Bonding Age Advise – confused.

[Deleted User]

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Hi There – I have just joined.

I have a Mini Lop male named Finn (neutered), that recently lost his sister, Patience. When I say recently I mean only a couple of weeks ago, which was really upsetting for me as I believe this was the result of neglect from the boarding place that had my rabbits over Christmas. Finn also needed an operation to have his 4 front teeth removed which he is recovering from very nicely. Finn is 6 months and I am planning on getting him a new friend. The death of his sister hasn’t effected him at all — in fact he doesn’t appear to be bothered. But i am conscious that if i leave it too long that bonding may become harder.

My question is, should I stick to a rabbit of his age (6 months)? Or can i go younger or older? I am experienced with rabbits but not so much around bonding as I have always had single older buns. But as a change since my last oldie passed away i went for 2 babies – now left with 1. Finn is very good about roaming around my flat and using his double tear hutch as the toilet (although i do not leave him out when I am not around). So i hope if i get another one this wont change and i hope the female would also be as clean (spayed)! 

I guess my main confusion is age. If i get a baby bunny I feel bonding might be easier but Finn would be bigger and as his still young he is very active and I worry he would hurt her. If I get a doe his age and un spayed I would need to keep them separate until she had been spayed. The only Doe’s I have seen that are already spayed are much older then he is. There are rescues but I am trying to consider all options.

I have a double tear indoor hutch and large dog create so I have separate accommodation if needed. But ideally id want to get them bonded asap so they have more space. I was going to get my buns a bespoke indoor pen but with Finns issues I have had to get him well first and wait until the Summer. His cost me 3 thousand in only 6 months lol.

Obviously Finn is still gaining weight from his dental issues but healing nicely. There is a Lionhead Doe, that is 8 months that I am due to see. She currently has a litter and so she wont be ready until Feb which is perfect for me. She’s the right age, the right size (i believe), but she will need spaying first. I only worry that a Doe thats already had a litter may be more “feisty”. Its a really funny age to pair for, as his not a baby but not an adult either!

Thanks

[Hazelbunny]

The age of the rabbits do sent really matter. If one of them is larger than the other make sure that if they fight to stop it right away.

[Sirius&Luna]

I’m sorry you lost Patience <3

Getting a baby doesn’t make an easier bond, as you can’t bond them until shes spayed anyway, so it actually just means you have to keep the bunnies separately for a few months.

The age of two bunnies doesn’t matter, obviously its best not to pair an older rabbit with a much younger one as the young one might end up bereaved early, but 8 months and 6 months would be fine.

I’m not sure that a doe that had already had a litter would be more feisty…

You would need to keep them apart for at least a month after her spay, and start pre-bonding.

[Deleted User]

Thank you for your responses!
Patience hadn’t been spayed when she died. As she was a Doe I wouldn’t want to spay her until she reached 6 months and she unfortunately died before she had been spayed. Finn was neutered at 3 months as he got hormonal pretty early! However, they both lived fine together. That said, there where brother and sister from the same litter. So even if I got a baby at 13 weeks and wouldn’t be hormonal yet, would that still be risky? Obviously, him and his sister where fine.

Just being clear helps me decide as I am looking at both tomorrow.

Also, would you advise I bond him sooner rather than later? I.e. would it be better to bond him now rather than wait until the summer? I still think the younger HE is the better.

[Sirius&Luna]

Generally, we say that both bunnies should be spayed/neutered as hormonal rabbits are unpredictable – while sometimes they do get along fine, they can also suddenly have fights out of nowhere, that can lead to rabbits needing surgery or even death. Your neutered male would also likely react to her hormones, and perhaps start humping her, which would annoy her and could end up in her lashing out. Perhaps Patience hadn’t reached sexual maturity yet, which is why they continued to get along.

It used to be the norm to keep unspayed females with neutered males, so it can be done, but personally, I wouldn’t take the risk. I don’t really see any benefit to it, as if they do have a serious fight it makes it much much harder to bond them later.

