Bonding Jack and Sandra

[BearMom]

My boy, Jack, picked out a lovely partner while bunny dating and I’m about to start the bonding process. I plan on posting about my progress here, but I’m hoping people here can help with questions along the way.

First, Jack is used to getting lots of time out of his cage in the evening. Is it necessary that they both get out time at the same time? If so, any recommendations for where to have them? Same room in exercise pens? Different rooms?

Thanks!

[BearMom]

I should have mentioned, Jack is approximately 6 years old and neutered. Sandra is a year or two and is spayed. They were both fixed some time ago, so hormones shouldn’t be a problem.

They are living next to each other and that is going great. They sit next to each other (several inch gap between their cages), lots of flopping and grooming. No signs of aggression while in their cages.

They had their first official bonding session this morning. At first they ignored each other and were just looking around. They started checking each other out, but eventually Sandra tried to nip Jack. She mostly seemed nervous and I stopped it and immediately groomed her head. She did end up giving him a tiny nip in the butt a minute later. I stepped in and I don’t think he even noticed.

They spent some time nose to nose where I groomed them both. I maybe should have just let them do that without my petting them, but I was worried about Jack getting nipped. Jack doesn’t have front teeth (removed due to some bad teeth issues, including abscess)… It’s a blessing and a curse. I know he won’t hurt her, but he doesn’t have a good way to defend himself.

He then humped her. I groomed her while he did that and then stopped him after about 10 seconds. It’s pretty funny looking as she is much bigger than him.

I ended the session by smooshing them together and giving them both grooms. Then took them out one at a time and gave them a treat. They are back to sitting by each other in their cages.

Anyway thoughts or advice will be appreciated.

[BearMom]

Here is a picture of them during their second date at the rescue! 

[joea64]

I don’t know a whole lot about the technicalities of bonding myself – I adopted an already-bonded pair – but I do know that you need to do your bonding sessions in a neutral area (that is, one not marked as territory by either rabbit). Also, I don’t think you should stop either bun if they nip the other (as opposed to actually biting or exhibiting other aggressive behavior); nipping is a normal form of communication, and mounting is also normal in the bonding process (it’s part of establishing the social hierarchy). That said, it sounds as if the first session did go pretty well.

[DanaNM]

Hi there! Congrats on your new bun! I recommend perusing the pinned bonding info on this forum for more detail. Sounds like you are off to a good start with the dates at the shelter.

It is recommended to let the new bun settle in to your home for at least 1 week, and then do what’s called pre-bonding for at least another week or two (some recommend up a month). During pre-bonding you can either swap litter boxes and toys, or swap the buns between each others’ cage every day or two (I prefer this method, because it helps the buns loose track of what is “their” territory.

As far as play time, you should not let them out in the same area at the same time until they are bonded. Until they are bonded, they should only be able to interact with each other when they are having bonding sessions in neutral territory (with your supervision). So for now, you can either let them out one at a time for exercise, or you can divide the room in half, with a buffer of 4-6 inches, or a fence that they can’t nip through. I ended up buying an extra x-pen during bonding to do this in my apartment. The rescue might even be able to loan you some temporary fencing, but x-pens are pretty affordable on Amazon. If you do get one, get a bit taller than you think you need (about 36″ should be enough).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

Thank you both! I am going to give them a few more days of living next to each other before their next date. I think they will be more used to each other and less scared that way. The advice for using xpens to divide a room (with space so they can’t bite) was so useful! I did that this afternoon so that they could both get out time at the same time, and they loved it. We even did it in the living room which is normally Jack’s territory, and he didn’t seem to mind at all. Lots of binkies from both of them, even at the same time!

[LittlePuffyTail]

Just want to wish you luck in bonding your two cuties!!!!

[DanaNM]

That’s great!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

One thing I’m concerned about is Sandra getting a chance to bite Jack in the face. We haven’t had another date yet, but a couple times while they were both out, she lifted her tail and lunged a bit, like she would bite if she could get to him. Most of the time they are great. They flop next to each other, groom in front of each other… All the sweet things… But this has me a bit nervous. It seems to only happen when something makes her nervous. I don’t have to worry about Jack doing this to her since he doesn’t have front teeth.

