bonding behavior help

[lorule-rengoku]

hi, i currently have two female rabbits that are early in the bonding process. one is a mini rex and the other is a himalayan – both not spayed (the breeder advised against it because it shortens their lifespan) and both about the same age. i got the himalayan because my mini rex’s cagemate passed away about a month ago and she did not seem to be taking it well – not eating or drinking much, when i went to check on her she was usually just sitting in the same position, had no interest in toys, etc. the two mini rexes were previously living in my lanai in an enclosure but since her friend’s death i moved her inside so she’d have my company until i got her a buddy. the himalayan’s breeder said that she was more submissive, and it seems that my mini rex is more dominant based on how she acted with not only my himalayan but also her previous friend.

the two are still living in my room in a split cage so that they can smell and see eachother through the bars (they aren’t big enough to harm eachother through though). i switch them every day so that they won’t get so territorial and can get used to eachothers scent. i have their food and water bowls and hay set next to eachother so that they eat together. ive had them in this setup for a little over a week. they haven’t been introduced or physically together except for a few seconds by accident (while i was grabbing hay and the cage lid was open, my himi jumped over the divider into my mini rex’s area – they did not fight, rather just sat there and my rex was just sitting in the relaxed position she’s usually in when i’m petting her – i separated them immediately before anything happened). they usually ignore eachother or lay near eachother and don’t usually have any issues or scuffles through the bars except for usually once a day now for the past few days. what happens is my mini rex will be binkying around her cage and then my himalayan will run up to the bars and the two will try to scratch or bite at eachother. there usually isn’t many signs of aggression like ears back/tail up except for a split second and its usually coming from the himi. i have not heard them thump or grunt at eachother except maybe once or twice (mostly the first day they were living in a split cage). these little scuffles usually last 10-15 minutes and usually only happen once a day. what does this mean? can the binkying be irritating my himi? i was hoping to introduce them soon, but is this something i should wait out and see if it stops, or just go ahead and introduce them and see how they do? should i discourage these behaviors? also want to note that i’m aware female/female pairings tend to be more difficult and the main reasons i didn’t get a male was because of the neuter cost and that they tend to spray and generally be more messy than females.

[Wick & Fable]

How old are your rabbits?

Despite what the breeder mentioned, I believe spaying both rabbits would highly benefit, both individually and as a pair.
Spaying actually elongates the lifespan, as it eliminates the risk for uterine cancer.
If the breeder was talking about the risks of the spay procedure, they may not be aware of how common, routine, and safe rabbit spays are now. Spaying and neutering rabbits is very common now, and for good reason.

Hormonal-driven instincts and behaviors will be a major and potentially insurmountable obstacle to establishing a bond between them. I will not say it’s impossible, as it exists, but considering these rabbits are strangers and already show signs of reactivity via biting/scratching, it may be difficult to overcome it through the “typical bonding strategies” when hormones tare present.

You’ll find that the House Rabbit Society, which really sets the standards for best practices, also asserts that rabbits must be spayed/neutered before bonding can take place. Here are some resources about bonding from them which mention this:

https://rabbit.org/articles/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Bonding-Bunnies-PPforrabbit.org_.pdf

https://rabbit.org/better-with-two/

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[DanaNM]

I just want to echo everything that Wick said. I’m not sure where the breeder got the idea that spaying shortens the life span, because the opposite is true. Reproductive cancers occur in about 75% of rabbits over age 4, and the rates just go up with age.

You will want to spay both buns, then wait for their hormones to settle before you start bonding sessions (usually at least 3 weeks, but sometimes it can take closer to 6 weeks for hormonal behaviors to really drop) . This should also help with the aggression through the bars, as hormones make females even more territorial.

If their aggressive interactions are brief and they can’t actually nip each other through the fence, then it’s not too concerning, but if they seem like they are getting worse, you can put up towel or some other visual barrier so they can’t see each other.

How old is your new bunny? If she is young and hitting puberty, that would also trigger more aggression.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[lorule-rengoku]

i’m still doing research on the spaying, but i’m a little hesitant to trust HRS’ advice (from what i’ve heard from breeders i’ve talked to is that it is basically the PETA of the rabbit world; not trying to spark any arguments here, just stating my views on them). i’m not super trusting of the study DanaNM is referring to either, since to my knowledge it only looked at a small group of does and seems to me like it’d be disproven just by the fact that breeders usually keep their breeding rabbits for quite awhile with few issues. again, i’m not trying to start arguments or even really get into why i don’t believe in HRS’ views, and i’m still contacting different people for their advice.

but to answer both of your questions, my himi just turned a year old this month, and my mini rex is 11 months old.

