Bonding my boys… well, maybe!

[LBJ10]

So it has been a month since Wooly was neutered and I have decided to start the bonding process. I am going to start out with shared play times to see how things go first. I guess I will use this thread to kind of document what’s going on.

So here’s what happened last night.

I let Leopold join Wooly after Wooly had been out playing for some time. Of course, he went straight for him and starting his whole humping thing. He followed Wooly around humping him at least a dozen times. I tried to keep him from stepping on Wooly’s head while he was doing it since Leopold doesn’t seem to care which end he has. You guys said that I would just have to let Leopold get it out of his system, but sheesh! Talk about energizer bunnies! At one point I tried distracting Leopold with a banana chip. He was so focused on Wooly though that I had to shove it under his nose before he even noticed. He took it from me but before I could give one to Wooly, Wooly had ran up to Leopold and snatched the banana chip from his mouth! Haha! So I gave Leopold the one that was intended for Wooly. Then the humping continued. Up until this point though, Wooly was acting very submissive. But after the banana chip thing, Leopold tried humping Wooly again and Wooly thumped at him. So I could tell he had had enough. I put them away thinking maybe Wooly was getting upset.

Well, Wooly was upset and he let me know it this morning. Boy did he express his displeasure in me! I went to see him like I usually do and he wanted nothing to do with me! Silly bunny.

[Deleted User]

Side-by-side housing might work for yours to ease them into the bonding and take some of the over-rexcitement down a notch. Also a stunt double is worth a try if the humping is very extreme.

[LBJ10]

They are already side by side, they have been since shortly after bringing Wooly home (he stayed out in the living room for a little while).

[Deleted User]

In that case I would just intervene a little when the humping gets very intense, by placing the humping bunny onto a stunt double and after a few times the rabbit may learn that this is what happens. Some mounting is fine though.

[LBJ10]

Alright, so the last couple of days we have taken down the baby gate and allowed the two of them venture out into the living room together. They have both been out to play in the living room before (separately), but it isn’t their normal area. So I guess you could call it semi-neutral territory. Well anyway, I thought I would give an update on their progress. While out in the living room, they seem to be doing better. Yes, there is definitely a two bunny choo-choo train going on most of the time (with Leopold being the caboose), but there is a lot less mounting. I don’t know if it is because Wooly put his foot down (literally, by thumping at Leopold when he tried to mount him) or if it is because they are in this semi-neutral territory. They haven’t had a single fight yet, regardless of where they are located. Oddly, Leopold has been trying to groom Wooly, although it is somewhat abrasive. So we will keep doing this for awhile and hopefully they will be able to get to the point where they aren’t worried about what the other is doing. Then, what would be the next step? Try feeding them together to see how they are when food is involved?

[Deleted User]

You can try feeding them together right now already, it may just speed things along. If there are no fighting starts, you could let them spend some hours daily in a neutral pen, or semi-neutral confined space even, which will give them opportunity to settle down with each other.

[LBJ10]

Would you suggest giving them pellets? They have hay out for them, but when they are out together they could really care less about it. They are just too focused on each other.

[LBJ10]

I think we just had a little bit of a break through! I had just sent them back to their room because they were being naughty out in the living room. I was watching them and Leopold was abrasively grooming Wooly like he has been the last few play sessions. He licked around his eyes and then went for his back. Then he pulled a tuft of fur out of Wooly’s back! I stopped Leopold and told him he needed to be nice. After awhile, I went out to the living room again. When I came back to check on them, Wooly was busy grooming Leopold’s head! So we have now had reciprocal grooming! I just wish Leopold wasn’t so rough! I am going to try offering them some pellets and treats here in a bit to see what happens.

 

EDIT: Okay, I just checked on them again and you’re not going to believe this! Wooly had hopped inside Leopold’s cage through the open cage door and he was eating the little bit of pellets left over in Leopold’s dish! Leopold was sitting outside the cage and didn’t seem to mind. He then joined Wooly inside the cage, but all he wanted to do was groom Wooly while he was eating. Then Leopold jumped back out of the cage and went to the large box of hay that I had set out for them. When Wooly saw him munching on the hay, he decided to get out of the cage and go have some hay too! I guess this was a double break through!