Should I really allow her to go at him? How can I tell the difference between a nip I should allow and a potential bite I should stop?

Thanks again!

[DanaNM]

Well, some lunging and nipping is to be expected as they sort out their dominance hierarchy, and some fur pulling is OK. Hard biting is not OK, but most often they get a chunk of fur, and sometimes they lunge without actually biting at all. The thing to watch out for is what happens next. Does Jack back down? Also take note of what is causing her to act that way. Is he asking for grooms (putting his head down)? Asking for grooms is also a dominance display, so if she lunges at him, that’s basically her saying “No way!”. You want to avoid circling and chasing, as those often escalate to an all out brawl (which should be prevented). Lunging is a dominance display, and the female is most often the dominant one in male-female pairs (though not always). I wouldn’t intervene for just lunging, but if Jack doesn’t back down, you want to prevent a fight. If at all possible, try to get them to stop their aggressive interaction without physically touching them. A loud noise or a squirt of water does the trick. Obviously if that doesn’t work you’ll need to stop them physically.

If she was doing this when she was out in “her” territory, I wouldn’t worry too much, as it’s normal for them to be aggressive when not in neutral space (as long as no one can actually bite the other!).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

Things with Jack and Sandra are going well overall. I’ve been doing one bonding session a day, their cages are next to each other, and they play at the same time separated by an x-pen. 

In their cages: Jack was really bad about his litter habits at first, but now he is back to always peeing in his box and only a few “coco puffs” around the cage. She is almost perfect about her litter habits and is that way no matter what. I always feed them where their cages are next to each other and they spend a lot of time hanging out near each other. 

Play Time (separated by x-pen): They both do a ton of zoomies and binkies. Jack does more zoomies and binkies than he used to. Jack has started flopping next to the x-pen near Sandra. If Sandra isn’t eating or running around, she is flopped. They spend some time away from each other (not at the barrier), but they also spend a lot of time checking out what the other is doing and hanging out next to each other. They both spend time on each side of the barrier each night. I switch them half way through out time. 

Bonding: Session every day. Mostly 20-30 minutes, but I did one 1 hour+ session when I had a good block of time and they were doing well. When they first get into the x-pen for bonding, they spend a lot of time trying to figure out where they are/if they can get out. No fighting and lots of brushing past each other during this. Once they get settled in Sandra usually flops and sometimes Jack does too. They both groom in front of each other. Sandra asks Jack for grooms a lot, but he refuses. Sometimes he tries to nip bite her head when she asks, but he doesn’t have teeth so she thinks he is trying to groom and just sits there while he gums her. He gets frustrated and hops away since she doesn’t realize he is trying to be boss, not groom. He’s tried to hump her a few more times, but she DOES NOT like that. She will try to nip him and they start running in a circle. I stop the circling when I see that. What’s funny is that he doesn’t really ask for grooms, and she never humps. They are both trying to be boss, but they try to show it in different ways. I’m hoping Jack gives in and actually grooms her soon. I almost wish she would try to hump him or that he would ask for grooms. They need to figure this out!

Any thoughts? Should I be trying something different? 

[BearMom]

Oh, I almost forgot. I also feed them salad together during bonding sessions. They eat right next to each other with no fighting over food. 

[Deleted User]

I’m currently in a similar dominance stand off in my bonding process. I think we are making progress though! Ophelia is the only one who has tried to mount, and Quincy is not having it. He just froze the first time she did it, and I pushed her off after a few seconds. After that, she tried 3 times more and they all ended in him scampering to get away or turning around to scratch at her (good thing I had my handy dandy dustpan in the way).

