Bonding Bunny and Alistair….UPDATE are they BONDED???

[Deleted User]

I’m not sure how to change the title of my previous post, so I guess I’ll make this new thread my bonding thread for Bunny (the jersey wooly) and Alistair (the b&w dutch).

I haven’t put them together over the past week because I’ve had the flu.  This morning when I was lying in bed I could see Bunny sticking her nose through the grids and letting Alistair groom her that way, so I thought I should put them together again today.

When I first put Bunny into Alistairs room today at around 2:45pm she was upset (snorting, stressed, breathing fast), so I just petted her for a while until she calmed down a bit.  Then while I was petting her Alistair came up and sat beside her so I petted him at the same time.  This went fine until he got really nose to nose with Bunny and she nipped at him and then he ran away.

Then I sat back for a while and let them do their own thing.  Bunny checked out the room for a few minutes and then went to lay in the corner about a foot from where Alistair was eating.

After Alistair stopped eating he layed down on the other side of the food tray, but he seemed pretty relaxed because he stuck his little back feeties out.

Then they just layed there sleeping for about 1/2 an hour, so I thought I would end it on a good note so I decided to make Bunny feel happy by cutting her hair a bit (getting her hair cut is Bunny’s favorite thing for some reason).  While I was cutting her hair she was very relaxed and Alistair came up and started grooming her bum and her side, I just kept petting her a little bit while he was grooming her to keep her calm. 

Then Alistair went and layed down and Bunny went over to him (she rarely goes over to him) and she started grooming HIS bum (she never usually grooms him at all, she’s the dominant one), and he continued to lay there until I think maybe she got a little rough and Alistair jumped up and ran away a bit. 

After that Bunny ate some lettuce and went into the litter pan and I took her out of the room (we have to take her in and out of the room in the litter pan because she doesn’t like to be picked up, so we just slide her around in the litter pan and she’s fine).

Anyway, there were no crazy fights, just that one little nip at the beginning and Bunny didn’t chase him….. so it seemed like a positive session to me.  It lasted for an hour and fifteen minutes.  I’m sure I still interfered a little too much, but I thought it seemed pretty good this time.  Anyone have any thoughts on this one?  Am I on the right track?

Thanks!

 

 

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[Sarita]

It does sound very positive to me. They sure are a cute pair too. The grooming and relaxing are positive signs.

[Deleted User]

I’m so glad you think it’s positive Sarita : ) 

I thought the fact that they are grooming each others bums was a little strange, but I’ll take what I can get!

I have a question about the trick where you mush some banana on their ears or forehead to get them to groom each other… should the banana be put on the submissive bun or the dominant one?  Because I think if I was to put it on Bunny she would just get dominant and nip at Alistair, but if I put it on Alistair I know he would let her do whatever she wanted… but would this help and make her actually groom him, or would she just think she was licking banana and stop when she was done?

 

 

[Deleted User]

So this morning I was in bed and I could hear Alistair moving his litter pan, so when hubby got out of the shower I asked him to go put it back in place (it was way to early for me to get out of bed ).  When he went into the room to move it he said Bunny was in Alistairs area, I asked him what she was doing and he said she was just sitting near him.  So I guess when Alistair moved his litter pan she must have pushed the grids over where his pan had been.

It couldn’t have been more than a couple of minutes that she was in there, but I’m glad there was no fighting.  I had him put her back and then he put the grids back in place and the litter pan back.  So maybe she was being curious about him?  She’s never tried to get into his area like that before.

Later today when I put them together for a bonding session nothing much happened at first.  Alistair ate and Bunny sat near him like yesterday.  Then Alistair came and sat next to me and I petted him a bit and while I was petting him Bunny came over and started sniffing him, then she groomed his bum a bit again and then groomed his side a little (maybe 30 seconds total).  Then she layed down next to him!  Right next to him touching him.  I was amazed.  They sat there like that for a few minutes and then Alistair got up and ate some lettuce and I petted Bunny for a few minutes.  Then he came up and sniffed her and groomed her for maybe 10 seconds before he got scared I guess and backed off.  But Bunny didn’t chase him or try to nip him at all.

