Bonding Bunnies – Fighting

[danielc9]

Hi all

This is my first post. I’ve gone through the boards and other websites.

Just looking for members advise.

I’ve never had to bond Rabbits before as bought it pairs before.

However we have two rescues, a year between them and after a bonding date went well we brought Eevee home.

We started with all the device getting them apart etc, and then they had another date 7days later went well apart from a little bitting which was sorted and the date ended.

We went out last night and came back an hour late and Jasper the little ^Swear Word^ had managed to get into her cage and there was a chunk of her ear missing and fur everywhere but she was sat one end and him the other and I know it doesn’t matter if they heard us come in rabbits fighting will continue to fight.

So we checked him and hes okay – My partner phones the emergency vet and off we go 18 miles down the road and £164 later she gets her ears stitched. We spoke while we were waiting and thought about taking her back as it wouldn’t work but we’d bonded with her.

So after speaking to the vets and a lady there who had bonded buns now. She said they will bond now as Eevee has submitted, so we did a lot of research and I’m currently in work typing this up but the information is conflicting.

Some info says it won’t work, some says it will.

He’s been quite lost without her now, she was put in our bedroom last night and this morning he was looking all around for her in the living room and he must have smelt her as he came to our door. Making it a nightmare for me to get out the bedroom this morning to come to work. 

She was quite lost to she’s been looking for him too.

Everything was going so well they used each others litter trays etc didn’t dig or anything and then this ear thing last night and we’re lost but stuck in a rut as we also don’t want to give her back.

I hope this all makes sense and that the information I’ve provided is enough if more is needed I’m happy to do this. Just finishing my lunch break though so needed to type this up fast.

Thanks Daniel and Luke.

[Deleted User]

I’m really sorry this has happened to you, it sounds terrible. I’m just a little confused as to what the arrangement is. At the start of your post you mention one date and then 7 days apart and then another date? Then you say that they have been using each other’s litter trays? Have the rabbits been together at all apart from dates and when he got into the cage? I’m not sure if I’ve read correctly. But it doesn’t sound like you have taken the appropriate steps to pre bond and bond your bunnies. All I can advise is do not put them together, they are not bonded and they definitely aren’t pining for each other’s company. There are more experienced bonders on here that can give you very good and specific next steps for your situation. But the first thing is not to allow any more contact between these two rabbits. What has happened to your bunny is very extreme but it can be worse than this and result in death if they are allowed anymore contact

[sarahthegemini]

Eddyw111 has asked some good questions, I’m a little confused too. Also, please ignore the lady that said “they’ll bond now as Ever has submitted” Eevee did not submit. She was attacked/bitten.

[Mikey]

Also confused. You bought them as a pair, but housed them separately, and then after a week or two Jasper attacked Eevee after getting into her cage? They only went on one bunny date, and that was before you adopted them, and the shelter considered one date to be a cemented bond???

Right now, your best bet is to keep them in completely different rooms away from one another. You need them both to relax and feel comfortable again. You also need them to forget about this fight, as rabbits who hold grudges will never bond with a rabbit that scares or angers them. Youll want to keep them in completely different rooms for two to six months.

[danielc9]

Hi

Thanks for the replies so far.
I’ve had Bunnies in the past brought together so they bonded fine, hope this clears that up.

We got these two 1 year apart Jasper was a rescue from pets at home and Eevee from the society of abandon animals.
I was in work on my lunch 30minutes while typing so it doesn’t make any sense and I do apologise for this.

So for the last 6 months we’ve been looking for another bunny to keep Jasper company while we’re at work. My partner works standard office hours 9am – 530pm and I work shifts between 8am – 10pm and every third weekend so we looked into bonding two rabbits and how well it will go and made sure we only got a rescue, as I believe there’s far too many animals in the United Kingdom as it is needing new homes let alone a new baby animal.

We spotted Eevee 1.5months ago and went back and visited a few times and discussed everything with the charity.
We didn’t want to rush and they don’t want to rush either it’s very clear in their paperwork they take her back if things don’t work etc.

We arranged a date after the house visit and the bunnies spent 1 hour together on neutral territory with us there and we only had to intervene once where there had been a nip but no blood etc and me and my partner then discussed if we would take Eevee home with us as we where asked. The adoption centre only offer one date session, and things had gone well and from everything we had read it seemed fine to take her home.

We had two pens set up and we let her out to get use to her new surroundings and kept him in his large play pen for the rest of the day.
After two days of her using his toilet in the corner and her using her own pen, we swapped the litter trays from the pens and the food bowls and they where both fine. No digging at the litter box or throwing the bowls around etc which we where advised and read up that if that happened it wouldn’t be good. They where kept apart 4inchs from each others pens they could see and smell each other but not get to each other.