For me, I kept pushing Ophelia away if she tried to mount. I know that it is necessary that they establish a hierarchy, but he was very uncomfortable with it and I didn’t want to risk a fight when things were going so well. After a few more sessions of petting them next to each other, they eventually gave in and groomed each other. I still don’t think they have it quite figured out yet, as they both are stubborn when the other presents for grooms, but eventually they do groom each other. So progress! I wish they could just figure it out with grooming and not try to hump…Maybe Ophelia will give in because she has stopped attempting to mount and yesterday’s session was 3 hours. It may just be tile floor insecurity though… We will see what happens when we get to carpet.

Feel free to check out my thread to see if anything there is helpful to you! It’s under Ophelia&Quincy: Love at first sight? (Although I don’t think that’s necessarily the truth, but we are off to a good start!)

[DanaNM]

Try doing longer sessions if you can (as long as they don’t end in circling), coupled with something stressful. You can take them on a short car ride together first, then pop them together for long session in the pen. 

For longer sessions, I find it useful to set a time goal that I think is realistic (45 min, 1 hr, 1.5 hrs, etc), and then end it there if they are doing well. Obviously you might need to cut it shorter if they aren’t doing so well (but still end on a good note). There is a tendency (which I am also guilty of) to push the date until they stop doing well, which isn’t ideal!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

Thanks for the advice! I’m definitely checking out the other bonding posts here and reading about other’s experience is really helpful.

Today was a bit rough. I did a session around dinner time, so I started off with giving them salad. They did well for about 20 minutes, and then Sandra started asking for grooms and Jack lunged at her. That freaked her out so she started going after him, and it turned into them circling. I made loud noises and pushed them apart, but as soon as I let one go, they lunged at the other. I ended up swooping Jack out after Sandra bit me mid lunge. She broke skin, but I think as soon as she realized she made contact, she stopped. She wasn’t expecting something near her mouth as she was still a foot away from Jack, mid lunge.

I held Jack and gave him some cuddles and then pet Sandra. After calming them down, I put them back together, but I stayed in the pen. They seem to feel less anxious when I’m in there… Or maybe they just know they won’t be able to fight if I’m right there. They ended up both grooming themselves and flopping. I let the calm behavior go about another 30 minutes, and then ended it by putting apple sauce (Unsweetened!) on Sandra’s head and Jack liked it off. She really enjoyed that.

They then got out time in the separated living room and both had a good time.

I think the fight was my fault. I put in two litter boxes for them since I was planning on a long session, and I think it made them extra territorial.

Neither bun got hurt and the rest of the session was fine. Hopefully tomorrow goes better.

[DanaNM]

Ah yes, just saw your post on the other thread! Litter box could very likely have been the cause. Plus time of day can matter…. mine are most active around dinner time, so that can make for some “exciting” sessions.

I would wait until sessions are at least 2 or 3 hours with no chasing or scuffles to add boxes, and then make sure they are either new, or cleaned thoroughly with vinegar.

Sounds like you managed it well though!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

Thanks for the advice! I will wait on boxes for sure. 

We are in the middle of what will hopefully be a long session today. An hour so far and all is well. 

They sure do like eating together At first I was worried that they would get in a fight when only a few pieces of food was left, but when it’s running low they don’t seem to care much who finishes it. 

They both really hate the porch floors we are on today. I think that is helping. As long as the weather is good enough for the three season porch, I think this is the place for bonding for a while. 

[Deleted User]

How did yesterdays session go?

[BearMom]

It ended up going pretty well! Over 3 hours and only a couple scuffles around the 2.5 hour mark that ended without me having to touch either bunny. Once I stomped my foot as if I was thumping, and that sure got their attention! They flopped next to each other several times, and Jack even gave Sandra a tiny bit of grooms once (without apple sauce on her head)! He has also stopped trying to hump her, which is good because that really sets her off.

[Deleted User]

That’s good! I know the humping was an issue for us too, Ophelia has stopped but hopefully that won’t resume once they are placed on carpet and not slippery tile!

[BearMom]

Another three hour session today that went well for the most part, but I’m hoping to see more changes as we go forward. I know we’ve only been at this a week and a half, but it feels like we are at a bit of a standstill.