I don’t think sooner or later makes a huge difference to be honest. I imagine you’ll encounter the same problems either way – him feeling territorial about HIS space mainly. If you got a new rabbit now then you could start getting him used to her smells, and use the time while you waited to spay her to bond with her yourself.

The important thing is that you spend time pre-bonding once you get the new bunny, and don’t allow any fights to occur. If that’s done correctly, then likely they’ll be easy to bond once she is spayed.

[Deleted User]

Posted By Sirius&Luna on 1/15/2018 11:37 AM

Generally, we say that both bunnies should be spayed/neutered as hormonal rabbits are unpredictable – while sometimes they do get along fine, they can also suddenly have fights out of nowhere, that can lead to rabbits needing surgery or even death. Your neutered male would also likely react to her hormones, and perhaps start humping her, which would annoy her and could end up in her lashing out. Perhaps Patience hadn’t reached sexual maturity yet, which is why they continued to get along.

It used to be the norm to keep unspayed females with neutered males, so it can be done, but personally, I wouldn’t take the risk. I don’t really see any benefit to it, as if they do have a serious fight it makes it much much harder to bond them later.

I don’t think sooner or later makes a huge difference to be honest. I imagine you’ll encounter the same problems either way – him feeling territorial about HIS space mainly. If you got a new rabbit now then you could start getting him used to her smells, and use the time while you waited to spay her to bond with her yourself.

The important thing is that you spend time pre-bonding once you get the new bunny, and don’t allow any fights to occur. If that’s done correctly, then likely they’ll be easy to bond once she is spayed.

I didn’t think Doe’s got hormonal until 4 – 6 months? Obviously I am going to get the doe spayed regardless. But unlike the doe that has already had a litter and will clearly need to be kept separate until spayed. A Doe only 13 weeks is still a baby and isn’t hormonal yet? Obviously I am not going to put them to live together until she is spayed as they are not from the same litter, but couldn’t they meet and get the process started? Any good vet will not spay until she is 5 – 6 months hence why Patience wasn’t spayed when she died. I was going to get her Spayed in Feb at 7 months. 

I agree, if i start sooner rather then later I can get them bonded quicker. If i wait until Summer I am prolonging the process. Finn is so chilled, he was defiantly the submissive one and his sister was the leader out of the two. But obviously you never know what will happen with a different rabbit. 

[Deleted User]

You shouldn’t even do an introduction because if either one reacts badly, it could possibly set the tone for when you actually begin bonding.

[Sirius&Luna]

Well a doe at 13 weeks is going to get hormonal possibly 3 weeks later, so I’m just not sure what the point of introducing them would be. There’s no guarantee that your male would accept her immediately, they might well fight on introduction, whereas if you take it slowly there’s far less chance of them fighting.

I’m aware that good vets don’t spay until 5-6 months, the point is it’s dangerous to put an unspayed baby with a neutered boy.

[Deleted User]

Well they will be in the same room so they are going to see one another regardless. I could split my double tear hutch and put her at the top but that will be less space compared to one being in that and the other in a large create. I live in a flat so i wont be able to keep them from seeing one another completely.

[Deleted User]

Posted By Sirius&Luna on 1/15/2018 3:08 PM

Well a doe at 13 weeks is going to get hormonal possibly 3 weeks later, so I’m just not sure what the point of introducing them would be. There’s no guarantee that your male would accept her immediately, they might well fight on introduction, whereas if you take it slowly there’s far less chance of them fighting.

I’m aware that good vets don’t spay until 5-6 months, the point is it’s dangerous to put an unspayed baby with a neutered boy.

I am aware but how come my Doe was ok? I am just trying to understand to help me select the correct one. 

[Sirius&Luna]

You don’t need to keep them from seeing each other, this time can be spent getting them used to each other’s smells by swapping their litter trays or swapping them between hutches. Seeing each other is absolutely fine, but they mustn’t be allowed to nip through bars. One of my bunnies got a really nasty bite on the ear through cage bars (he was a baby and my spayed female didn’t like him in her house). But if you take it slowly, hopefully during this time you’ll see them start to lie near each other through the cages.

