Bonding rabbits

[sarie]

Hi there,

I recently bought a young doe to bond with my established neutered male, I have them in cages next to each other and every day I have been taking them out and putting them in the bath to get familiar. She is very curious and goes up to him but will start pulling out fur, he defends himself but never initiates an attack. I squirt them with water and break them up. After a bit of this I noticed that she went up to him and placed her head under his chin, he did not respond but they sat like this for some time. While she did this I noticed her tail was up, which I have read is a bad sign. I can’t figure out whether we are making progress. Is she submitting to him or trying to start another fight? Is his lack of response frustrating her? If anyone has any advice I’d be happy to hear it.

Sarie

[LittlePuffyTail]

Is she spayed? If not, wait until she is spayed to do any bonding. It is very frustrating for both bunnies when one is unaltered and full of hormones.

[sarie]

No, not yet. Is it completely impossible for them to get on if she is not?

[Baxter n Boos Mom]

I don’t believe it’s impossible to bond her before she is spayed – but as LPT said above – hormones can complicate matters by adding to the already stressful situation, by making her more aggressive and territorial. The last thing you want is for the buns to fight – because it can be dangerous for the buns, and makes it harder to bond them.

p.s. by placing her head to the ground, she is asking him to groom her.

[Beka27]

She needs to be spayed before you proceed with bonding.

How old is she? Has she been to the vet for her initial exam yet? Females can be spayed at about 6 months old. Once that is done and she is allowed to heal for about a month, then you can start with bonding sessions.

[sarie]

Thanks for all your advice so far. She is only 15 weeks old, so nearly 4 months, but she is a giant also I don’t know whether this makes any difference to the time she can be spayed? When she is in the bath with the other rabbit she poo’s a lot and wees, but he doesn’t. She is definitely the more dominant rabbit although she is smaller than him. Today I introduced a surrogate teddy with Lincolns (male rabbit) smell on it. She was humping it a lot, so clearly lots of hormones. I think I’ll definitely spay her as she bit me today. But I’m not surprised seeing as I’m the person spraying her with water when she pulls fur.

[sarie]

I think we have made progress. Today’s session in the bath, Sadie went straight up to Lincoln and put her head under his chin, he didn’t really respond but allowed her to stay there. She then went back to her side of the bath and then did it again. I gave them both treats and then she nipped his bum after that. There was considerably less fur pulling and she weed and pooped a lot less. This was after her fake date with fake Lincoln. As long as they are not injuring each other and we continue to make progress do you think it is ok to continue in this vain until she is old enough to be spayed?

[Beka27]

There’s really no benefit to continuing with bonding sessions until she is spayed. Chances are any bond that forms will break when she gets spayed and has to be housed separately while she heals. The risk of injury is also a concern since she is just now becoming hormonal.

If she’s a large breed rabbit, the vet may spay her at 4 or 5 months. That is their call tho.

[tanlover14]

I would definitely not continue with bonding. The problem with unspayed/neutered bunnies is their hormones are all over the place. Although you see their bonding as going well, it only takes one time for her to really bite him good for it to be MUCH harder to bond after the spay and to completely break any progress you have made.

Her smell can also change after the spay – making her seem like an almost completely new bunny to him.

[Beka27]

You can also spend this time working on your relationship with her. The more comfortable she is with you, the better bonding will go later on.

[sarie]

Hi Guys,
I took your advice and stopped bonding and was waiting for Sadie to reach a good age for her op. While waiting for this I noticed that Sadie was in fact a boy, (I am relatively inexperienced in sexing rabbits so just took the sellers word for it…….d’oh). It was very amusing because I noticed when his balls dropped…..hard to miss especially on giant breeds. So Sadie……who we have now taken to calling Dave……although we have grown accustomed to Sadie so this may stay his name……will be having his op in two weeks and I will begin the process of bonding two male rabbits…..not sure how that will go. I have to let Sadie run around out in the garden, which he absolutely loves and this is where our other rabbit lives so they are always sniffing each other but they have never bitten through the cage the other day they both lay down next to each other (with the wire cage dividing them and seemed quite happy so I hope this is a sign of things to come. We’ll see and keep you posted. Will try and get some pics on as well Sadie/Dave is so cute and extremely friendly….comes when he is called. By the way he likes to run around our legs and he tends to nibble at my trouser legs, is he grooming me or is this aggressive?

[tanlover14]

Bonding male rabbits is perfectly fine and not as difficult as everyone has always made it out to be. My boys are in LOVE (all three of them) and my girl has always been the problem in bonding! Don’t believe that odd myth. So many other people on BB have bonded boys too! No worries!

LOL. That behavior is called the “love dance”. He likes you! =D

[sarie]

Thanks that’s helpful. I’m looking forward to trying again when he’s healed after his op. He’s the most friendly rabbit I’ve ever had. Lincoln is lovely but very shy so we’ve really been enjoying all the attention we get from Sadie.