On the 7th day of having her we put them on another date in the bath tub again neutral territory. There was some humping from him, and then he humped her face I took him off and placed him correctly as per the bonding information we’ve read up on, he nipped her she didn’t like it and chased him, so we separated them and tried again and the same happened, so again separated them and made sure when we got them back together stroked them both together so it ended well.

Other than then being together on their dates there has been no other contact directly to one another we’ve followed all the information we’ve found, along with the sanctuaries and also friends who have bonded buns in the past. I was quite shocked a lot of sites talk about stress bonding which me and my partner are currently refusing to do as we believe its cruel and could make things worse. However someone may be able to point us in another direction however it’s not a path we really wish to review in all honesty

We’re still not sure how he got out of his cage and in to her’s he’s never jumped out of the cage before and it’s a big dog crate we use for the cages. And when we got back she was sat at one end of her cage and him the other. My partner thinks they stopped fighting because they heard us. However I disagree with him as like any animal they will fight and fight regardless of someone coming in, unless someone here begs to differ and I’ll hold my hand up to my partner and say we disturbed them.
When we checked him it was just some fur missing from him no skin or blood however. I then checked her and there was fur and no skin until I seen her ear which is when we noticed there was a chunk of her ear missing near and this had to be glued at the vets last night.

Since last night when we got back from the vets he’s stayed in our living room and she has stayed in our bedroom. My partner he took a half-day today and came back and Eevee has been fine and he’s been in the bedroom with her.

In all honesty I don’t believe they will bond now from information I’ve read but it’s quite conflicting. The vets and a lady there seem to reckon they will bond now and my colleague at work who has bonded buns before says it will as she had something similar happen to her when bonding hers. I don’t believe she has submitted to Jasper at all and I’ve explained this to my partner not to believe everything the vets or random strangers say.
I’m not one to just give up on an animal but at the same time forcing a bond is only going to annoy the buns and cause stress to them and us.

Eevee has been sat under the bed in the usual bunny relax flopped down mode all day and doesn’t seem bothered, Jasper tried to get in the bedroom this morning but was stopped and he’s been acting as he’s pinning however as I say I’ve never bonded two separate rabbits before as I’ve always had pairs who’ve luckily never broken a bond and that’s when I was a child.

Me and my partner before and after work. We’re not your average 24/25 yr olds who go out drinking every evening/weekend. We’re quite boring people as we did all the partying when we were younger. We have lots of time to spend with the buns and bond them. However as I’ve said I’m dubious of it ever working which isn’t helping the situation, where he believe it will.

We’re not and we’ve never expected them to bond over night we’re aware it was going to take a few months, we have no issue with them staying in separate rooms but if it’s going to be like this forever it wouldn’t be fair on the buns. I’m hoping people can help here and provide any advice they have for us to look into.

[Deleted User]

I don’t think there is any reason your bunnies can’t bond but that’s only with a complete reset. Like mikey has suggested they need to completely forgot each other. There is bad blood between them now. Although you say that jasper seems like he is looking for her but this is likely because she is in his territory. I don’t think there has been sufficient time pre bonding. It sounds like you have been on the right lines and I’m in no way saying you’ve gone about any of this completely wrong. It just sounds rushed. The more time you can spend prebonding the better. Evee should have had minimum of 2 weeks to settle first before starting anything so she can get comfortable. Are both these rabbits spayed and neutered?

[Mikey]

Agreeing with Eddy. A complete separation for a few months, then work on prebonding. You completely lacked prebonding when you tried the first time. Ill type out a quick outline Id recommend for your situation.

Step one: Two to six months apart. Different rooms, different cages. If theyre not both fixed, get them fixed.

Step two: After their complete split, prebond for atleast a month. Keep them both in pens/cage, and keep them about 10 inches apart from one another. Prebonding is swapping their items like you started to do before, but keep it up for a full month. Allow them to mark the heck out of everything you swap, and try to avoid cleaning as much as possible so they can learn to share territory.

Step three: Work on bonding in the tub again. Short sessions multiple times a day, slowly increasing the time per day until they can be together for 4+ hours without aggression.

[danielc9]

Thanks for all the replies.

I just want to assure you we didn’t rush into the pre-bonding. We followed advice from forums here, forums elsewhere, the RSPCA website, our friends who have bonded rabbits and also our society where we adopted them from.

Both have been done for well over a year – I have got all this information on my bio also.
The industry I work in 90% of my work is investigation work. So I don’t rush into anything and make sure I use multiple sources for information using one source isn’t the best. However people here are from all our the world which is why we thought it was best to post here and have different ways of pre-bonding. We live in what we call a cottage flat in the north of the UK. So it’s a ‘house’ split into two flats but purpose built that way so it’s like an apartment on an apartment. It’s not a massive space and we used what we could, we are the upstairs part so we only have a downstairs which is a tiny cupboard and the front door, we have no garden and I don’t believe in keeping pets outdoor but that’s my opinion.