[Sirius&Luna]

Well if she was under 5 months then maybe she wasn’t hormonal yet. Or maybe you got lucky? As I said, not all bunnies will fight but lots will and it’s not a risk I would take.

[Deleted User]

Ok that fine, I should be able to do that. 

I am going to see both buns tomorrow, but I am probably thinking the one thats ready for a spay now.  I just hope that would be ok so soon after a litter. I am going to suggest (if i decide on her) for them to keep her until early feb so that she can recover from the litter, as I am going to get her spayed after a week or so of having her. 

[Deleted User]

Posted By Sirius&Luna on 1/15/2018 3:16 PM

Well if she was under 5 months then maybe she wasn’t hormonal yet. Or maybe you got lucky? As I said, not all bunnies will fight but lots will and it’s not a risk I would take.

They where from the same litter and there was only 3 in a litter. Plus they where both incredibly sloppy. Finn is very submissive and she was the type of bunny to lick you like a dog!

[Sirius&Luna]

I think once the babies are weaned she she should be fine to be spayed. Since they can get pregnant immediately they probably recover pretty quickly too ?

It’s great that Finn is submissive since girls normally like to be the boss

Hopefully since she’s just had a litter too she’ll be tolerant of other rabbits and used to being around them which again should make her easier to bond!

[Deleted User]

Posted By Sirius&Luna on 1/15/2018 3:27 PM

I think once the babies are weaned she she should be fine to be spayed. Since they can get pregnant immediately they probably recover pretty quickly too ?

It’s great that Finn is submissive since girls normally like to be the boss

Hopefully since she’s just had a litter too she’ll be tolerant of other rabbits and used to being around them which again should make her easier to bond!

Hopefully! I would have liked a another Mini Lop but i guess its not importent. Its Finns choice. 

Finn is just practising Free Range and his into everything at the moment. I have never had a rabbit quite as clean as him. Not a poop in sight — his toilet is on the second floor of his hutch that he pops to every now and again 

So I am HOPING the female will be as clean eventually.

[Sirius&Luna]

Haha well I have 3 single bunnies at the moment, and let me tell you there is poop literally everywhere. Be prepared for some territory marking when you bring a new bunny home, Finn’s perfect litter habits might temporarily go out the window!

[Deleted User]

I have just been to see Myrtle this afternoon. I didn’t see the other doe as I was messed about by the other lady. But I saw the main rabbit in question.
She is stunning, I defiantly took to her and there are more pros then cons. She has been fully vaccinated, I saw her parents, she is a little timid but quite calm and sweet natured, the the same age as Finn and the lady who has her at the moment is lovely.
The only Con is that she is a little bigger then i first thought, but i guess that could be mostly fluff! Obviously I am worried of the worst case scenario if they didn’t take. I will put that by her but that would be the only issue.

One question I have, is that if I got her she would be in a large dog create until she is bonded – that crate will be on the floor as its kinda big. Finn dose roam around my flat when his out and there is going to be a short period when she’s not spayed or has just been spayed. Its not going to be a good idea for Finn to get to close to her crate during this time, right?

[Deleted User]

This is her

[sarahthegemini]

He shouldn’t get close to her crate at all, regardless of whether she is spayed or not. To prevent any nipping or fighting.

She’s a beauty by the way!

[Deleted User]

Posted By sarahthegemini on 1/16/2018 11:10 AM

He shouldn’t get close to her crate at all, regardless of whether she is spayed or not. To prevent any nipping or fighting.

She’s a beauty by the way!

Thanks! She is.

If i am to bond them though he will eventually need to get closer correct?

[Sirius&Luna]

Not until you’re actually bonding them…

They need to be separated until she’s spayed, and until they’ve been through at least a month of cage swapping/litter tray swapping. If you see no aggression towards the others possessions after a month of swapping, then you can try introducing them face to face in neutral space.

