Bonding issues

[Lunalyies]

Hi all,

I posted on her a few weeks ago about my two rabbits breaking their bond for the third time.

Bond keeps breaking every few weeks

 

The advice I was given that they were probably not bonded and to re start the process.

We waited a few weeks then started again in a netural area using this bonding method as it works well with my territoral female

https://www.tokihut.com/blogs/news/rabbitbonding

We are now three weeks into bonding and have them in a semi netural area.

They mostly get on great but they have a few behaviours which is causes me and maybe them confusion.

Girl rabbit Coco is the dominant one but she doesn’t hump she instead will groom the back of him it kinder looks like she’s nibbling at his fur.

But she also loves grooming his face she will do this a lot and if she bows her head to him and is then ignored she will groom his face sometimes a bit rough around his eyes but he will pull away if it’s a little rough.

Now he will groom her back but only sometimes, she will bow her head to him and he might clean himself a bit before her he has a couple of times tried to groom under her tail but she would jump straight up.

All other behaviour is pretty straight forward eating together seeking each other out and cuddling each other. They have toys and a little box and they are happy to share.

 

Then his morning I’m woken up and find her chasing him. No fur is flying so I watch them and found he is refusing to groom her and now she’s mad. She will nip his bum and chase him a bit then when she lowers her head he will ignore her. At one point he groomed himself for two mins while she was bowed then lay him self down.

Ive reduced the space but he still wont groom her and in fact as I write this she gave him and gave him a quick groom.

I guess to summarize I feel like this is the behaviour which always leads to the fight. Is he potentially confused and thinks he is the dominant one?

I’m not sure how to proceed or even at this point how I know they are fully bonded as it can change so fast.

I was hoping this was the weekend to finally introduce them into their perminant home in a smaller space to expand but I think that’s now off the table.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wick & Fable]

Who is dominant is a discussion they need to work out. It’s not that he is confused, but he is unwilling. You can think of it from the other side, which is she is impatient and stubborn on demanding being groomed despite his disinterest in doing so. For the relationship to progress, one needs to “give in” to the other. There are times where two ‘alphas’ just can’t settle on a dynamic because of both their needs. She is insistent and wants to be groomed and he does not want to groom her. If she opens up more to grooming him and being the submissive one, that will be progress similar to if he gives in and grooms her. It’s sort of a wait and see and if neither gives, they may not work together.

How involved are you in the sessions and with him/her specifically? Sometimes the owner needs to really withdrawal their temptation to pet the rabbits because they need to rely on each other for grooming. When owners fill in the petting gap, while it can keep the peace, it also facilitates the constant expectation and if you’re maintaining either of their expectations for grooming, the stalemate may continue.
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Micro space bonding I do not think is helpful in this specific scenario. It sounds like each other’s presence is not the issue, but interactions around groom requests. Have you tried a small marathon? An elongated time in a “medium sized” enclosure in neutral and go for a couple days, if they allow. If they are not safe together in neutral for long periods of time, I do not recommend it, but if they are, being deprived of you intimately for a couple days may increase their reliance on each other for amicable socialization. When I did this with my buns, I set up a video call and had it on my phones at all times so I could see and jump in when needed (at this point, my buns could be in neutral seemingly indefinitely without issue so I could be more lax in supervision).</p>

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Lunalyies]

Thank you for your reply.

I haven’t been petting then too much as they nipped each other (and me!) If I pet one in front of the other. As they had been getting along great I have been getting some sneaky pets so I’ll stop that immediately.

We also today gave bought a brand new indoor hutch so we will set that up tomorrow and put them in. They will be in the kitchen so they won’t get to much interaction from us. They have been together for three weeks now we started mirco bonding then build up to 1 square meter as girl does have some territory issues and this method helped a lot.

My only concern is we do the small marathon and we end up with the same results of no one really accepting alpha.

Girl rabbit is the first to give in to grooming but also requests it the most? And so far he has made no humping attempts dispite doing so in their first bonding attempt.

It’s all very confusing

 

[Wick & Fable]

You can proceed with whatever method seems most suitable based on your observations. As you mention, you can try it and the concern is it will be the same dynamic– well, you tried!

Humping is common but is not always present in bonding. Neither of my rabbits ever humped.

I understand it seems confusing, but I don’t think it is– you just have two rabbits who are hard set on what they want from the relationship and those wants aren’t super compatible as they are presently. In a standard bond, mutual grooming is common though the proportion can be highly skewed. A dominant rabbit can still groom the other rabbit.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[DanaNM]

I am not personally a fan of the microspace method, as it tends to force the rabbits together and seems to have a lot of issues when expanding to a larger space (in my experience moderating here on the forum). Especially given your history of them, they need to be able to fully express normal behaviors to ensure that their bond is stable in a range of circumstances.

I would go back to neutral but give them a normal sized area, like either an x-pen or 2 x-pens if you’ve got it. By now they are probably really frustrated from being cooped up all the time as well. Chasing can be a normal part of the bonding process as well, so it should be stopped if it goes on too long, but a short chase can be OK as long as it doesn’t lead to a fight.

I’d also be interested to hear more about the behaviors you noticed in neutral that helped you decide they were ready to move to semi-neutral.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Lunalyies]

Hi DanaNM,

Thank you for you reply.

The behaviour I was seeing the netural was them both seeking each other out to sit/lie next too. With Basil(boy) he was also flopping alot something he didn’t do in previous bonding attempts.

They would also both groom each other but Coco would request the most and also give the most. Coco was my original bun she was submissive in the previous bond and would love grooming eyes and ears. She is doing this now but new behaviour is she groom basils lower back and under his tail. First bonding attempt by us he hated this and would stomp but now he seems happier with her doing this and will just hop off if he find it too uncomfortable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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