Could you advise what you mean by we completed lacked pre-bonding Mikey. As this makes it sound like you’re saying we didn’t do any pre-bonding at all.
I noticed on your bio this “The two buns met, and got along well at the store so we took Bombur home. They shared a cage and free roam area, and bonded together very quickly.” Do you think this worked and you didn’t need to do any pre-bonding because they where both kits? The same as when I got a pair of kits from the pet-shop when I was a child?

You mentioned that after the split that we keep them in their pens etc but 10 inch apart – This wouldn’t be possible due to the size of our living room, we read online it can be a minimum of 3 the max we could do them so they where near each other and not opposite walls would be around 6inch would that be enough? Would you also suggest not giving them any free roaming time in that month also then?

Jasper is around 2.5yrs and Eevee around 2.5 – 3yrs old we have very little background on them, other than they where both escapee’s and the owners didn’t want them back. So we’re going off very little information, I can tell you more about Jasper attributes because he’s been with us over a year however Eevee was very shy at the sanctuary but has really come out of her shell since she’s lived with us.

[Deleted User]

Sounds like your close to me Daniel, based on your description and where you rescued evee from. Just want to mention that I hope you don’t feel like anyone on here is being overly critical or making out that their way is best. I can speak from experience that the advice you can get on here really is amazing. I started out as a first time bunny owner and purchased 2 male bunnies from pets at home(not the adoption section). The boys were fine for weeks. I got them neutered and then 2 weeks after neuter all hell broke lose. They fought and one had a piece of his ear missing. I managed to get them back together and all was fine until my mum lived in to bunny sit for a week while I was away on holiday. Even though my mum knew to keep an eye on their behaviour she didn’t realise that they had to be separated if they fought. My mum didn’t want to worry me while I was away so just told me they were fine. Unfortunately they fought twice more and my mum just presumed it was like cats, that they might fight and then leave each other be. After this they just hated each other and they were permanently separated. I felt that due to how nervous I was about them ever fighting again and the hostility they had towards each other even when they were in separate rooms it wouldn’t be wise for me to try again. This resulted in me getting one of the boys rehomed, luckily there was a happy ending and he has a lovely home with a lady bun he is bonded to. The reason they fought was that I didn’t follow the appropriate steps for bonding, I naively presumed because they were from the same litter they were already bonded, but since joining here I have learnt that baby rabbits do not form true bonds. This is a common belief of people buying rabbits which is a shame. To have the best chances of bonding both bunnies must be spayed/neutered and introduced properly. In June I got trixie, who was adopted from pets at home this time. Trixie lived side by side (approx 6 inches space between pens) for about 2 months before she was spayed. Once she was spayed I began swapping litter boxes, blankets and toys etc, maybe every 4 days or so. This continued until she was 4 weeks post spay. Bonding began mid September and I took it really slow at first. 4 days were done in the bath mainly to ease my nerves (some people don’t recommend bath tubs some do, it’s about picking up on the bunnies feelings and how to make yourself feel comfortable). After I felt a bit better about them not trying to attack (which they never did) I then moved on to the hallway. I did this for about 10 days, the time increasing each day. I got to a point where progress was made each day so I knew this was really positive. I realised that they needed to move on from the to and fro of going back to there pens each day. So I spent a Friday to Monday (so 4 full days) sleeping in the living room where they were housed. Since then all has been well. They adore each other and it’s so worthwhile.

I trust the information on here so much. I used a combination of the advice here, the advice given by the rspca Manchester and Salford(there is a document online somewhere, I’ll link it in if I manage to find the one I used).I also watched a lot of videos by mairwen guard, she’s got tonnes of experience and she’s fab. Her approach is very interesting. Here’s her rescue website http://www.cottontails-rescue.org.uk/information/bonding-bunnies/ and you can also just search her on YouTube, she’s got a few bonding videos which are useful mainly for just seeing certain behaviours to watch out for and to see different scenarios. I really just advise you to spend some time really exploring rabbit bonding. The more techniques you can learn and information you can get will make it a lot easier. I was really scared to bond my two because my past experience was awful. But because I spent so much time researching this time round I was able to really adapt what I was doing when I needed to, I didnt have to worry that one specific way wasn’t working, I was confident enough in the end to do what seemed to work for my individual circumstances. I hope all this makes sense, I just thought I’d share my story and how I went about it.