[Deleted User]

Posted By Sirius&Luna on 1/16/2018 11:24 AM

Not until you’re actually bonding them…

They need to be separated until she’s spayed, and until they’ve been through at least a month of cage swapping/litter tray swapping. If you see no aggression towards the others possessions after a month of swapping, then you can try introducing them face to face in neutral space.

Ok, ill have to get one of those pen fences and put it around her crate so there is some buffer between her cage and him. But obviously they will see each other.

[Deleted User]

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Hmm, I have got the spare crate out and its quite big lol. I don’t think i am going to have the space to put a run around it to stop Finn from reaching her. I don’t have space for the large cage in another room either. I think the only way around it would be to use a run for both to run around in and not free range Finn during this time. 

[Harley&Thumper]

How comfortable do you feel drilling some holes in a sheet of plastic? You could make a trip to Lowes or a hardware store and get a sheet of clear plastic (plexiglass) to put around the new bun’s cage. That would be a small buffer that they can still see through.

[Sirius&Luna]

You could always drape blankets over the hutch of the one that isn’t running around, that’s what I used to do because I didn’t have space either. You do have to keep a close eye though, as a determined bunny can pull it down. You can also use bits of cardboard at least up to nipping height

[sarahthegemini]

I would put cardboard up and around the cage

[Deleted User]

True!

Let me have a look. I think because someone else is asking about the bunny, she wants to know if i am having her or let this other person. I love her but want to make sure i can do this first.

[Deleted User]

What about Banister Guard? Anyone ever used this? Is it easy to cut?

[Harley&Thumper]

Something like this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/KidKusion-KidSafe-Banister-Guard/5358624?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227001167266&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=40340494472&wl4=aud-310687322322:pla-63075276461&wl5=9006720&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=5358624&wl13=&veh=sem
It might need to be replaced frequently

[Deleted User]

Posted By Harley&Thumper on 1/16/2018 3:21 PM

Something like this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/KidKusion-KidSafe-Banister-Guard/5358624?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227001167266&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=40340494472&wl4=aud-310687322322:pla-63075276461&wl5=9006720&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=5358624&wl13=&veh=sem
It might need to be replaced frequently

Much cheaper in the US 
Its it easily cut?

I am hoping id only need it a few months — or until they bonded. 

[Sirius&Luna]

Honestly, regular cardboard boxes you can get for free from your corner shop work just fine there’s no need to buy special supplies unless you want to

[Deleted User]

I have to let her know by tomorrow morning my decision as she has others coming to look at her. Its such a hard decision as i have never done this before! Finn is so small and lean and she isn’t “large” but she’s a little bigger then him — would this matter? Then there is the risk of them not taking to one another, what do i do then? But at the same time they might really get along. Its so difficult. There are more pros then cons to this bun, but i am weighing heavily on the one con. Its a very difficult decision. Finn is a 6 month little terror who is into everything, and she is so sweet and shy.

Cardboard, i just got a big box from amazon filled with Hay!

[Sirius&Luna]

To be honest, it sounds like you’re not ready for this yet, which is fine! You shouldn’t feel rushed into the decision, because it’s a big commitment.

There’s always the risk that they won’t get along, and the only way around that is to come to an arrangement with a rescue where you foster and try to bond. But, with patience and the right methods, lots of people successfully bond two rabbits that they bought.

Size doesn’t matter at all. We have members with bonded giants and netherland dwarves. My own pair had a 1kg size difference.

I think you should take some more time to think about it and think about the logistics. There’s always more bunnies.

[Deleted User]

Posted By Sirius&Luna on 1/17/2018 3:42 AM

To be honest, it sounds like you’re not ready for this yet, which is fine! You shouldn’t feel rushed into the decision, because it’s a big commitment.

There’s always the risk that they won’t get along, and the only way around that is to come to an arrangement with a rescue where you foster and try to bond. But, with patience and the right methods, lots of people successfully bond two rabbits that they bought.

Size doesn’t matter at all. We have members with bonded giants and netherland dwarves. My own pair had a 1kg size difference.

I think you should take some more time to think about it and think about the logistics. There’s always more bunnies.