Not a ton of aggression today, but what we did have started pretty early in the session. They seemed more cranky today. I had three events completely book my schedule yesterday, so neither got run time. I’m hoping that today’s attitudes were due to not getting out time the day before. I gave them play time this morning, which I hoped would help with the afternoon bonding session… It’s hard to tell why they were punks.

Sandra seems to get set off by Jack going near her rear, and Jack gets upset if Sandra moves too quickly or if she runs towards him. Jack initiated more issues today, but it didn’t seem to take much to get Sandra nippy.

They didn’t spend a lot of time next to each other today either. They were both pretty tired. They flopped on opposite sides and fell asleep for quite a while. I did give them their salads together and they don’t mind smooshing up to eat. If only I could have them constantly eating while together 😛

Still stuck with both thinking they should be boss and an annoyed Jack with Sandra asking for grooms.

[DanaNM]

I know that story…. sounds like Bertha and Moose. Moose had to learn to be a gentleman.

Patience is key, and I know that gets said a lot on here! Sleeping in the presence of one another is a good sign, even if they aren’t snuggling, because it shows they do trust each other at least a little.

Bonding typically progresses in steps (rather small gradual improvements), and that has held true in my experience. Seems like several dates would happen with no progress, and then all of the sudden they would snuggle and flop. Then another week with no change, then more progress.

So yeah, it can be maddeningly slow, but sounds like you are doing ok!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Deleted User]

Stick with it, it will pay off! I know It sucks… you feel like more should be happening by now right?!

I’m still working with my two. But, I will tell you this! I added litter boxes the other day after 4 hours being together and that caused a fight ….. Inside I was screaming… “dammit!!! Why why why!!!!” I thought it was surely going to be a step back and that we would have even more trust issues. But, the next day when I put them together (yesterday) they actually did great! I would almost go as far as saying that we had progress. They were very snuggly and kept grooming each other a ton, so I decided I would let them kick it unsupervised (with me nearby, checking on them every 15 seconds lol). They were together for about 4 hours and only one minor issue, with a quick nip at each other but other than that they spent a lot of time snuggling, grooming, and eating together.

They still show some aggression, if either bun hops toward the other they both sink down with their tails up, but then they shove their heads together and calm down. It’s kinda silly lol.

I simply don’t have the time on my hands to marathon. I am 1 week in and I completely expect it to be a full month before I am comfortable having them together free roam. I know these things take time, and I am willing to do it for an extended period so that I know they are really, truly cemented.

[BearMom]

Thanks for the advice, you guys are so right!

Last night went much better. No aggression bad enough that I felt like I had to step in and they are spending more time together. Jack has figured out that he should ask for grooms too, which I think is good. Neither groomed the other, but they went nose to nose for about 5 mins with no fight and then fell asleep like that! Later on Jack went to ask Sandra for grooms and instead she just started grooming herself. Jack feel asleep next to her while she did a grooming session.

I’m so happy that they can ask for grooms without either getting scared and just sit there being ok saying no. They really seemed to really enjoy being together.

[DanaNM]

That is really good! That was a big step for my two too! Being able to refuse grooming and have it be OK.

Even now that they are bonded, they both groom each other, but usually not when the other one asks! Stubborn buns :p

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

That is really good! That was a big step for my two too! Being able to refuse grooming and have it be OK.

Even now that they are bonded, they both groom each other, but usually not when the other one asks! Stubborn buns :p

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

Things have been going a little bit slower lately, but there are a couple reasons for that. First is just that my schedule got unexpectedly busy, so there were a couple days I had to take off. Then I decided to move where we are doing bonding to the dining room, which I think is closer to semi-neutral territory. Neither one hangs out here because there are no rugs (don’t step on the lava!), but they can see their regular play area (the living room) from the dining room. There has been a bit more nipping and less cuddling, but overall things are good here. I feel like we went back a step, and I’m just waiting to get back to them asking for grooms and cuddling again. I don’t want to move them back to the kitchen as they aren’t really fighting. They aren’t as cuddly/interested in each other at the moment, but it’s much easier for me to bond them in this location and give them longer bonding sessions. My hope is that with another couple sessions they will get past the new location and get back to where they were in the kitchen.