[danielc9]

Not at all Eddyw111 and like I say I don’t want anyone to think I’m not supporting the advice here. Social Media isn’t the best for tone of language.

I appreciate all the advise here and cotton tails is one of the ones I looked at and the same RSPCA website.

We were just lucky our kits when I was a kid did form a natural bond and they lived a long happy life together, that much we left them with the house when it sold (Army parents) in the large outdoor play shed we had and had contact with the buyers as they where my sisters friends.

I’m glad to hear that even with a chunk of ear missing from one our yours also, that they did starting getting on until your holiday. Which is a worry of mine, we’re going on our first holiday Since April 2017 in January 2018 with my sister in law and her girlfriend sitting for us and I need them to understand at no point are doors to be left open and all the pen dividers block doors etc are left in place and I do want this to work for them both but if it doesn’t then I don’t want to put pressure on the buns or mine and my partners relationship. We’re both massive pet lovers which is why it would break our hearts to have to give her back.

It’s really difficult as watching different videos and following advise everyone has their own opinions etc, which is why we chose to post here as there’s some amazing advice and it’s a massive forum here compared to some of the other sites. I just want the best advice and any hints and tips, and the natural investigating due to my career just kicks in and I always review much information etc.

They’re both very relaxed when they where around each other in their own pens on their own not together and where flopping down, it was just when he somehow managed to jump over the massive dog crate and got to her really got to us and annoyed us.

We haven’t had them together at any point other physically to get to each other than them having their date, even during their free roam time we stayed in the living room and she stayed in one corner (he remained in his play pen/bed) not near him and he ( while she stayed in her play pen/bed) stayed under his favourite chair under the dining table.

I do hope this makes more sense and hopes partner really doesn’t want to give up, I don’t either but it sounds like I’m stressing like you did which I don’t think is helping the situation with me and my anxiety.

[Deleted User]

Just focus for now on keeping them separate. With whatever set up you have. Just ensure no escapees. Continue with the pre bonding and just make sure everything is very consistent if possible. Stick to a plan/timescale even if you think they are ready sooner. The bunnies will feel more at ease this way and the time they are separated will also allow you to mentally prepare for the bonding process when it comes. By focusing on each bunny as a single it will also allow you and your partner to develop your bonds with them. Which is very important, so jasper is able to see you haven’t changed because this new bunny has arrived and for evee to learn to trust you and not feel scared that she is in this scary new situation. It’s such a nerve wracking thing but I can’t even tell you how amazing it is once it succeeds. It feels like a lifetime when your waiting for it to be time but all that is such a pay off in the end. To see a solid relationship blossom. I think it’s really important to have as much time with both bunnies in the household, housed separately. I think this is why my bond went well. They were aware of each other’s presence for 3 months before they met. I think this made them feel comfortable that the other wasn’t a threat and it allowed them to observe each other’s behaviours. So in a way they already knew each other a bit

[danielc9]

He’s stayed in the living room now and she’s in the bedroom. We have no door on the living room but due to get one when our new carpet is laid in the hallway so there’s metal cage inside the living room before the door frame and another on our bedroom door since yesterday afternoon, no chance of them getting to each other.

We’d always stick to a plan we don’t want to rush them and we was expecting a few months minimum and we’re more than happy to wait sometime for them before they meet each other again, as don’t want to freak them out.

In regards to attention with the Buns we’re giving them the same amount and we’ve made sure Jasper knows he’s still loved. He still comes up on the sofa etc and knows that he wasn’t treated any different.

When you say your’s were housed separately did you put them in different rooms at any point or just the side by side you mentioned above and did they have any free roam time on their own but away from the caged area?
It’s not an easy task at all – It’s also completely different to what I had when I was a kid which is why it’s really a new thing to me too and appreciate all the advise provided so far.

Thanks for all your advise so far.

[Sirius&Luna]

It’s very time consuming and can feel endless at times! I’ve just successfully bonded my bunnies, and seeing them together has really made it all worth it.

My only advice when you get onto the bonding stage is to take it slow, and don’t be afraid to intervene, get between them, and calm them both down. At some point you will have to step back of course, but at the beginning I think ‘managing’ their interactions really helped my two, because they learned that they weren’t going to get hurt, and they couldn’t behave badly.

Mine both lived in the same room, but separated, and both got free ranging time separately. I would drape blankets over the other’s pen so they couldn’t touch through the bars.

[danielc9]

Thanks Sirius&Luna.
We did that we draped their nighttime blankets over the cages so in the roam time they couldn’t see each other.

We’re more than ever prepared to take it slow and we’ll jump in when things happen.
For the time being we’ll keep them in separate rooms and then when we’re ready to start again we’ll introduce them cages apart blankets draped again.