It is difficult. She had other people visit her today but they wanted to bond her with 2 other un-bonded doe’s and so she didn’t let her go. She would rather me have her due my experience. She has said that she would try to bond them for me (at an additional cost). She also said she would spay at her end, but my vets charge less then hers. 
maybe i could ask her if she would have her spayed at her end and then i will bring her home once spayed and try and start the bonding process then.

[Sirius&Luna]

She sounds like a responsible breeder, so perhaps you could ask if she would be willing to rehome her if you couldn’t make the bond work?

Having someone else bond them for you is great, it takes a lot of the pressure off you, and they already have the neutral space etc. But if she’s not experienced, then I wouldn’t want to give my bunnies to someone who hadn’t done a lot of successful bonds already, as it can be a risky process.

[Deleted User]

Posted By Sirius&Luna on 1/17/2018 6:07 AM

She sounds like a responsible breeder, so perhaps you could ask if she would be willing to rehome her if you couldn’t make the bond work?

Having someone else bond them for you is great, it takes a lot of the pressure off you, and they already have the neutral space etc. But if she’s not experienced, then I wouldn’t want to give my bunnies to someone who hadn’t done a lot of successful bonds already, as it can be a risky process.

She said that she dose bonding and has a lot of natural space (something i don’t have). But what i have asked is if she could spay her and ill pay the additional cost of the spay, and then i can bring her home and try bonding myself once she has healed. At least ill be bring a spayed doe home and i skip one step. Then it will just be a case of waiting for hear to settle down. It just shortens the time i have 2 separate buns in my lounge. If I have any issues with them I said id reach out to her as she has more natural ground. 

If she can agree to that i may do it. As Finn wasn’t fussed when his sister died, he wasn’t fussed with her either. His just not a fussed bunny but he did have is own problems with his teeth then. His also young and may not understand death. He hadn’t been with her long, and i did leave her body outside his cage for a little bit.

At the end of it all, i am going to have this no matter which rabbit I go for. Even a rescue bun isn’t flawless as they can play up when you bring them home. 

[Sirius&Luna]

Let us know what you decide

[Deleted User]

I think I am going to go for a baby. I feel more comfortable with a younger, smaller rabbit and feel the situation would be easier to control then with a fully grown doe that has already had a litter. I have also been advised by a respected rescue that would be the better option for me. Even though she would (and will be) spayed I feel it would easier as both are babies — Finn still has about another 5/6 months before his a year old and fully grown. Plus I am not sure if i would prefer another Mini Lop for him. My mother always said, if you are not sure about something – don’t do it!
Rescues near me have long waiting lists for Does and have nothing available, but the lady with Myrtle has a couple of baby Mini Lops and Lionheads I could look at. Id rather get one now as she will need spaying over summer appose to Christmas. Finn will be getting his new pen orded next week!

[Deleted User]

I think I am going to go for a baby. I feel more comfortable with a younger, smaller rabbit and feel the situation would be easier to control then with a fully grown doe that has already had a litter. I have also been advised by a respected rescue that would be the better option for me. Even though she would (and will be) spayed I feel it would easier as both are babies — Finn still has about another 5/6 months before his a year old and fully grown. Plus I am not sure if i would prefer another Mini Lop for him. My mother always said, if you are not sure about something – don’t do it!
Rescues near me have long waiting lists for Does and have nothing available, but the lady with Myrtle has a couple of baby Mini Lops and Lionheads I could look at. Id rather get one now as she will need spaying over summer appose to Christmas. Finn will be getting his new pen orded next week!

[Sirius&Luna]

Fair enough. I hope you find the right bunny soon

[Deleted User]

Problem is i don’t know which one to pick! I met her lion heads and they are gorgeous. She has a couple of baby mini lops, but they look more airplane (not that it matters!). Minilops have more of an outgoing character i find. I always found Lionheads to be a bit timid? I had a Lionlop named Lucy before Finn and she was fine. But i am not sure if there is much difference between Lionheads and Lionlops.  

