Bonding Journal: A&B

[Deleted User]

Date 1: 7ish minutes in a neutral room with an xpen set up. A lot of humping from Asriel straight out of the gate. Bombur just sat there and took it the first few times, then he started appearing to be in distress. He started climbing on me and sitting in my lap to avoid Asriel.Asriel attempted a few frontal humps, which I quickly pushed him off. Bombur eventually started to hump back. After this initial humping, they kept shoving their noses under each other, but neither would comply. Asriel started humping again, and this time pulled fur. I know you should end on a positive note, but Bombur seemed visibly stressed at the fur pulling, so I separated immediately. Will try for another 5-10 minutes tomorrow in the same setup. Suggestions and comments are welcome

[Harley&Thumper]

I would recommend petting both of them the next time they both ask to be groomed at the same time. It usually helps diffuse the tension.

[DanaNM]

That doesn’t sound too bad, but you also might try a short stress session! Car ride or washing machine works wonders. I think sometimes people resort to stress when things get really bad, but you might prevent them from ever getting there if you stress right away.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Deleted User]

A car ride might be doable. I’d do it on the washing machine, but the people we live with have an elderly dog in the laundry room. Asriel thumps like crazy if your clothes even smell like her.

How would I go about doing it in the car? Putting them in a big cardboard box?

[DanaNM]

I have used a large plastic bin with some cube grids as a lid, but I think a large box would work too! It’s a good idea to have a helper to drive while you sit in back with the buns. I just put a towel and some hay on the bottom. If your box is very large you may not need a lid. Bertha is so tall she can peek out and tries to jump out without a lid there.

Have the driver ready to go, pop them in the bin/box, and get going right away. Usually a 10-20 min drive is good.

Some people use carriers, but I don’t like to, as it is hard to intervene if you need to.

If a car ride isn’t feasible, you could also try walking around the block with them in the same set-up.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Deleted User]

The only thing I’m worried about is Asriel getting loose. He’s such a jumper. No obstacle is too great for him. His top has been closed and he’ll bash his head on it and leap out, if it’s not locked. He’s also really hard to wrangle.

I’m going to try again tonight in the same space. I do worry for Bombur though. He seems to be taking the humping alright for the most part, but Asriel seems so aggressive during them. If you try to pull him off, he clings with all his might. If they do have another stand off in the grooming department, I’ll squish them together and stroke them (though it is really hard with gloves on). I’ve also heard of mashed banana on the forehead? Will this actually work?

My husband kinda nerved me up a bit during it though. He would freak out the second any mounting occurred and gave me weird looks for letting it continue for 10 seconds.

[Harley&Thumper]

You could try grooming them with a paint brush if you can’t groom them with your hands while wearing gloves. The idea is to mix their scents so they think the other one is grooming them. I know most members recommend stopping humping after a few seconds but I have never broken it up unless it’s a reverse mount.

I have no idea about the mashed banana though. that is a trick I never tried.

[Deleted User]

Asriel was very into the reverse mount yesterday, which I stopped immediately. I am curious though, is this excessive humping normal from the start? Like neither one of them wanted to let up. The second they were put into the pen Asriel went right to it, and eventually Bombur started in too. They only stopped for a brief few seconds to have a groom-off.

[Deleted User]

Asriel was very into the reverse mount yesterday, which I stopped immediately. I am curious though, is this excessive humping normal from the start? Like neither one of them wanted to let up. The second they were put into the pen Asriel went right to it, and eventually Bombur started in too. They only stopped for a brief few seconds to have a groom-off.

[Harley&Thumper]

I’m not sure. I can’t recall Thumper ever trying to hump Harley but Harley would occasionally hump Thumper but not as much as your two do.

[DanaNM]

Humping is pretty normal this early on. Can you try to stop it with something other than your body? Like running the vacuum cleaner? Or some other loud noise? Or even a squirt of water? If he’s grabbing on and you pull him off it might be more traumatic than just allowing him to continue…

If your hubby is nervous, get him out of there! It really helps to have all parties supervising calm! The buns definitely feed off of our energy!