[LBJ10]

Hmm, maybe I should try to get some pictures.

[LBJ10]

Okay, I took a couple of pictures. They always stop what they’re doing when they see me standing in the doorway with the camera, go figure. So here they are at the hay box, you will have to pardon their mess.

Read my update that I posted above, I would like to know what people think.

 

[jerseygirl]

I think you’re on your way to a quick bond to be honest. : ) No need to rush it though.
More times with positive interaction should have these 2 pretty comfy around one another. So eating together, play, side by side petting etc. Just more of what you’re doing really. You’ll find more and more they’ll just spend time hanging out near each other. The grooming might look a bit rough but they’ll sort out how to finesse things. lol It’s great that Leopold has already moved to this interaction rather then the humping. I agree with Petzy, it was probably due to excitement. It might still crop up but the more time they spend together the more they learn what the other will tolerate. They’re both learning these social skills again.

[Bren]

wow, I only hope my bunnies will bond as quick as yours are!  Sounds like you are doing all the right things! I will be keeping track…..I have at least a week or so until I start mine. They are able to see each other right now and I change them in and out of each others area, but will wait a bit to introduce them personally.

[LBJ10]

They are out right now and seem to be doing well. They have been eating hay side by side and grooming each other. When they aren’t doing that, they are pretty much going about their own business. Leopold was playing with some toys and Wooly was (*sigh*) exploring Leopold’s cage again. He is really obsessed with going in there, not sure why. Maybe he thinks Leopold has a better cage than he does!

[jerseygirl]

What’s your plans with their habitats? Are you moving them into one of them or doing an over-haul, creating a new habitat for them?

Keep an eye on things that might trigger some fighting. Hidey boxes, litter boxes etc. But so far so good by the sounds. The longer times they spend together like this the more you’ll know how’ll they do being put together 24/7 to cement the bond.

[LBJ10]

If you look under the Habitats section, I have a thread about building a new habitat for them. Basically, my husband wants to build them a cabinet style hutch that they can live together in. We want to make sure they are getting along first before he actually builds the silly thing (I say silly because my husband has to make everything a certain way that at times seems a bit overboard). Once he has it built, then we plan on introducing it to them during some play sessions. Hopefully, they can make the transition after that.
As for hide boxes, they mostly just have cardboard boxes right now that they use. Wooly was actually sitting inside one tonight and Leopold decided it would be a good idea to push it around. Wooly just sat there and enjoyed the ride. They have their own litter boxes in their cages, plus one that is out in the room. Usually what happens is if one gets into the litter box, the other follows. Nothing about it seems confrontational, they just follow each other in and out of the litter box. Does that sound normal?

[jerseygirl]

Oh yes, i forgot about the habitat.
They sound to be enjoying each others comoany. Be prepared for some dual bunny antics. I don’t know what it is but newly bonded buns seem to tag team and get into mischief.

As for hide boxes, they mostly just have cardboard boxes right now that they use. Wooly was actually sitting inside one tonight and Leopold decided it would be a good idea to push it around. Wooly just sat there and enjoyed the ride.

heheheh! That would have been a sight!

[LBJ10]

Posted By jerseygirl on 03/02/2011 02:54 AM
Oh yes, i forgot about the habitat.
They sound to be enjoying each others comoany. Be prepared for some dual bunny antics. I don’t know what it is but newly bonded buns seem to tag team and get into mischief.

Why does the thought of this not surprise me?

[LBJ10]

We have some monkey see, monkey do going on tonight. Leopold is playing the the stuffed banana, so Wooly wants to play with it. Leopold is chewing on the cardboard box, so Wooly wants to chew on it. Leopold is eating hay, so Wooly wants to eat some. See a pattern here?

[Deleted User]

This should be the beginning of a good bond. If they had issues with each other they would not allow the other bunny to use the same toys.