One other complication, and part of why I haven’t been doing super long bonding sessions, is that I found some pus in Jack’s mouth from what we thought was a fully healed abscess. He has no front teeth because he had really bad teeth issues and a really bad/huge abscess when we first got him. He has been a trooper though it all. He probably feels better with it draining, according to the vet. Hopefully how it is healing from the inside out. I was actually his foster mom before we ended up deciding to adopt him. After nursing him through surgeries and abscesses for over 6 months, including a couple times where no one was sure he would make it, there was no way we could let this love bug go.

Jack is doing well even with the bit of abscess. It’s not a huge surprise to find it again and our vet said it’s ok to keep up with bonding as long as he isn’t stressed. We got him right back on antibiotics and he goes in on Friday to re-evaluate. It’s nothing compared to what he has dealt with before and he is acting normal in every other way health wise. We think part of why he is doing so well is that he had just got used to a certain level of pain/discomfort as it was obvious he had been in a bad situation for years before making it to the rescue. We think he will be fine, but at this point we think it’s time to try a new antibiotic as we’ve been trying, and failing, to keep this under control with baytril too long now.

I don’t want to take him away from Sandra as he really does seem to enjoy her company. If anything he has just become more active and happy since we have had her. We’ll just make sure these are laid back bonding sessions with lots of love and encouragement.

[BearMom]

Jack and Sandra had a nice bonding session last night. They were together 3 hours, and I was even able to be out of the pen for an hour of that just watching from the outside. The flopped near each other and fell asleep. So cute!

I’ve noticed that the thing that seems to get them arguing is when Sandra runs up to Jack to ask for grooms. If she is already next to him and does it, he just asks for grooms too and they have a standoff that usually ends in them just grooming themselves. Jack just doesn’t seem to like her running up to him.

They are making progress and Jack is feeling well. Lots of binkies from both of them.

[Deleted User]

Sorry to hear about Jack’s abscess! Glad he is acting well and hopefully you guys can find a remedy for this that will be more permanent!

Doesn’t it feel so great to feel like you can walk away and not have to watch with hawk eyes for quarreling bunnies? I had one session like that, unfortunately it’s gone back to complete supervision ….

Both of mine are also wary of the other running up to them. They’ll both sink to the ground and then raise their tails, like they’re going to attack! They usually don’t, and if they get nippy then I clap or give a shout to run them off of each other. 3 hours with no fights is good!

[DanaNM]

All of that sounds good, it’s very normal to take a step backward when you move to semi-neutral.

And sorry to hear about Jack’s abscess! Idk if you saw my thread, but my Moose has been dealing with an abscess as well. Turns out he had a rotten tooth during the whole time we had him (including during bonding)! Now that it’s removed and he’s feeling better, he has been much more affectionate towards Bertha. Poor guy must have been in too much pain to groom her very much. Moose has been getting sub-Q penicillin injections, so your vet might want you to switch to that instead.

Moose was the one who would run up to Bertha, which she was not a fan of because she was worried he was going to try to mount. Now that they are bonded she doesn’t care though. He knows his best chance of getting grooms is to sneak in when Bertha is already grooming herself, so he’ll dive under her when she’s cleaning her face, or eating cecals, in the hopes that she’ll just start grooming him instead! It’s pretty silly

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

Oh my goodness! No, I didn’t see that post! These poor bunnies and their abscesses. At one point, Jack had one larger than a golf ball on his face. No matter what we did, it just wouldn’t go away. We tried to keep it open, but no matter what was used it would close up or Jack would pull out the bandages. At one point the vet thought he wasn’t going to make it and just wanted to give him the best end of life care possible. Then surprise! One day the giant abscess just burst. There was gross puss everywhere. But from then on, it healed from the inside out and ended up going away completely. We think that might be what is happening with his current abscess. Funny thing is it never seemed to bother him. He would run around and play even with this big thing on his face. If it wasn’t for his LOVE of food though, no way we would still have him. After one of his surgeries he went into shock and his temp dropped. He loves food so much that even when in that state, I could get him to at least eat critical care off my finger. What a strong boy!

