Bonding Chunk and Euler

[Algie]

 Had a first bathtub bonding session today with Chunk and Euler. I think it went really well, but I’m not sure what it all means. 

When we first put the both of them in the bathtub, they largely ignored each other. They seemed to be pointedly ignoring each other, actually. I put in a tub of fresh veg, and Euler immediately went and munched like crazy, while Chunk froze up a bit, and did his own thing.

Chunk was the first to mark, but this didn’t really affect anything. He was also the first to stick his head under Euler’s chin and go “groom me” to which she seemed totally oblivious. Eventually with application of peanut butter and banana goo to the forehead we got them to groom one another, so I think that’s really positive. 

There wasn’t a single fight the entire half hour, but there also wasn’t any signs of struggling for dominance, so I don’t know what to think of that. I mean, it’s sort of what I expected as neither have ever really acted on their hormones, but then I don’t speak bunny that well. 

So it was a pretty low-key date, a little grooming, a little snacking, no fighting, and definitely ended on good terms.

I’m not sure where to go next. Do we do several more bathtub meets, or do I move into a less neutral territory. I was thinking of setting up a pen in my bedroom, on the floor. Both have daily play-time there, separately, and so if that goes well we might be well on our way to bondsville! 

(They have been in cages side-by-side for quite a long time now, and I have been doing cage switches, so they should be quite familiar with one another’s smells)

[BinkyBunny]

Very good first day. Ignoring is positive sign. Most of the time it just means, I don’t want to fight – I am not a threat. From your descriptions, Chuck is showing signs of dominance with his markings and request to be groomed. Doesn’t sound like Euler is aggressive about Chuck’s displays at all, so that is good. The fact that Euler doesn’t groom at Chuck’s request may be a sign of dominance too or just that he’s not ready yet – but looks like the old banana on the forehead trick may have helped them at least today.

I would say it would be okay to try another location, but be sure it is still neutral – maybe just the bathroom floor? Just don’t go too fast even with good signs because after the “stress” wears off, they will most likely still have to establish some rules. I wouldn’t take the chance yet of putting them in a territory they are familiar with just yet. Things can be set off their hormones so it’s best to play it safe right now.

[Algie]

Today’s bonding session was a mixed bag.

Started out today in the living room (a place neither bun has been before) inside a pen made of NIC cubes which I’ve dubbed ‘Bunderdome.’ (Two buns enter, two buns leave.)

They were in there for about 45 minutes with little progress. First, they ignored each other. The majority of the time Chunk was hunkered down in one spot not moving and generally being his very afraid self. Euler asked for groomies, but he refused, of course, staying frozen. After a bit I put a big blanket over the top of the bunderdome so it was nice and dark inside.

Chunk got a bit more hoppy, but when Euler asked for groomies he completely ignored her and groomed himself. I don’t know if he’s being dominant or is just afraid to initiate contact.

I decided to give them some stress bonding, so I put them in the bunny carrier on top of the running dryer. Euler was all “hey, this is weird, what’s going on?” and Chunk was completely frozen.

I went to put them back in the pen, with some food, and a scuffle occurred. Euler chased Chunk a bit, presumably wanting to play, and Chunk nipped at her, pulling out a hunk of fur.

I wanted to end the date on a good note so I put them both back in the bathtub. Euler was happy as could be, all was forgiven. She snuggled up to Chunk, flopped beside him, nuzzled and nudged. Chunk remained a bunsicle, but did seem to snuggle in closer to Euler a little bit.

I’m thinking more bathtub sessions are definitely in order.

[Algie]

 Day 3: This stuff is exhausting, surprisingly.

Started out with a 30-or-so min. bathtub session. All went very well. Big tub of veggies, very little marking. Lots of asking to be groomed by Chunk, and getting ignored by ADHD Euler. A few times they were head to head in a “who’ll groom first” battle, but Euler always gets distracted and wanders off before it comes to a head.

Directly after, I put the two in the bunderdome, which I had set up in my room, at the foot of my bed. A semi-neutral place. They were there for maybe another half-hour to 45 min and it all went pretty well. A bit of nose-to-nose cuddling (will put up pics later) but still no groomies. 

After that, I let them relax for the afternoon in their cages. 

Then, this evening, I set up the bunderdome right next to my bed with a litter box, hay bin, and cardboard box hide-away so that they could spend some quality time together while I sat close by and kept an eye on them. They ignored each other, though Euler did a lot of jumping into the box, and over Chunk, and sat on Chunk’s head, and was generally her excitable self. I did a bit of putting treats (dried fruit) on their heads, and after a couple tries, Euler actually gave Chunk a good groomin! Hallelujah!

They sat and hung out for about an hour and a half, totally chill, munching on hay and lounging. 