Really appreciate everyone’s advise. I’m off work from next Wednesday for a few days. So I’m going to be splitting my time between the two rooms so they both no they’re loved and appreciated etc and calm.

[Mikey]

Posted By danielc9 on 10/24/2017 2:18 AM

Thanks for all the replies.

I just want to assure you we didn’t rush into the pre-bonding. We followed advice from forums here, forums elsewhere, the RSPCA website, our friends who have bonded rabbits and also our society where we adopted them from.

Both have been done for well over a year – I have got all this information on my bio also.
The industry I work in 90% of my work is investigation work. So I don’t rush into anything and make sure I use multiple sources for information using one source isn’t the best. However people here are from all our the world which is why we thought it was best to post here and have different ways of pre-bonding. We live in what we call a cottage flat in the north of the UK. So it’s a ‘house’ split into two flats but purpose built that way so it’s like an apartment on an apartment. It’s not a massive space and we used what we could, we are the upstairs part so we only have a downstairs which is a tiny cupboard and the front door, we have no garden and I don’t believe in keeping pets outdoor but that’s my opinion.

Could you advise what you mean by we completed lacked pre-bonding Mikey. As this makes it sound like you’re saying we didn’t do any pre-bonding at all.
I noticed on your bio this “The two buns met, and got along well at the store so we took Bombur home. They shared a cage and free roam area, and bonded together very quickly.” Do you think this worked and you didn’t need to do any pre-bonding because they where both kits? The same as when I got a pair of kits from the pet-shop when I was a child?

You mentioned that after the split that we keep them in their pens etc but 10 inch apart – This wouldn’t be possible due to the size of our living room, we read online it can be a minimum of 3 the max we could do them so they where near each other and not opposite walls would be around 6inch would that be enough? Would you also suggest not giving them any free roaming time in that month also then?

Jasper is around 2.5yrs and Eevee around 2.5 – 3yrs old we have very little background on them, other than they where both escapee’s and the owners didn’t want them back. So we’re going off very little information, I can tell you more about Jasper attributes because he’s been with us over a year however Eevee was very shy at the sanctuary but has really come out of her shell since she’s lived with us.

You didnt rush into prebonding, you rushed through prebonding.

You prebonded them for over a year? You stated earlier youve only had Eevee for 1.5 months. You stated you prebonded them for 2 to 7 days, and then had a date. Prebonding needs to be done for atleast a month. (“After two days of her using his toilet in the corner and her using her own pen, we swapped the litter trays from the pens and the food bowls and they where both fine” “On the 7th day of having her we put them on another date in the bath tub again neutral territory.”)

The paragraph regarding me comes off as a personal attack, comparing me and my knowledge on rabbits to that of a child. Mind you, attacks are against the rules. Youre also picking for straws and/or greatly misreading. Bombur and Blue were bonded uncorrectly with bad advice from another bunny related forum. They did bond very quickly even given bad advice; I also do not advise people to bond the way I was told to for these two (the advice being, put them together in a small area and let them work it out; they bonded within a week this way as neither fought [but a ton of humping], and only shared play time together after this bond was made; they lived separate for over six months). The part you are trying to reference, I think, is my Badger. Blue and Bombur got along well with Badger at the pet store, after an almost two hour long date We only brought Badger home after the two hours, knowing they will get along. I reread my bio in case I mistyped it, but I didnt, no where in there does it say Badger lived with them before prebonding. Actually, no where in my bio area does it even say they live together now (which they dont, Badger did bond into them for a good several months, but due to being disabled himself and having a lot of health issues, he needed to be kept separated; Bombur and Blue become heavily depressed when taken apart, theyre bond is still as strong as when we first bonded them). FYI, We prebonded the trio for about a month after taking Badger home. They never shared play time before prebonding, and only shared a cage after prebonding. Badger was not hormonal until 8 months, and I separated them a bit before that. Put them together after his neuter. Removed him soon after due to his disabilities and health.

Back to your paragraph about the topic at hand. You still need to give them free roam time for their health. Youll have to split their free roam time in half; bunny1 gets x amount of hours, then you put them away and let bunny2 hour to get x amount of hours. Youll have to block off each cage enough so they again cannot get to one another through the bars. Six inches should be fine. Ten inches are usually recommended since they cannot reach that far, and some rabbits can really stretch out their arms if they want to. As long as no bunny is reaching towards the other, six inches is fine.

[danielc9]

Posted By Mikey on 10/24/2017 10:58 AM

Posted By danielc9 on 10/24/2017 2:18 AM

Thanks for all the replies.

I just want to assure you we didn’t rush into the pre-bonding. We followed advice from forums here, forums elsewhere, the RSPCA website, our friends who have bonded rabbits and also our society where we adopted them from.