I’ve only had luck with banana when they get to a more calm phase. I’ve tried it early on and it tends to just make them crazier and can cause “miscommunication” where they are going for the banana and the other doesn’t realize what’s happening. It is most effective when they are in the “no you groom me!” position. I’ll usually pet them both, then sneak some banana on the head of the one what I expect will be dominant, and press their head down so the other can smell it and start to groom.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Mikey]

When bonding my Blue and Bombur, Blue would hump, and hump, and hump… We would pluck him off, and he would go right back to it. They had very little nipping, chasing, or lunging, just a TON of humping. Once Bombur stopped trying to hump Blue back, they would do nothing but cuddle (lol). So, I would say its very normal for excessive humping in the beginning

Seconding that if your husband is way too nervous, hes not the best help through this. The rabbits could emotionally be feeding off of that and acting differently than if the situation and everyone in it was calm. I had to kick my boyfriend out of sessions for the same reason.

[Deleted User]

That’s comforting to know about the humping! Like they wouldn’t leave this one spot. You’d push one off and the other would start in. I had a dustpan in the pen with me in case fights started, and I never thought to use it to separate the humping.
I’ll definitely get hubs out of there. He was mainly my gatekeeper if I needed to get one out quickly. They trust me more than him anyways cause I do everything for them and spend like every spare second with them xD so maybe they would feel more comfortable that way.

[Deleted User]

Definitely no chasing, nipping, or lunging. Just ALL of the humping. I guess its good it’s not any of those? Odd question, Bombur flattened like a pancake during all of the humping, bad?

[Deleted User]

Since I was an epic fail of a bonding attempt, ya might not want my input XD

I think the humping is normal, though I’m sure it seems like too much for you guys. I know that I was NOT thrilled at watching my sweet little Ophelia rapidly thrusting Quincy’s bum…. I’m like ahhhhhh this is so uncomfortable to watch XD

I hear ya on the car rides. Ophelia is such a pain because she won’t give up on getting out of something until she’s out. I tried the car rides with them in a laundry basket, and I sat in the trunk (SUV) and Ophelia literally just jumped out of the bin and was wandering around the trunk of the car. lol. Quincy was frozen solid and refused to move, but I couldn’t even get Ophelia to sit still so I could smush them. So that was a complete fail.

Bonding is super stressful, so don’t feel bad if you aren’t comfortable continuing. They will go to a bonder soon (March, right?) and you won’t have to worry yourself with it! I am not good at hiding my emotions, and I’m sure that I probably put off bad vibes when I was trying my bonding. I just kept pushing myself to not miss a day, and I think that it just got quickly overwhelming. So, take some time if you need it, don’t push yourself (or hubs)

[Deleted User]

BN: I just had the image of you trying to keep Ophelia’s ish together in the trunk of a car and I laughed so hard everyone in the office just stared at me.. oops!
The bonder is in March, I have to confirm with her in another week to make sure she’s not fostering any buns at the time. I think I’m going to try on my own for a day or two, as they are more relaxed around me. Assuming they ever figure out who the boss is, I’ll keep going, and if it ends up with a fight, then I’ll let her do her thing.

[Deleted User]

lmao I was literally in the back of the car, covered in fur, trying to wrangle a 3lb bunny to sit still… I bet that was quite a sight for other drivers on the road XD

[DanaNM]

I think flattening out is a good sign as it means he’s submitting to it. 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Alex&Clary]

I have only used this method one time and I am not done with it yet but this seems to work for anyone who tries it, its called micro space bonding, heres the link to the original blog post
https://bandoliersnbunnies.wordpress.com/2014/09/07/bunny-bonding-blues-micro-space-bonding/
I think its worth a shot, I started with one bun terrified of the other, and B pulling hair and nipping TW, but now they are together flooped out and grooming each other and themselves. If you want more info you can look at my bonding journal, but worth a read and a try!

[Mikey]

Flattening is a good sign in that he is showing that he is willing to submit if he has to. Just part of natural progression!

[Deleted User]

Good to know! Bombur would very much be a submissive bun. I know you can never tell for sure, but he’s always been the more gentle and kind hearted of the two. Not that Asriel isn’t sweet at times, but he really is more of the take control kind of bun.

[Author]

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