I don’t know why they are being so different this week, but I was sooo excited when Bunny was being so good towards him.  I’m sure this must be progress.  I just hope it lasts.  I’m not sure what to do now though.

[BunnyMuffin]

Hey – that sounds great! Try to keep up with the daily sessions and let them go for longer. Are the bonding sessions happening in their future shared space or are they still in neutral territory? Because you could maybe start trying them in less neutral territory if they aren’t already. Maybe just bring a book in and read a bit while still keeping an eye on them but more letting them interact as if you weren’t there? Just a few ideas…

Definitely sounds like good progress though!

[Beka27]

That sounds wonderful! I’m also curious where you’re doing it, is it in neutral space or their shared space? I would continue doing the sessions daily, and do them longer if you can. If they get along for an hour with no problems, go at least that long. If they can get along all afternoon, I’d keep them together the entire time. You might want to bring a chair and a magazine/book in.

With my two, eventually they were able to play in their room the entire afternoon, and I did not have to be there directly supervising. I was always within earshot (we have a small house anyways) but I was free to move about and do other stuff. I then opened the oors of their xpens and they were both freely hopping in and out of each other’s pen (this wasn’t a huge deal since I switched the bunnies betw/ pens every night from the beginning).

[Deleted User]

Right now the bonding sessions are happening in Alistairs space, which he is not territorial of at all. Since we’ve only had him since Jan I’d call it neutral since Bunny had never been in there before that. When I’ve tried to do sessions in Bunnys area (which is our living room, but they will both have free run of the house once they are bonded, but technically I’d say that’s going to be their home base) Bunny has gotten more upset (lunging/chasing/nipping).

My gut instinct is that it’s too early to be trying in Bunny’s territory again. I feel like it’s taken a long time for her to warm up to him like this, so I just want her to keep being friendly with him before I move them out. Right now I’m usually doing about an hour and a half for bonding sessions, which I hate to admit but I have been ending them because I forget to bring something in with me and I start to get bored. Then I’m too nervous to leave them alone for 2 seconds because it seems when I do then thats when a fight actually will break out.

Yesterday Bunny nipped at Alistair again when he got nose to nose with her trying to groom her. I was sad because it felt like a step backwards. Do you think it is a step back, or is this still normal? She really seems like she doesn’t like to be approached head on by him, only from the side. Seems weird to me.

Anyway, I should go put some books or something in his room now while I am thinking about it lol.

[Beka27]

Are you switching them between the two areas every night. That is one of the most important things you can do at this point or they will never be able to progress beyond where they are. Everytime you return Bunny to “her area” you reinforce it as hers, and hers only.

Explain to us a bit further what their set-up is like.  Ideally, you want them to be able to see/smell each other 24/7 during the bonding process.  You can usually accomplish this by having the two cages right next to each other, about 3 inches apart so there is no nipping betw/ them.

[Deleted User]

Neither of the bunnies are in cages. Alistair has free run of one of the back bedrooms (where the bonding sessions take place), the hallway and part of the living room. Bunny has free run of the living room except for where Alistairs section is. There are grids (NIC grids) as a “fence” separating their areas. They can always see and be together. They spend most of their time together at the grids, and their food dishes and litter pans are side by side at the grids. There is no space separating them at the grids because they never try and bite each other through them, but rather spend alot of time grooming each other through the grids. I’ll attach a picture of part of that area.

I don’t switch them at night time because I’m worried that Bunny will start to feel that Alistairs room is her territory if I do and I don’t want that to happen at all since the bonding sessions go so smoothly in there right now (although I guess I could close the bedroom door so that she would only have access to the hallway and Alistairs part of the living room).

Another thing is that we are going to be doing renovations soon which will include completely renovating the living room. Once this is done the carpet will be gone and the walls will have been torn down and re-drywalled, so I think that it would be a totally neutral area again right? While the renovations are happening they will be kept in Alistairs room at the back. The only thing we are waiting on to do the renovations is for the buns to bond so that we can keep them in the back room together safely/happily while we do it.

Meh, I don’t know what to do now.