Both have been done for well over a year – I have got all this information on my bio also.
The industry I work in 90% of my work is investigation work. So I don’t rush into anything and make sure I use multiple sources for information using one source isn’t the best. However people here are from all our the world which is why we thought it was best to post here and have different ways of pre-bonding. We live in what we call a cottage flat in the north of the UK. So it’s a ‘house’ split into two flats but purpose built that way so it’s like an apartment on an apartment. It’s not a massive space and we used what we could, we are the upstairs part so we only have a downstairs which is a tiny cupboard and the front door, we have no garden and I don’t believe in keeping pets outdoor but that’s my opinion.

Could you advise what you mean by we completed lacked pre-bonding Mikey. As this makes it sound like you’re saying we didn’t do any pre-bonding at all.
I noticed on your bio this “The two buns met, and got along well at the store so we took Bombur home. They shared a cage and free roam area, and bonded together very quickly.” Do you think this worked and you didn’t need to do any pre-bonding because they where both kits? The same as when I got a pair of kits from the pet-shop when I was a child?

You mentioned that after the split that we keep them in their pens etc but 10 inch apart – This wouldn’t be possible due to the size of our living room, we read online it can be a minimum of 3 the max we could do them so they where near each other and not opposite walls would be around 6inch would that be enough? Would you also suggest not giving them any free roaming time in that month also then?

Jasper is around 2.5yrs and Eevee around 2.5 – 3yrs old we have very little background on them, other than they where both escapee’s and the owners didn’t want them back. So we’re going off very little information, I can tell you more about Jasper attributes because he’s been with us over a year however Eevee was very shy at the sanctuary but has really come out of her shell since she’s lived with us.

You didnt rush into prebonding, you rushed through prebonding.

You prebonded them for over a year? You stated earlier youve only had Eevee for 1.5 months. You stated you prebonded them for 2 to 7 days, and then had a date. Prebonding needs to be done for atleast a month. (“After two days of her using his toilet in the corner and her using her own pen, we swapped the litter trays from the pens and the food bowls and they where both fine” “On the 7th day of having her we put them on another date in the bath tub again neutral territory.”)

The paragraph regarding me comes off as a personal attack, comparing me and my knowledge on rabbits to that of a child. Mind you, attacks are against the rules. Youre also picking for straws and/or greatly misreading. Bombur and Blue were bonded uncorrectly with bad advice from another bunny related forum. They did bond very quickly even given bad advice; I also do not advise people to bond the way I was told to for these two (the advice being, put them together in a small area and let them work it out; they bonded within a week this way as neither fought [but a ton of humping], and only shared play time together after this bond was made; they lived separate for over six months). The part you are trying to reference, I think, is my Badger. Blue and Bombur got along well with Badger at the pet store, after an almost two hour long date We only brought Badger home after the two hours, knowing they will get along. I reread my bio in case I mistyped it, but I didnt, no where in there does it say Badger lived with them before prebonding. Actually, no where in my bio area does it even say they live together now (which they dont, Badger did bond into them for a good several months, but due to being disabled himself and having a lot of health issues, he needed to be kept separated; Bombur and Blue become heavily depressed when taken apart, theyre bond is still as strong as when we first bonded them). FYI, We prebonded the trio for about a month after taking Badger home. They never shared play time before prebonding, and only shared a cage after prebonding. Badger was not hormonal until 8 months, and I separated them a bit before that. Put them together after his neuter. Removed him soon after due to his disabilities and health.

Back to your paragraph about the topic at hand. You still need to give them free roam time for their health. Youll have to split their free roam time in half; bunny1 gets x amount of hours, then you put them away and let bunny2 hour to get x amount of hours. Youll have to block off each cage enough so they again cannot get to one another through the bars. Six inches should be fine. Ten inches are usually recommended since they cannot reach that far, and some rabbits can really stretch out their arms if they want to. As long as no bunny is reaching towards the other, six inches is fine.

I never said we had pre-bonded them over a year. You asked me if they where fixed and that was my response to that they have been done over a year.

I’m sorry that you’ve take my question as a personal attack, it’s not the case at all and I’m unsure why you have read it like that. I review everyones bios as I’m not going to take advice from someone who only has one bunny personally, thats what bio’s are there for, I feel I’ve hit a nerve and that’s not the case at all and I apologise if thats how you feel. However it’s a tone of language and working in Social Media doing investigations I understand tone of language which is why I didn’t take your comment as an attack saying we had completely lacked pre-ponding and asked what you meant on this. As again some people say 1week others say 2weeks  some people say 1 month I read elsewhere someone say 6months. 

