Bonding is going well, but there are hierarchy issues, feeling a bit stuck.

[Peanut Twi]

Hi there!

Our Female bunny Twilight is 1,5 years old, spayed. She lives with us since a year, free roaming. Our baby boy Peanut is 7-8 months old, neutered, lives with us since 3 months.

PRE-BONDING
So as for pre-bonding, they were living next to each other with separate enclosure for 3 months.

BUNNY-DATES
We are now day 10 with the bonding process.
We started doing bunny dates, first 30 min, and slowly increasing the time and space outside in the garden. Twilight was chasing him, and showing dominance signs but then few days after the chasing decreased and there were lots of ignoring and then they got curious and they were doing fine together (running, binking around, going to nose-to-nose, eating hay, greens together) for several (3-4) hours. So because it was going very well, on day 6 and 7 we could do 7-8 hours without any problem. Peanut was very active the whole time, Twilight was also sleeping. And we decided to do an overnight after seeing they can spend this amount of time together. We made a neutral place in the kitchen.

48+ OVERNIGHTS AND “CEMENTING”
They were already eating together (sharing food) sleeping, cuddling, laying and flopping next to each other, sharing a big new litter box together, he is mirroring her all the time and they groom each other occasionally. Mostly the female is doing the grooming, the male just putting his head down. But the female asks for grooming too and she gets a bit annoyed when he doesn’t give. She diggs few times him.
We did 2 overnights and we are now at 52 hours. Everything is so nice, they are almost always cuddling. Just few negative things.
Few days ago Peanut started to chin everything, also chinning Twilight. There was about half an hour yesterday night when he randomly started to pee everywhere (he didn’t do this before, and he didn’t do since then either) and there were one or two bunny tornado. Before he also tried few times to hump her but she run away. He doesn’t do the humping anymore. Now he is just chinning everything. He also honks, then he jumps next to her to the litterbox and then he is zooming in the kitchen.

Not sure what does these signs means. The chinning, honking, peeing (eventho it was just a moment), not kissing her back just very little. (?)

Besides this few tiffs they seems so sweet with each other, but we aren’t sure if he is claiming now to be dominant? Should we continue with the ”cementing ”? To not separate them anymore and do more overnights until they figure it out who is the dominant?
(We don’t really want to separate them anymore because we see that today there were no tiffs and they are even more cuddly than yesterday. )

Thank you for your help, advice:)

[DanaNM]

Hi there, welcome!

How long ago was the bunny tornado? If it was towards the beginning, and things seem like they have been improving, I think it would be fine to just keep marathoning in that space (with supervision). Really you want them to have been together for 48 hours of no significant aggression (a little nip here and there is OK, but you shouldn’t see scuffling, fur pulling, or fast chasing), with lots of positive behaviors (cuddling, grooming, lots of relaxed behaviors around each other). Mounting is fine, as long as it’s not leading to fights.

I’m thinking the increase in territorial behaviors and dominance displays could be due to the time of day (things always tend to get more active at night), or that the kitchen is less neutral than the garden (or some combo of the two). Sometimes adding litter boxes can also make things a bit tense as well (make sure they are either new or really clean). Oh, and chinning, honking, and peeing everywhere are pretty normal. He could just be marking the territory, or thinking about mounting her. The mounting attempt could have also been a cause for the fight (so she’s saying she’s not going to tolerate that).

It sounds like today they are doing really well so far, so if you are able to keep supervising them, I think it would be good to just keep going in that same area.  I wouldn’t worry so much about who is dominant, sometimes it’s very hard for us humans to tell, but they communicate with each other in their own way as they sort out the terms of their relationship (who does the most grooming, when is mounting acceptable, etc.).

 

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Peanut Twi]

Thank you so much for your reply!! It helped a lot, also for us to not to worry so much.

The tornado was maybe once every day, after we moved the dates to the kitchen,  because it was raining outside a lot and we also wanted to increase the time. But the last tornado was yesterday night. And yes, the kitchen is less neutral place, but we cleaned it well and changed a bit. Still, she knows where she is.