[LBJ10]

Well I guess that is a good sign then. I think it’s kind of cute, almost as if Wooly looks up to Leopold. They were playing together pretty peacefully tonight. Bed time was when the trouble started though. Oh my, what a fuss! They didn’t want to get back in their cages despite the tasty pellets I had just placed in their dishes. They wanted to stay out and be together, I felt so bad! Do you think they miss each other at night?

[LBJ10]

Oh my gosh, I have barely heard a peep out of them tonight.

[LBJ10]

Just witnessed some serious snuggling! I guess my husband had better get a move on with that new hutch!

[LBJ10]

Oh my gosh! We also had coordinated phone book ripping! So cute!

[Monkeybun]

Sounds like it is going well

[LBJ10]

I think so too! Or at least I hope so! I have noticed that Wooly has been a bit more defensive with me lately though and I’m wondering if it is because he has gotten used to telling Leopold to back off. Usually the problem is at bedtime, when they need to get back in their cages. Wooly will try to avoid being picked up (I have to pick him up to put him in his cage) and then when I place him in his cage he starts thumping the floor of his cage. Ugh!

[jerseygirl]

Could you use something else to pick him up? Would he jump into a box then you can take that over to his cage? That way is distances you a little, hopefully so he doesn’t make a direct connection between your hands and something he doesn’t like (being put in at night).

btw, I’m afraid I just cannot believe the bonding is going this well until there is some photographic proof.

[jerseygirl]

Having trouble editing my last post, so I’ll just add another…

Is there much territoriality happening over cages? Could you start shutting them in together at night now? i.e.move onto cementing phase. This way, they would be fully bonded by the time the new habitat is ready.

[LBJ10]

I will have to try to sneak up on them to get pictures. They see me peeking around the corner with the camera and automatically stop what they are doing!

I have thought about shutting them both inside Leopold’s cage since the cage is bigger. Wooly has jumped inside numerous times while Leopold was outside the cage and Leopold didn’t really seem to mind. I worry though because it is a multi-level cage, but the levels aren’t full levels. I’m scared that Leopold might shove Wooly off an edge, either accidentally or intentionally. The cabinet my husband is building will have full levels with just a hole where the ramp goes. Is this a valid concern? Or am I just being over protective?

[jerseygirl]

If you’re worried then it’s no problem to wait. The cementing phase does take some supervision and there may be a few little tiffs when in an enclosed space. So go with what makes you feel most comfortable really.

[LBJ10]

Okay, here is some video evidence for you. Sorry for the bad angle, I was having to peek around the door frame.

s1191.photobucket.com/albums/z464/LBJ_10/

[Bren]

OMG, I can’t wait for my buns to be doing that!  Congrats, they are adorable!

[LBJ10]

Thanks! I think it was pure luck really. We brought Wooly home unexpectedly and we weren’t sure how Leopold would react to another bunny in the house. They have been doing so well that I am still somewhat in disbelief. The video doesn’t show reciprocal grooming going on, but they do trade off so I am really impressed.

[jerseygirl]

CUTE! They are doing just fine. Question; does Wooly have white or lighter colour belly fur? I can sort of see lighter fur under his feet, just wondering about the belly also.

[LBJ10]

Yes, it is sort of hard to see because it is typically obscured by his long fur, but his belly is a lighter gray and so are the bottoms of his feet. He did have a brownish patch on the back of his neck when he was younger, but that has faded and now looks more like a dark gray. Also, now that he is older, some silver hairs (sort of like guard hairs) have filtered in on his back. So I guess this is his true coat now. You can’t see it too well in pictures though, they don’t tend to show up.

[LBJ10]

Thought I would give a bit of an update.

My boys were out playing tonight as usual. My husband is taking FOREVER with their new hutch, it’s driving me crazy. Anyway, it was time for them to go to bed so I grabbed Leopold’s bowl and put his pellets in it to try and entice him to get in his cage. Both rabbits heard me and came running. I placed the bowl inside Leopold’s cage and Leopold hopped right in… followed by Wooly. I shrugged and closed the cage door. So there they were peacefully sharing the pellets in Leopold’s bowl. I was highly debating letting them stay together over night, but I still worry that Wooly will get hurt since the top level of the cage is pretty high up considering his size. So after a little while, I reached in and pulled Wooly out. Or course, I got barked at. He obviously didn’t want to say goodbye to Leopold just yet. He seemed to forget about it though when I put him in his own cage where his bowl was waiting for him, complete with pellets. Silly rabbits.