So I was really pleased, and thought I’d do another cage-switch. Unfortunately, Chunk didn’t so much like being in Euler’s cage and jumped right over the door and out. I figured if Escape-artist Euler hadn’t tried that route then fraidy-bun Chunk surely wouldn’t. 

Unfortunately, when trying to switch the cages back, they had a bit of a scuffle on the floor near their cages. Chunk was the aggressor, again, nipping a bit of fur. I broke it up and put a barrier between them, and put Euler in the carrier while I got Chunk back in his cage. Then let Euler run around.

I feel bad for her because she is such a sweet bun, and Chunk is just habitually grumpy. I didn’t want to end on a bad note but I’m exhausted and worn-out from bunny-wrangling and having a cold. 

So I guess tomorrow it’s back to the bathtub…or maybe the dryer. 

[BinkyBunny]

Bonding IS exhausting, and the time it takes to set up the bonding place, stress bonding, then changing locations,then the ACTUAL bonding, and then back to their pens, then cleaning up the bonding location (which can be filled with territorial poos). All and all the whole bonding process from beginning to end is sooo tiring. Even the easiest ones.

It sounds like things are going well though especiially being that it’s so early on. Sounds like a very positive beginning! The hardest thing is that there is a unique dynamic for each pair and it’s up us to figure out and even modify the process to make it work. Sounds like that is what you are doing – figuring out what works and what doesn’t so far.

Keep us updated

[Algie]

Ok, so I have some quick updates for the past two days, and then my sort of major quandry right now:

I’m at the point now where if they are together in a neutral environment, they’re pretty much fine together. Euler will groom Chunk, and Chunk will try to groom Euler. I say ‘try’ because I think Chunk’s idea of grooming is a bit more rough than Euler is okay with. Also, his history of nipping her has caused her to bounce away if he gets too close. But, regardless, they can co-habitate in a neutral area in the bunderdome.

However, yesterday, after about two hours in the bunderdome, and no nips, I brought the two upstairs to put them in Euler’s cage. (Euler doesn’t get dominant about her stuff, she’s happy to share.) They were okay for about twenty minutes before the nipping and chasing began.

My first bit of confusion is that I’m not sure if it’s fighting or dominance-nipping. There are occasional growls but usually it’s just Chunk coming up behind Euler and nipping her on the butt and her running away. Then I put them close to one another and stroke them both, to try to get them to like that. Should I be letting the post-nip dominance battle play out rather than stopping it?

Also, I’m planning on doing a bit new condo for when they are bonded, that should be removed of most of the scent of either. (we’re taking out most of the carpet squares so we can put down linoleum on the bottom floor.) But I don’t want to tear down the old cages until I’m sure they’re going to be able to live together so I can’t put them in it and see what they do…But it should be more or less a neutral space.

Would they learn to cohabitate in it, or would they just form new territories for dominance?

[BinkyBunny]

They should be able to cohabitate in the future, but I think it was too soon to put them in Euler’s cage. Since you are getting a new condo (?), I would just put them there once they are bonded and not let them share each other’s territories until they have had more bonding sessions together. If you move too quickly, you can undo.  IF they get along great, then is there anyway you can do a  whole weekend bonding.  It’s certainly isn’t the most fun to be had, but it may help solidify things since they seem to be getting along so well within their 2 hour time frame.

[Algie]

 Having some new frusteration. I’ve put together the new condo (so fantastic!, will put up pics in a bit) and the entire place is cleaned out of either one’s scent so it should be alright for them to hang out in there. (Plus, slippery linolium floors keep Chunk on his toes) Now there’s a new problem: 

Because Chunk was such a little nipper, Euler now runs away as soon as he gets anywhere near her. I honestly don’t think it’s Chunk’s intention to nip anymore, especially since they’ve been in neutral space, but Euler still takes off as soon as Chunk gets anywhere near.

Anyone know how to fix this?

[BinkyBunny]

Eventually, if Chuck stops approaching her, she may calm down, but if you want you can try and comfort her as he approaches. If you pet her while he approaches, does she still run away? You may have to help her learn to trust by just keeping her calm with his approach.  I have to do this with Vivian and that does help.  (with my situation though, I also have to stop Jack from mounting right now), but what I am saying is I do help Vivian trust his approaches by petting her when he comes near (even though she shouldn’t trust him right now ) and you may be able to do the same with Euler. 

 

 

[Algie]

Well, it’s been two full weeks since my first session with Chunk and Euler, and I’m happy to say they are comfortably bonded. For the past two days, we’ve been catching them snuggling together and laying side by side, it’s really cute, and i’m glad they each have a friend.

It was a really stressful experience, but it was definitely worth it. I am so happy for my buns!

[Author]

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