok. Today, I took them out twice around the house in a laundry basket moving it… very good reaction, then placed them in tub almost immediately. They did surprisingly good. There was one doubt I had when Lola kinda jolted towards Honey but then I rubbed her fav. spot and she licked Honey. I stopped and she stopped licking and started again on her own. I think this is a good sign.

I separated them during this so they leave eachother on a good note, unlike last time. Great help.

[lygray]

Lola had an abscess surgery two days ago and I think this stops the bonding progress… they were doing very well too! Anyway, So I thought maybe I should start bonding Honey and Cinnabon while Lola is recovering… suggestions?

[Author]

Messages