[LittlePuffyTail]

This is inspiration for me since I’m currently working with my two boys as well. How old are your guys?

[LBJ10]

Let’s see, Wooly is about 10 months or so and Leopold is 1 year 3 months. They don’t have a huge age difference, so maybe that is part of it. Or maybe Leopold is just so easy going that he doesn’t care. I was told that Holland lops can be mellow. Then again… he was the one on the humping craze when we first started letting them be together. Go figure.

[LittlePuffyTail]

My lop is also the humper. I’m very surprised that he wants to be dominant bunny since he is the most mellow, easy-going of my three. I also thought it would be my brat bunny (Stormy). My boys are 7 and 4. A bit of an age difference from yours.

[LBJ10]

I have an update! It was bedtime last night, it was late and those little brats were still not ready to settle down. I put some food in Leopold’s bowl and placed it inside his cage and then left the room (they won’t get in if they think I’m watching). I waited a little bit and then checked on them. Both were inside Leopold’s cage eating so I raced in and shut the door! Haha! Wooly seemed content and when I tried to pick him up to put him in his own cage he grunted at me and tried to hide under Leopold. I was tired so I was like “fine”. I decided to leave them together overnight, despite my fears. Well… we didn’t hear a peep out of them all night. When I went to check on them this morning, they were both just sitting there calmly and (of course) staring at me as if I had some problem. I went to class and came back. Still seem fine. I did notice Wooly was looking a little confused about Leopold’s water bottle though. I didn’t think he wouldn’t be able to figure it out. I grabbed Wooly’s water bottle and held it there for him so he could get a drink. I feel bad now. LOL! Poor thing. Anyway, they are out now so I think we’re good. I’m not sure if I want to let Wooly have another sleepover with Leopold tonight or not. They seemed fine, but I don’t want to force it either.

[LBJ10]

Well, they are in separate cages tonight. I decided not to push it. They will see each other soon enough.

[LittlePuffyTail]

When I went to check on them this morning, they were both just sitting there calmly and (of course) staring at me as if I had some problem.

This made me really laugh!!! Gotta love that look!

[LBJ10]

It’s so true though! Haha! Stupid rabbits. =p

My boys spent another night together last night. I attached Wooly’s water bottle to the side of the cage so that way he could get a drink. It was another uneventful night, so I’m not worried at all now about them living together once their new house is done.

[LBJ10]

Wooly thumped at Leopold this evening when I was getting the treat bag out. I think he thought Leopold was going to get something and he wouldn’t. They each got a treat though and when Wooly was finished with his, he turned to Leopold and started licking around his chin and mouth. Looking for crumbs, maybe? Leopold just held his head up while Wooly was doing it. This behavior shouldn’t be any cause for concern, should it? They have no problem sharing food from the same bowl or hay from their box. I will even put the greens out in a big pile for them and they seem fine. It’s mostly just a game of who can munch the fastest.

[LBJ10]

I noticed something else today. I went to pet them before I let them out this morning. I reached into the cage and petted Wooly on the head, then Leopold, then back to Wooly, then back to Leopold. Every time I switched from Leopold to Wooly, Leopold would stick his head over there as if he was trying to place his head in the path of my hand while I was petting Wooly. If you read the post directly above this one, this is the second time I have witnessed some kind of jealousy. Are either of these scenarios a concern? Or is this just normal behavior between two bonded bunnies?

[LBJ10]

Oh goodness! We had a lot of marking going on tonight, yuck! Stupid me, I bought a new litter box for them and I placed it down on the floor. Leopold couldn’t even wait for me to get it all the way down before he jumped inside. Not two seconds later and he had left poops in there. Then Wooly got in and made poops. Then Leopold, then Wooly, then things started to smell so I know someone sprayed. *sigh*

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