How often does Moose get the penicillin injections? That’s one option my vet and I have talked about before and I think might be good to try. I’ve also been talking to some of the people I know at the rescue, and they said Zithromax(sp?) has worked well for them with abscesses. That might be worth trying too. Should find out more on Friday when we get him in.

[Deleted User]

Awww so sad! He’s such a trooper!!

[DanaNM]

OMG! That’s crazy. Bunnies are sooooo good at disguising symptoms, and Moose is such a good eater too! He started eating right away after his tooth extractions, and loooooves licking critical care off a plate.

He get’s an injection every other day. The vet showed me how to do it, so I do it at home. Right now the plan is for him to be on the penicillin until we re-check his teeth/abscess in a couple weeks. He has to go under anesthesia since it was a molar issue.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

Jack and Sandra have been getting a break from bonding while we figure out the health stuff for Jack.

Jack started on Zithromax on Friday, but didn’t respond great to it. My vet warned me that he could have a reduced appetite and I’ve read stories about other buns having problems with it. Saturday morning he showed very little interest in food and his poops were the most tiny things I’ve ever seen. He was still popping them out, but they were so small! I called the vet’s office and the tech recommended I stop the meds – our rabbit vet wasn’t back in the office until Tuesday. He never did stop eating or pooping, but I was too concerned to keep up with the meds without talking to the vet. He ended up eating at least as much as he usually does, just at a slower pace.

Anyway, I got to talk to the vet yesterday and she had me put him back on the med, but at a lower dose. I guess this not uncommon and for some buns it just takes being on the med a couple days and then they adjust to it. She said that as long as he was willing to eat some, we should push through as this is a really powerful drug and is good at treating stuff that has been hard to cure.

He got his half dose last night and his tummy seemed upset for a little bit, but an hour later he was fine!!! So fingers crossed this med actually works and we can get back to bonding.

[DanaNM]

Poor little man. Moose’s poops have been getting smaller from the penicillin, but his appetite is still good…. He still needs his pain meds though, otherwise he won’t eat hay, so unfortunately looks like he’s going to need more procedures.
(((Jack)))

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

I’m so sorry! I hope Moose feels better soon. 

It’s still unclear if this treatment will work for Jack. I really hope so, but I’m worried about him. He’s had a really wet nose since we took him into the vet last, as if it got irritated when they were cleaning out his abscess. Seems strange though that it would still be this wet. 

Our poor bunnies! They just need to feel better soon. 

[BearMom]

I’m so sorry! I hope Moose feels better soon. 

It’s still unclear if this treatment will work for Jack. I really hope so, but I’m worried about him. He’s had a really wet nose since we took him into the vet last, as if it got irritated when they were cleaning out his abscess. Seems strange though that it would still be this wet. 

Our poor bunnies! They just need to feel better soon. 

[DanaNM]

Not sure if you’ve already tried this, but I’ve also been giving Moose some Bene-bac every couple days, along with extra critical care just to keep his gut really hydrated and full. Figure it might help with all the medications he’s on.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

Thank you! I got some of the bene-bac and he sure does love that stuff!

I went ahead and posted about Jack in the Q & A section of the forum. He has had a super wet nose for the last week. No sneezing, coughing, or anything like that. Just a wet and red nose. Im sure it’s irritated from all the discharge. The discharge is clear and super thin.

I feel like no matter what I do, he is facing another battle 🙁

[BearMom]

Jack and Sandra have had a break from bonding for the last couple weeks. Turns out Jack has another abscess where his upper front teeth were We think it has been there the whole time, but now that he is on the new antibiotics it is being attacked and now needs a place for the puss to go, but didn’t have a drainage spot. It swelled up and was giving him a red and runny nose. The vet got some of the puss out, but he has another surgery this Friday to do a really good cleanup and hopefully leave a nice place for it to drain while it heals. The good news is that the abscess in his lower jaw seems to be gone now! So the meds seem to be doing their job.

