Bonding of Derek and Annabelle

[Samantha1357]

Today my two buns had their first date, I think it went pretty well. At first they ignored eachother but then Derek laid down flat and Annabelle sniffed his head and kinda nuzzled his ears. Derek didnt have any thumping or grunting but he doesnt seem to want her in the litter box. It was a brand new one so it didnt have anyones smell in it. Annabelle did thumping and grunting but it wasnt much. After about 10 minutes they got a little sassy and nipped each other but didnt break into a full out fight. After a few more minutes of them being together Annabelle licked Dereks head so I got the craisins out and ended it with a treat. Does this sound like a good first date?

[tanlover14]

Sounds good! Although, I would remove the litter box for the first few dates. It gives them an area to claim as their own. You want to eliminate their ability to do that to prevent fighting or agitation between the buns.

[Jesse97]

I would agree with tanlover14. You don’t need to worry about having a litter box anyways because your first dates shouldn’t be that long anyways. But it sounds like its going good

[Samantha1357]

They both used it when they were in there and both ate hay and played with toys. Tomorrow Ill remove the litterbox though, dont want to mess up their bonding!

[tanlover14]

Although they seem to both be okay – you want to strengthen their bonding to each other before giving them ANYTHING to lay claim to. My bunnies had a tendency not to care and then the next thing you know, they were on top of the new bunny because they claimed something as “theirs”.

It’s really popular for them to get these ideas out of nowhere, I swear.

[Samantha1357]

so no toys either?

[tanlover14]

Nope. The first few days you want them to focus on each other. Get a feeling for what their attitudes are together and work off from that. If they seem fine after a few dates – try putting in some hay in a bowl or on a towel so it eliminates mess. Eating together is a really good sign. Simba wouldn’t eat until he was almost completely bonded to the other bunnies. But you’ll be able to pick up subtle hints and clues from how they are doing as you add more stuff into their territory. It helps you get a better sense of reading their dynamics.

For example, neutral area with nothing in. Bunnies are fine and okay with each other. Then you add in a litter box few days later. They begin arguing. You know the problem is most likely someone being territorial over the new thing in the area. So you can take out the litter box and see how they react the next time. Cement their bond in each stage before adding new things in. You will be able to read their reactions to different things MUCH better. When food is added, if one begins guarding the food and fighting the other to stay away – you’ll know you need to work on this aspect of their bonding more. Especially if they are fine together without the food.

[Samantha1357]

thank you so much for your advice, going to get Annabelle and Derek now for their second date!

[tanlover14]

No problem! Would love to hear about how their date goes!

[Samantha1357]

Today didnt go as well as I had hoped. We were doing great, just some thumping and grunting and there was only one small little nip. They were laying nose to nose completed chill while I was petting their heads. Both of them were closing their eyes and just completely relaxed. So I got the craisins out to end on a good note-thats when it went bad. Derek went after her and they went into a fight. Thank god no one got hurt and I was able to separate them quickly. Should I not give them a treat when we are done?

[tanlover14]

How did you give them the craisins? If they are fighting over them – you ALWAYS want to end on a good note to keep them viewing the other bunny with positive things – then position yourself between the bunnies and give them both a craisin on either side of you. And give it to them at the same time to keep them occupied on the treat and less on what the other bunny is getting.

I know mine will climb all over each other sniffing and looking for treats (literally trying to yank them out of the other bunnies mouths) and they are bonded! Hahaha. So give them treats in a very orderly fashion to keep all the chaos down.

Also, don’t think your date didn’t go well just because of one mishap. This is only the SECOND time they’ve been together. On the 2nd date between Simba and Tanger, Tanger was biting marks into my hands while I shielded Simba from getting mauled by the crazy, VERY jealous boy. So believe me when I say your date did NOT go bad! This is typically how it is the first few dates. Nips, grunting, thumping. Everyone wants to be the big bad bunny.

[tanlover14]

ALSO – do your buns recognize the sound of the Craisin bag? Mine do and they will go ABSOLUTELY bonkers when they hear it. So if yours are familiar with it – take the craisins out of the bag before you even start so they don’t hear the bag and get all crazy over the craisins.