I had a genuine question to what I had read which is why I asked if you think they bonded together quickly because they where both kits or not and I’ve seen a lot of the advice you’ve given people on other topic matters which was why I was intrigued to know how it had worked so quickly with your two. I’ve just checked again to see if I’ve misread it but I still see it as you had Blue, Blue was getting his nails trimmed and you seen Bombur and then after Blues nails where done you let them meet and took them Bombur home with Blue. Then shortly after you got Badger. I’m sorry if I’m still reading this wrong and you feel it is a personal attack however it’s just me being intrigued to how quickly Blue and Bombur bonded although you’ve now found out that was on bad advice. 

That advise sounds like the stress bonding? Is that correct? If so this isn’t something we really want to do and it sounds like you’re advising against this also.

“Back to your paragraph about the topic at hand. You still need to give them free roam time for their health. Youll have to split their free roam time in half; bunny1 gets x amount of hours, then you put them away and let bunny2 hour to get x amount of hours. Youll have to block off each cage enough so they again cannot get to one another through the bars. Six inches should be fine. Ten inches are usually recommended since they cannot reach that far, and some rabbits can really stretch out their arms if they want to. As long as no bunny is reaching towards the other, six inches is fine.”

In regards to this do you think we should do this straight away letting them have the free time when we bring the pens back together after the downtime from each other. There pens are big enough for them to have a good move around. Or leave them for a few days to get use to another bun being back in the same room.

When we had them on free roam time prior to the fight, they had a blanket draped across the pen of the one still shut in so they couldn’t get to each other but could smell and hear each other.

As I’ve mentioned prior Rabbits I had in the past where when I was a child around 10years old I’m not 24 and this is the first time of bonding rabbits that we hadn’t got together at the same time.

I spoke with the sanctuary today so they’re aware of what happened and if things don’t get on she will sadly have to go back to them. Jasper today seems to still be frustrated and has chewed through my internet wire, so I’m typing on a phone until my partner gets home so we can get a new wire as we only have the one car currently. So apologise for any errors in spelling etc.

[Mikey]

Posted By danielc9 on 10/24/2017 11:37 AM

I never said we had pre-bonded them over a year. You asked me if they where fixed and that was my response to that they have been done over a year.

I’m sorry that you’ve take my question as a personal attack, it’s not the case at all and I’m unsure why you have read it like that. I review everyones bios as I’m not going to take advice from someone who only has one bunny personally, thats what bio’s are there for, I feel I’ve hit a nerve and that’s not the case at all and I apologise if thats how you feel. However it’s a tone of language and working in Social Media doing investigations I understand tone of language which is why I didn’t take your comment as an attack saying we had completely lacked pre-ponding and asked what you meant on this. As again some people say 1week others say 2weeks  some people say 1 month I read elsewhere someone say 6months. 

I had a genuine question to what I had read which is why I asked if you think they bonded together quickly because they where both kits or not and I’ve seen a lot of the advice you’ve given people on other topic matters which was why I was intrigued to know how it had worked so quickly with your two. I’ve just checked again to see if I’ve misread it but I still see it as you had Blue, Blue was getting his nails trimmed and you seen Bombur and then after Blues nails where done you let them meet and took them Bombur home with Blue. Then shortly after you got Badger. I’m sorry if I’m still reading this wrong and you feel it is a personal attack however it’s just me being intrigued to how quickly Blue and Bombur bonded although you’ve now found out that was on bad advice. 

That advise sounds like the stress bonding? Is that correct? If so this isn’t something we really want to do and it sounds like you’re advising against this also.

“Back to your paragraph about the topic at hand. You still need to give them free roam time for their health. Youll have to split their free roam time in half; bunny1 gets x amount of hours, then you put them away and let bunny2 hour to get x amount of hours. Youll have to block off each cage enough so they again cannot get to one another through the bars. Six inches should be fine. Ten inches are usually recommended since they cannot reach that far, and some rabbits can really stretch out their arms if they want to. As long as no bunny is reaching towards the other, six inches is fine.”

In regards to this do you think we should do this straight away letting them have the free time when we bring the pens back together after the downtime from each other. There pens are big enough for them to have a good move around. Or leave them for a few days to get use to another bun being back in the same room.

When we had them on free roam time prior to the fight, they had a blanket draped across the pen of the one still shut in so they couldn’t get to each other but could smell and hear each other.

As I’ve mentioned prior Rabbits I had in the past where when I was a child around 10years old I’m not 24 and this is the first time of bonding rabbits that we hadn’t got together at the same time.

I spoke with the sanctuary today so they’re aware of what happened and if things don’t get on she will sadly have to go back to them. Jasper today seems to still be frustrated and has chewed through my internet wire, so I’m typing on a phone until my partner gets home so we can get a new wire as we only have the one car currently. So apologise for any errors in spelling etc.