Also, the litterbox is new, but the mounting started after we put it. But thankfully that didn’t happen since 2 days.

And yes, he gets more active with this behaviours during the night!

We are waiting how is going to be tonight. Do you think with time this will time? His energy level is also different, can be also this the “issue”? That he wants to play more and she is just sleeping more.

Also do you think that because he is just 6-7 month old, he feels like a baby, that’s why he doesn’t groom her back? Or it’s something connecting with the dominance thing? Because we were sure that she will be the stubborn one.

Also, what would you say, when is the time to move in to their “forever home” (to the livingroom) ?

Thank you again!!

[DanaNM]

I’m guessing most of the issues are because it’s less neutral. Rabbits rely strongly on their sense of smell, so if they are within smelling range of their home territory that can sometimes cause issues.  If things get tense again in tonight’s sessions, it may be best to try another space that’s more neutral. I saw a really similar pattern with one of my pairs, where they would be fine all day, then get into these tiffs overnight. I tried 5 days straight in that space, and then decided to move to a friend’s garage. They had no other issues in the new space and made it through the first night with no issues.

The act of grooming is a submissive behavior. Once a pair is bonded, there tends to be mutual grooming, but the buns have to really trust each other to groom each other. Males will also sometimes groom as a precursor to mounting (a dominant behavior), and sometimes the mounted bun won’t let the other bun mount unless they have groomed them long enough.

It’s really impossible to predict which bun will be dominant or submissive, and I’m convinced that half the time BOTH buns think they are dominant, because you will often see a mix of behaviors, so I try not to worry about it too much. Just focus on preventing fights and they will sort things out. 🙂

You might try removing the litter box tonight and see if that makes a difference.

I like to see them acting 100% bonded (no negative behaviors, lots of positives) for 48 hours at least before moving them to their final home. In my experience they will seem to “click” when they are bonded (they are just very relaxed and act like buddies, not like they are just tolerating the other bun). I will often leave them in the neutral/semi neutral spot longer just to be on the safe side. The nice thing is after they have been acting bonded for 48 hours, you don’t need to supervise them as closely in that territory, so it can give you a bit of a break. Then once you move to a new location, you should supervise again for 48 hours just to make sure everything is fine.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Peanut Twi]

Yes, the issue is probably the not so neutral place. Peanut started to put his tale up, started honking and peeing again going to a tornado with Twilight this night.

So I moved to a very neutral smaller bathroom and see how it will go the overnight. So far there is no chinning and any of those behaviors from Peanut. They are eating lots of hay and relaxing next to each other in loaf position.

How long have you stayed in your friend’s garage?

I also removed the litterbox for this night. What do you suggest, how much time should I wait to put it back?

[Wick & Fable]

As a cautionary approach, I advise not jostling/changing anything in later stages of bonding until there is at least 24hrs of peace in the current arrangement (later stages because in the beginning, there may not be adequate hay resources to sustain 24hr restriction). If 24hrs+ is reached with no tense/negative interactions, then you can try expanding to fit a litterbox and see how they react, repeat, and then progress if things continue going smoothly.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[DanaNM]

That’s great they are doing better in the bathroom!!

I agree with Wick, if they are doing well in the current situation, don’t change anything for 24 hours. Then you can try adding a litter box and see how that goes.  It’s important that the box is new, or really really clean. If it doesn’t cause issues you are on the right track! If it causes issues, remove it any wait another 24 hours. Puppy pee pads are your friend!

I ended up spending about 5 days in my friend’s garage! But that was because I didn’t have a great semi-neutral area at my house, so I was planning to move them straight from the neutral spot to their final home. I only supervised 24/7 the first 3 days, then they were doing so perfectly I was able to leave them during the day and go to work. I still spent the night with them though because issues with them tended to occur at night (they were completely fine though).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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