Anyway, even though I haven’t been bonding them, they are always by each other. Their cages are next to each other and when they get play time they are separated by an x-pen in my livingroom. Until a couple days ago I lined the x-pen with nic cubes so that they wouldn’t be able to reach their noses through and nip. My boyfriend did some rearranging and removed the nic cubes… It made me really nervous, but they haven’t been trying to fight so we decided to watch them and see how they did through the bars of the x-pen.

Good news so far! Jack actually groomed Sandra through the x-pen bars last night! And not just 1 lick or gumming her, an actual full grooming session! Her head was wet when he was done. It was so cute! They got a little cranky at each other later when Jack started asking for grooms too and she decided she wasn’t ready for that. She gave a tiny soft nip and he just turned around and hopped away. They really seem to be enjoying each other even if they aren’t having bonding sessions. Maybe all the time where they could see each other, but not worry about fighting, has helped them decide they really love the other! Now we just need to get Jack through this surgery and feeling better, then back to bonding.

[DanaNM]

Poor Jack, wishing him a speeding recovery!

That’s great that they are doing well still. Sounds like they will pick up right where they left off (or even a bit beyond that) once Jack is better.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

Jack had his follow-up appointment last Friday and things went great! No sign of infection and they took out the antibiotic beads that were in his mouth. He is on the antibiotics until Friday when he has one more check-up. Fingers crossed all is fine. I’m really looking forward to getting him off the antibiotics because I think they are still giving him a little tummy troubles.

I have picked up bonding him and Sandra. He seemed to be feeling so well, so I figured it was worth a shot. It’s been almost 2 weeks now, and things are going pretty well. I’m not able to do super long marathon bonding right now, but I think that is ok. They had one fight when I was out of reach. I had been feeling comfortable enough with them to trust walking away and doing things (but could still hear them), but I guess they weren’t quite ready for that. I gave them a couple days off after that, but now they are even better. Jack regularly grooms Sandra and Sandra has finally started grooming Jack. She will only groom his ears though, not the top of his head! How odd is that?

I’m at the point where they can be together for a few hours. Sometimes at the beginning of the session there is some tension and that is when they are most likely to get into a scuffle. The biggest issue is when Sandra runs up to Jack to ask for grooms. She is pretty demanding about it – runs up and shoves her head under him. He gets jumpy and runs away, sometimes jumping right over her. He spins around with his tail up, but as long as she doesn’t chase him back, he settles down. Problem is, she thinks he is being aggressive when he is really just being defensive. Then she gets upset and runs after him again and sometimes nips. Really doesn’t seem like she is going for a hard bite, but if I didn’t step in I could see it turning to that. I can usually tell them to calm down and not have to step in, but not always.

Right now they are bonding just a couple feet from where they get out time, which is the same room where they will eventually live together. I’m hoping them doing so well just feet away from where their eventual cage will be is going to help. Right now there is a loveseat where their new cage will be, so that isn’t space either of them have claimed. They also switch where in the livingroom they get to play, with equal time on each side.

Anyway, we are making progress! I hope it keeps moving in a good direction and that the little bit of aggression left goes away. For the most part, it seems like they need to have their little spat right after they get out and then they are ok.

[BearMom]

A couple photos of the babies

[DanaNM]

Awww, that’s great on all counts! Glad Jack is feeling better and glad things are progressing!

Moose is going in for another tooth check under anesthesia tomorrow…. hoping no more extractions but I’m pretty sure they are going to need to do at least one, since last time she wasn’t confident that she got all of the root out of the tooth they pulled.

He and Bertha are otherwise doing great though, lots of snuggles and grooms, and I’ve been teaching Moose some tricks! He’s picked up “spin” really quickly!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BearMom]

Awwwww! They sound so sweet. I can’t wait for Jack and Sandra to get to that point. How did surgery go?

[Author]

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