Agree that tone of voice can be very hard over text based conversations.

Ah ok, I see where in my bio youre reading that now. They met face to face at the store, but that was only few minutes. There was meant to be a paragraph line in there (doesnt work in bios like in the forums). I didnt write how I bonded them in there. They each had their own cage (identical) but shared free roam time (8+ hours a day). At the time I wrote that bio, they were shared a new upgraded cage I bought. They bonded quickly into that cage. Sorry, wrote that over a year ago and never got around to updating it (mainly because the lack of being able to paragraph put me off, hah).

But, the advice I got for them from the other bunny forum was more of an old bonding tactic. Put them together in a small space, let them work it out and try not to intervene. Move to a bigger space, do the same thing. The advice is to let them fight it out if they want to, which is bull, but I did not know that before joining BinkyBunny. The crap advice I got from the other forum is the exact reason I joined BB, because the advice I read here was so, so much better. But, anyway, I was lucky that Bombur and Blue did not fight at all. There was some nipping and a ton of mounting, but no fur pulling, fighting, bunny tornadoes, ect. We got lucky playing with fire this way. It also was playing with fire, again, to put them together before they were neutered. I got lucky, again, because Blue never acted out hormonally, and Bombur took out all of his hormonal needs on a stuffed animal and not on Blue. You can bond two unneutered hormonal rabbits, but I really would not advise it. It could have ended horribly if either Blue or Bombur decided to take their hormonal drives out on one another.

Stress bonding is more of putting them into a box or tote, and then going for a drive or putting them on top of a shakey washing machine. It can definitely be a helpful tactic in some pairs. When you stress them both out, theyre forced to take comfort in one another being there. It works for some, shows no effect for others. I stress bonded my trio a few times to stop a nipping issue. If you dont want to stress bond, thats perfectly fine too.

I would leave them for a day or two before adding in the pens, after their separation. This so they can settle in again, knowing the other is there. Add on separate pens (or swap pen roaming sessions) after theyve settled again. 

A blanket is good as separation when one is free roaming. Ideally you would want them to also see one another (another pen around their cage/pen for double layer protection), but if you cant do that, Ive ready some users using blankets instead

Sorry to hear about the internet wire chewing, my Bombur did that a few months back :p I recommend, if possible, getting some plastic air tubing from a pet store (used for fish tanks) and putting your wires in those. Its not the best protection as they can still be chewed through if youre not there to stop the chewing in time, but its cheap and has saved several of the wires around my apartment.

[danielc9]

I’m glad to hear that and I’ve read through your bonding thread now you did.

I don’t want any arguments here and just to make some helpful online bunny friends here, have enough enemies with customers at work haha

If it does work for nipping issues it maybe something we try if we get to that point with them finally being able to spend sometime together. 

I do appreciate all your advice and I’ll keep you all posted with how things go and hopefully she gets to stay with us and doesn’t have to go back as we have fell in love with her.

I will keep that in mind using the extra pen parts when we have to put pressure on the blankets when that goes up again in free roam time when we get there!

Yes he is a naughty bun bun he stopped chewing for the last 6months so he’s clearly jealous with all the new surrounds was quite frustrated with that earlier but it’s been done now.

We use this http://www.argos.co.uk/product/9822870 and it’s quite good for the cables he just managed to pull at it somehow as he’s playing up. So brought some-more and a new ADSL cable and  finally back online.

I think the Apple store love Jasper though, the amount of new cables we had to get for the iWatch, iPad, iPhone and Macbook when he first moved in with us always there getting new ones pmsl. 

[Mikey]

Lol, no worries. Lots of awesome people on these forums to make friends with, for sure

I really liked how stress bonding helped with nipping. Nipping itself isnt really an issue because it doesnt hurt them, but if nipping becomes excessive, it can cause the nipped bunny to act out aggressively to get the nipper to stop. So stress bonding helped me there. I remember reading a few bonding posts where people had to stress bond for things like excessive mounting or chasing, too.

I hope bonding goes well when you start up again. Definitely post and keep everyone updated! Of course, posting pictures when you start bonding are always welcomed, too

Those wire wraps are pretty cool. I might consider looking into some (thanks for posting the link!) after I save up some money after my move.

[danielc9]

Will get pictures on when we start bonding them again 🙂

Thanks Mikey I hope it goes well too. 

Yeah they’re really good honestly I have them all around my living room to cover the wires, the one with the phone socket for the ADSL cable is at an angle so he’s just pulled at it pretty good, they’re also easy to remove wires or add more to the one cable snake if you need it 🙂

Good luck with the move I’ve done it 18times being a pads-brat, so I know how frustrating it can get.

[Author]

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