[Susanne]

Well I’ve been to three vets with my rabbits and all agree about spaying. Actually I’ve never read it’s bad and always read and heard from vets and rescues how likely that females will get cancer if not. It’s not really a contraversial subject.  I think a breeder would sadly not keep rabbits as real house pets long term to know.. a rabbit just alive to produce more babies to sell would be who I’d be skeptical of… Not HRS.

[DanaNM]

I’m happy to share the literature with you if you would like. The study where that number comes from (“Spontaneous
Adenocarcinoma in Aged Rabbits”) followed 849 rabbits for 9 years, and another colony of 1375 rabbits for 30 years. Here’s the key quote: “The incidence of tumors increased with age, reaching approximately 60% in animals over 4 years of age, in both colonies cited, and 79% in Greene’s colony of 5-year-old animals.”

I would take breeder advice with a grain of salt, because they have very different motivations and ideas about rabbit care than most rabbit welfare organizations. Also just wanted to mention that this is a house rabbit specific forum, so we do encourage spaying, neutering, and indoor housing for rabbits.

From personal experience, every unspayed rabbit that came into the rescue I volunteered at over the age of 6 had cancer already. It may not kill them until age 7-8, so this could contribute to the perception that breeders have their females for “a quite awhile”, while a spayed female can live 9-12 years.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[FinntheLuckyBunny]

I’d also like to point out that I personally disagree with the breeder’s comment that HRS is the PETA of bunny care. I personally find HRS (and Binky Bunny!) pretty chill and unbiased sources of bunny care. Also, I agree with what others have said about spaying and neutering buns: It actually can lengthen their lifespans! I’d like to hear any concerns you have about “fixing” (spay or neutering) your bunny.

[Hazel]

The fact that the breeder encouraged you to try and bond two unspayed does shows they know next to nothing about rabbits, other than how to make more of them. They are much more likely to injure or even kill each other than to successfully bond. Breeders don’t have their rabbits fixed, for obvious reasons, so it’s not like they speak from experience when it comes to that. A doe suffering from reproductive cancer won’t show symptoms until about 3-4 years of age, which incidentally is the time when a breeder would retire a doe, not because they’re too old to breed but because the litter size starts to decrease. After they retire the doe will either be rehomed or culled. Either way, the breeder wouldn’t keep her around to find out if she has cancer or not. It sounds like you’ve mostly spoken to breeders about this, I would advise you to consult a few different sources, rabbit savvy vets for example, to allow you to build a well rounded opinion.

The astronomical cancer rate in intact does is well documented. May I ask, how did the breeder explain a spay would shorten their life span?

[jerseybunnies]

HRS and Binky Bunny are both valid sites. I completely support indoor housing for rabbits as well as spaying and neutering — it comes with so many benefits. I think you should spay the rabbits and then bond them once hormones subside. The breeder’s advice to bond two unspayed does just shows that his thoughts aren’t exactly correct, or anywhere near it. One simple google search can clear that up. I want to quote this from a Reddit user, since I believe they worded it right,

“Unfixed rabbits cannot truly ‘bond’. … The risk is even higher with rabbits still influenced by their hormones, you never know when one will decide they aren’t the dominant anymore and chase/ try hump the other (between females too it’s quite common.)”

Since you don’t believe in HRS, here’s a quote from the Animal Humane Society:

“Before introducing two rabbits, both should be spayed or neutered. Bonding is generally easier when rabbits have been sterilized. Wait 2-4 weeks after the surgery before attempting introductions. This allows for the rabbit to heal and for his/her hormones to balance.”

Here is the link to that website and the page, “Bunny Bonding Basics”: https://www.animalhumanesociety.org/behavior/bunny-bonding-basics#:~:text=Before%20introducing%20two%20rabbits%2C%20both,when%20rabbits%20have%20been%20sterilized.&text=This%20allows%20for%20the%20rabbit,hormonal%20behavior%20during%20this%20time.

Why you should spay your rabbits:

• They will live a longer, healthier life
• The risks of cancer & urinary tract infections are greatly reduced
• They will be calmer and easier to manage
• It will help with litter box training / habits
• They will be easier to bond
• It will help to diminish hormonal / territorial behaviors
• No chance of pregnancy
• Won’t be as aggressive
• Significantly adds to their lifespan

I have also worked with rabbits and I want to echo DanaNM… female rabbits who are unspayed have a huge chance of getting cancers. The truth is, animals don’t have voices. It isn’t fair for rabbits to have to live distressed lives where they are stressed due to their hormones or could develop painful and expensive health issues.

–Breanna

These are just my suggestions. Please seek an experienced veterinarian if you have medical needs / questions. Thank you! 

[DanaNM]

Thank you everyone for your input. The OP hasn’t replied in a while, so I am going to lock this thread to avoid piling on and repeating information.

OP, if you would like to reply, send me a direct message and I will unlock the thread.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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