[sarie]

A bad thing has happened and I need some advice. I have been letting Sadie out to run around the garden. Lincoln lives in a hutch and run in the garden and of course I never let them out at the same time. Sadie is now 2 weeks post castration so I still haven’t started bonding but I do let him run around the garden for the exercise. I had been supervising him because he is still quite small and I didn’t want cats being interested in him but my confidence has grown in him being trusted alone in the garden. Tonight when I went out to bring him in he had somehow managed to get into Lincoln’s hatch and clearly they had had a massive fight there was fur everywhere, mostly Lincoln’s. The two rabbits were either end of the run clearly worn out and panting. I brought Sadie in and inspected him and he looked fine but was clearly exhausted and lay down straight away. Lincoln seemed also to be ok although he had a few small scratches around his mouth, but no major injuries just a lot of tufts of fur. I will keep an eye on both. My concern now is that after such a bad experience will either rabbit be able to bond with each other now? Is it worth putting them through the stress. Lincoln has recently had a urinary tract infection which I am worried was brought on by the stress of another rabbit being around and my earlier attempts at bonding them. I am worried he is likely to keep a grudge and never bond with Sadie. What are your thoughts?
Sarah

[Beka27]

I’m glad you’ve updated and that Sadie is neutered now and healing up, but I’m sorry it wasn’t a completely positive update… :o(

It is true that a bad experience can make things more difficult, but not impossible. Please make sure that they are both kept in secure areas until you are ready to begin bonding so this doesn’t happen again.

I would not “throw in the towel” by any means. Sadie still has hormones surging through his system. And Lincoln probably went into attack mode trying to protect his territory. When you’re ready to bond, you can start with “stressing” sessions, and then move into a neutral space for the actual bonding session. As the sessions progress, you will need to change locations at least once or twice, and their final living space may need to be one that neither has lived in.

I am confused by your description of their habitat, though. They are both indoor bunnies, right? They just play outside?

[tanlover14]

I completely agree with Beka. I would not give up on bonding them at all. As she said, Sadie most likely still has hormones raging around in him.

They most likely fought due to territory. Another bunny coming into Lincolns territory is a PRIME reason for a scuffle. So when your begin bonding absolutely make sure it’s in a neutral area that neither has even hung out in.

[Ranjen1]

Bonding is more about patience on the human’s part in all honesty. It is slow and does not always go well. Keep at it, you are doing a good thing for the bunnies and when it is all said and done they will be happier!

[tanlover14]

I just laughed hysterically. Ranjen is just completely RIGHT.

[Ranjen1]

LOL yeah I had my patience tested last night with my five bunny bonding and I was like, everyone back in your pens!!! I’m so tired…

[sarie]

Thanks for your messages of support. In the background behind all this we have been treating Lincoln for a urinary tract infection, possibly brought on by the stress of us introducing a new rabbit to the mixed and earlier bonding sessions before we knew Sadie was a he. Anyway that had just cleared up when the fight broke out and Lincoln had a slight relapse. I’d not let Sadie anywhere near Lincoln’s cage for a few days until I could get to the vet and I think that helped. Anyway I think Lincoln is in effect weeing himself when under stress. Therefore I’m worried that when both rabbits are well and hormones are out of the equation that stress bonding just wont be good for Lincoln at all. Any thoughts. I’m beginning to notice marked improvements in Sadie’s behaviour towards me, he nips my trouser legs not at all now and is really up for cuddles, where as pre-op he was happy to have attention on his own terms but didn’t much like being held when he didn’t want to be. He is still such a lovely rabbit, so friendly and cute. Definitely tell he’s being less manic and driven by hormones.

[tanlover14]

Hmm, that’s a confusing situation. I would try some bonding sessions (when all are completely well and non-hormonal) and try holding Lincoln and letting the others come up to him. This is what I did with Simba in the beginning as he was TERRIFIED of meeting my other three. It may make the beginning meetings less stressful for him and as he begins to open up and come out on his own with the others he can. So this way you are easing him into it without so much stress. I began by letting Simba sit on my lap while he was introduced to the others. As he began to sit more comfortably, I began setting him in front of my legs with my hands firmly holding him on each side and petting him every once in awhile to keep him calm. Then I moved it to setting him in front of me without holding him at all but allowing him access to me if he got really nervous. He would constantly jump back in my arms and then I would redo the same scenario again.

[sarie]

Hi All,
I have been leaving the rabbits for a long while and not trying any bonding. The only thing I have done is place two outside pens next to each other so that during the day they take it in turns to be out in the garden together but in separate spaces. This has been the case all summer. Anyway I tried for the first time in ages a time together in the bath. I think we’ve definitely made progress. Both rabbits sat ignoring each other and didn’t really interact. I’ve done three sessions like that now, the last one I let run for 20mins. I’m really pleased. They are showing indifference to each other but I understand that each session is helping to build trust between them. I think them being next to each other all that time has helped them get used to being in each others company. How long should I do this for until I start letting them in bigger spaces together? Also should I wait until they are interacting positively together?

[tanlover14]

I would definitely wait to move them to a larger space until they have interacted more. Being indifferent to each other is very good in the beginning but you’ll eventually want to push them together a bit more if they get “stuck” here where there is no progress. Making the space larger will increase the chance that they will chase so by waiting until they interact you can see what happens when they actually acknowledge each other before giving them the chance to chase.

I typically just make the pen smaller to force them to interact or put them inside a box or laundry basket to see what happens. I like the box and laundry basket because if they DO argue or fight, I can shake it and bang on the sides to startle them and stop the situation.

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