[Samantha1357]

They didnt even get a craisin, all I did was pick it up and open it (It amazes me how they know that sound is the craisin bag haha) they both came to my lap to get one (i had one in each hand for them) but Derek went at her. Yesterday when I got the craisins no one had a problem but from now on Ill have them out before and do one on each side of me to keep that from happening.

I wish I could have you bond my buns haha, youre amazing and have so much information. Thank you SO much for all your wonderful advice! I already have a bonded trio but theyve been together since they were almost 8 weeks old and I never had to do any bonding. Derek used to be in the family but was kicked out after everyone got spayed/neutered. Thats another question you might be able to answer-when Derek was with Rosie Rascal and Charming they chased him. I thought it was all hormonal but then they turned mean so I separated him. He is very skittish around Annabelle when she touches him( I think he is afraid of being chased). She will be smelling his ears or nudging him and he will run away and then she chases him but he is also a pain and instigator at the same time because then he will go sniff her but then run away making it look like she did something. Is this normal behavior?

[tanlover14]

Honestly, I think Derek would have been fine if he were just bonded back into the group when the problems began to start. I would’ve separated them all and than began bonding to kind of “strengthen” their bonds. It really just sounds like Derek was the “odd man” out and the bunnies hadn’t decided where he fit in yet and that’s what was causing the aggression between them. I see you mentioned you thought it was hormones – did this all happen BEFORE everyone being neutered? Or was it after? ANY bunny that has hormones left in their system can sort of disrupt the dynamics of the group. So all that aggression may have actually been the hormones of one bunny causing some stress and animosity in the group.

Have you thought about having a bonded five-some or are you set on having a trio and then pairs? If you’re up for the task, I’d encourage you to try group bonding with everyone and see how it goes. The most that can happen is you decide to stick with a trio and duo. I’m going to be bonding a fifth one into my group in about a month-two months. I’m excited/scared for the challenge, haha!

[tanlover14]

I forgot to answer about Dereks behavior – I think that’s pretty normal. When introducing Simba (the fourth) to the group he did the same thing. He would instigate fights by thumping and growling but then would run like a baby because the others would get worked up and chase him. Like one of them would come over and lay next to him and the next thing you know he’s thumping and growling up a storm about NOTHING and then the other bunny would chase him. LOL. In my opinion, it’s just them working out their differences.

[Samantha1357]

It was after they were spayed and neutered, and he was the odd man out. I dont want to do all five because the three that are bonded never completely litter trained. They were great but two days after their spay/neuter they started having accidents everywhere, i had 7 litter boxes in the room and the wouldnt use them. So those three were caged in hopes they would learn but still have accidents and cant have that with wood floors. So we are in the process of building a cage thats 6 feet tall 4 deep and i cant remember its length but its like 7 or 8 feet. for now they are in a bathroom until their cage is done. Annabelle and Derek never have accidents so I dont want them to learn from the other three.

[tanlover14]

Ah, so funny! My bonded trio have this same problem! They also have been together pretty much their whole lives as they’re all from the same litter. That is soo weird!!! Whereas Simba and Nora have PERFECT litter box habits.

[Samantha1357]

Two of mine are from the same litter (rosie and rascal) but I got charming the day after I got them. Annabelle is the half sister to rosie and rascal and Derek was the poor little petstore bun whos friends all died from an upper respiratory infection

[tanlover14]

Oh god, that is so horrible. My fifth, Nora, is ALSO a pet store bun we rescued who is currently battling an upper respiratory infection. She was VERY underweight so we’re working on getting her weight up as well. Our groups are so much alike! Too funny.

Let me know how their next date goes!

[Samantha1357]

Todays date went better, only a couple thumps when I first put them in the bathroom. They lay nose to nose and get pets..Annabelle kinda rubbed on his face (marking maybe?). No nipping or chasing today. ended it with a craisin one on each side just like you said!

[Samantha1357]

I *think* weve made progress! Today was a little strange when they first got together. Annabelle would nudge him or sniff him and he would freak and do these weird Binky like jumps while squeeling and grunting (it was SO weird) but she wasnt hurting him she didnt bite him..so I let it go on. Then all of a sudden they both came to me for love..as I was petting them they snuggled closer and Derek laid flat and Annabelle flopped down next to him and laid her head on his head. I ended after a few minutes of cuddles and pets

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