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[Beka27]

I would move them both to Alistairs area then, as their permanent location. I think you might just be confusing them by putting them together and then taking them apart. They might not be happy that they have reduced run space, but it’s for a purpose. They’ll get over it. It sounds like you’re not being aggressive enough in making them be together.

[Deleted User]

Beka, I think you’re probably right. It’s probably a good idea to have them in closer quarters like that while they bond, I just feel guilty because they’ve had so much space so far. Once they are bonded I could move them into the living room once it’s renovated though right?

So what is the best way of doing this? I was thinking I would divide Alistairs room in 1/2 with grids, and then remove the grids when I do a bonding session. Then put the grids back up and put each individual bun on the opposite side from where they were before.

[Beka27]

Just remember, it’s temporary. And once they’re bonded, they will be so much happier, it’ll make the short-term reduction of freedom worth it in the end.

What worked for me in bonding was to have two pens in half the room, the other half was open space for bonding sessions. The two pens were always in place. They got individual playtime in the open half, and then they had bonding sessions there. The open half was a shared space, whereas the pens were not.

here is a pic of how the room was set up:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc259/Beka_27/Bonding/0605-2.jpg

[Deleted User]

I’m so confused.

I made the move 2 days ago, and put Bunny in Alistairs room.  They are separated like shown in the pic below and I remove the grids when we do a session.

Yesterday after I removed the grids I was petting Alistair and Bunny came up and nipped him on the face (didn’t even get any fur though), other than that things were ok, we spend about 4 uneventful hours together in there.  They laid close to each other alot (pics below).

Today is strange though.  Bunny will go up to him and want to lay with him and that’s fine.  But if Alistair comes up to her she nips him.  He just wants to groom her.  I don’t know what the problem is.  What should I beind doing about it / what should I be doing period at this point? 

  I just want my buns to be bonded.

 

[MarkBun]

My guess is that Bunny is telling Allister that she had not given him permission to approach her. Allister seems in the latest photos to be trying to ask Bunny to come over to him but she’s not having it. I would think that Allister is still showing some dominant traits and Bunny isn’t happy about that. They are relaxing near one another without fighting but it could be the old “I’m more relaxed than you so I fear you less” contest. I would say you just need to be patient. If the nipping continues, I would suggest a car/dryer ride before the bonding session

[Deleted User]

I know I haven’t posted in ages, unfortunately life been crazy the past several months.

But, I will stick to the topic at hand… I THINK THE BUNS ARE BONDED!!!!!

The bonding process was not going well for the first several months, and then I had surgery and some other complications, so I couldn’t do daily bonding sessions with them. I have a friend who has bonded many bunnies, and she suggested that I just let them live in their bonding room divided by the grid fence for a couple of months until I was on my feet again. So that’s exactly what I did.

Then recently I started bonding them again, but in different neutral territory, they only had a couple of sessions over the last 2 weeks. The sessions seemed ok, but near the end Bunny would always get upset and lunge at Alistair and start nipping at him.

Then on Thursday my husband and I came home from work and when we went to the back room to check on the bunnies we were shocked to see that they had somehow (we still have no idea how) managed to knock the fence over that was between them, and they were both sitting in the same area. I panicked and immediately checked them over to see if there were any injuries… but there were none. Both buns were totally fine, there wasn’t even any tufts of fur lying around.

Since they seemed fine we decided to let them stay in the same area for a while and see how it went. We have no idea what time they knocked the fence over, so we don`t know how long they had already been sitting together for. Well, two hours went by.. then four.. five.. Nothing happened. They were totally fine, they just say a few feet away from each other ignoring each other. We watched TV and listened for scuffles, but there weren`t any. So we let them spend the night together, our bedroom is right next to the bunny room so if they would have started fighting we could have been in there right away.

There was no fighting though. Yesterday I had the day off, so I let them stay together again. My husband came home and we ate dinner, and then when we snuck back to check on them after dinner Bunny was grooming Alistair!!!!! Bunny has always been the one that is reluctant to groom him or accept his advances, so we were amazed. She groomed him for hours! They spent the night together again last night.