Bunny shopping is so hard 

[Sirius&Luna]

Baby mini lops often have airplane ears, I imagine that they’ll drop. My lionhead is my most friendly and outgoing bunny but it does totally depend on the bunny itself, I don’t think breed is actually that relevant to personality. I always pick the bunny that comes out to meet me first, cos its the most confident!

[Deleted User]

Her buns go so quick I wouldn’t get time to get there in time! can’t expect her to hold all her does for me to get there 

I have met her lionheads so i know what they are like, not met the lops. I am thinking a more chilled bunny as his sister was active and he seemed more shy with her (mind you that could have been his teeth). But also his had a tough time and although his pretty active a chilled bunny might be easier for him.

[DanaNM]

I just skimmed this thread, so sorry in advance if I say something that was already covered or I misinterpreted your question!

As to the original question, our rescue says they have noticed (just over their years of experience) that many rabbits seem “ready” to accept a mate (bonded mate that is) around 8 months to a year, so if you are looking for candidates, that age range might suit you well.

Concerning picking out a baby, member BunNoob did this, and fell in love with the baby during all the waiting time for his neuter etc, but then bonding didn’t work out and she was very sad. It’s impossible to know how a baby’s personality will be towards the other bun once they are spayed/neutered and grown up, so it’s a bit of a crap-shoot.

I’ve bonded both rabbits that I let one rabbit “pick out” on dates, and others that we just wanted to bond (taking on a rabbit from a friend, for example), and had success both times, but I have had an easier time when I let Bertha “choose” (6 weeks vs. 3 months).

I’m also a huge proponent of going to rescues if it’s an option… and there is the added benefit if you pick out a bunny that’s a few years old hopefully any serious medical issues would have shown themselves already, and you’ll get a better sense of the bun’s personality.

Not to get on a soapbox or anything

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Deleted User]

Posted By DanaNM on 1/18/2018 11:16 AM

I just skimmed this thread, so sorry in advance if I say something that was already covered or I misinterpreted your question!

As to the original question, our rescue says they have noticed (just over their years of experience) that many rabbits seem “ready” to accept a mate (bonded mate that is) around 8 months to a year, so if you are looking for candidates, that age range might suit you well.

Concerning picking out a baby, member BunNoob did this, and fell in love with the baby during all the waiting time for his neuter etc, but then bonding didn’t work out and she was very sad. It’s impossible to know how a baby’s personality will be towards the other bun once they are spayed/neutered and grown up, so it’s a bit of a crap-shoot.

I’ve bonded both rabbits that I let one rabbit “pick out” on dates, and others that we just wanted to bond (taking on a rabbit from a friend, for example), and had success both times, but I have had an easier time when I let Bertha “choose” (6 weeks vs. 3 months).

I’m also a huge proponent of going to rescues if it’s an option… and there is the added benefit if you pick out a bunny that’s a few years old hopefully any serious medical issues would have shown themselves already, and you’ll get a better sense of the bun’s personality.

Not to get on a soapbox or anything

Thats what I originally wanted to do. But having spoken to a few rescues near me they have waiting lists for single spayed does (in the uk). I think its a good thing that more people are going to rescues. But it makes doing that a problem. I don’t think him or his sister had a close bond, but they put up with each other lol. I don’t think its in Finn to fight and even if he did his got no teeth, thats not to say he can’t use his paws but that would take a little longer to cause damage then a bite. So it makes splitting them up easier if i need too and less risky. Plus his still a baby himself really.

I have put a deposit on a baby. 

[Deleted User]

Why were you so set on getting a girl? Male-male bonds can work really well, especially when you think about how territorial females can be.

[Deleted User]

Posted By Asriel and Bombur on 1/18/2018 2:51 PM

Why were you so set on getting a girl? Male-male bonds can work really well, especially when you think about how territorial females can be.

Female / Male is safer and less risk of fall outs. I prefer male rabbits so i would have loved to have gone for a male rabbit if i felt confident. Finn is a sweetie and hasn’t got a bad bone in his body, but id have no idea what the new male was like.  

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