Today I woke up to Bunny happily (but heavily) grooming Alistair again. I decided this must be a good sign, so I removed the fence that was dividing them, and now they are just hanging out together back there. They haven`t laid side by side yet, but they do sleep a foot or two away from each other, and visit each other frequently for grooming.

Does this mean they are bonded? Did my buns just bond themselves????

I have pictures and video of Bunny grooming Alistair last night, but I have to wait for my husband to get home with the camera so I can upload them.

Any thoughts anyone? I’m so happy I could cry!!!

[Deleted User]

Here are the pics and video that I was talking about in my last post.  The first 4 pics and the video are from yesterday, and the last 3 pics are from today.

(Please ignore Bunny’s crazy hair, she’s losing her summer coat so she looks rather patchy).

Here`s yesterday`s pics:

 

Here`s the video:

 

Today`s Pics are in the next post.

 

 

 

[Deleted User]

Here are today`s pics:

 

What do you think after seeing the pics and reading the first post I made today?  Could we finally be bonded?  Bunny has never been like this to Alistair before!  

[RabbitPam]

It all sounds very good to me.

What I think is the most encouraging is that it is their own idea, and it’s now been going on for several days. I think you can be very happy. Checking on them and staying watchful is still important.

[Deleted User]

Thanks RabbitPam.

I think everything seems very good, Bunny continues to groom Alistair today, and there is not chasing or fighting at all. The only thing that concerns me is that they don`t lay side by side like I see other bunnies do when they are bonded. Does this come with time, or is this a sign that they are not fully bonded?

[mrmac]

I agree they look good! Still keep an eye on them, but I wouldn’t worry about them layng next to eachother yet. It does take some time for them to settle in with eachother.

[Deleted User]

Thanks mrmac. I’ll let them be for a bit then I guess and let them cement their bond. I do hope that they will end up being being close enough to sleep beside each other though.

Do they usually always lay side by side when they are bonded, or are there bonded pairs that do not lay beside each other like that? (meaning do they always fall in love, or do they sometimes just tolerate each other?)

[jerseygirl]

I think you’re in the “cementing the bond phase”. Are they now in what will be their living space? I’d say, continue as you have been and keep an ear open. Looks great. They don’t always snuggle. I found mine did more so after a few weeks after they were bonded. The main thing is their peacefully sharing the space and nearness to one another.

[Deleted User]

Thanks, that’s what I was hoping for.

They are not in the space that will be their living space. The space they are in was meant just for bonding. Do you think I should move them to their permanent space (they are freerun, but they would be in a different part of the house) or should I wait a few weeks while they are finishing bonding first?

[jerseygirl]

You could leave them where they are most of the time but try them for short lengths in their permanent space. There may be a few more territorial issues regarding this space that they may have to sort out. If there are big issues about it, continue only in the bonding area they currently share. If there’s no issues in the permanent space, they may as well go there. Depends on you too and where you best can observe them. You can actually clean thru the permanent space with vinegar/water solution to try neutralise it somewhat.

[Deleted User]

The buns have continued to do well together. They have been living together 24/7 for one week now, and there has not been any fighting or chasing or nipping or anything.

They still aren’t snuggling, but have been laying closer together (about 8-10 inches apart).

I was wondering though… when they were going through the bonding process Alistair was always the one who wanted to groom Bunny. But now that they are seemingly bonded Bunny grooms Alistair all the time, but Alistair doesn’t groom Bunny at all.

Should I be doing something to make Alistair groom Bunny (banana trick), or does it matter? They are happy together, so I’m wondering if sometimes in a bonded pair one grooms but the other doesn’t? I have no idea but any thoughts/advice would be appreciated

[mrmac]

Sometimes one will groom one more than the other, My girl bunny will hardly/rarely groom either of the boys, but she gets groomed all the time. Usually the one who is getting groomed is more dominant one, but over time their dominance with eachother will gradually decrease as they become more and more comfortable with eachother and their surroundings.

[jerseygirl]

During bonding mine, my doe was first to groom and the buck just wouldn’t. He was always requesting. After the bond, he now is chief groomer and she doesn’t groom him as much. Hers are kind of token compared to his grooming efforts. It’s just how they socialise now, it doesn’t have to be even.

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