Bonding advice on 2 dominant buns?

[holtzchick]

A little background on these buns. I found Phoenix in August and had her spayed and she is just a doll, so very affectionate but also demanding of cuddles! She has a very easy going personality and very “bubbly” and curious.

 

Hippogryff is 5 years old, I recently adopted him from the shelter, it’s been about a month now that I’ve had him here. He was bonded before to a female but she died and the owner said it stressed him out too much so he was put up for adoption so he could once again be bonded. His foster mom tried to bond him with her flemish but in her words, the flemish would just try to rape him and it was difficult due to the size difference. 

She had told me that Hippo was a sweetheart. I find him to be very, pushy. He definitely has his boundaries, even with myself when I am petting him, the second I touch a wrong spot, he grunts at me. He does not reciprocate any affection towards me, just rather soaking in the petting and flopping over.

 I have had these two living side by side for the last 3 weeks and for the final week since having introduced them in the tub, been switching cages daily. Everything is good, no aggression from the get go, the real issue comes when they want grooming. Phoenix is the first to groom him, and then she wants to be groomed, when he doesn’t groom her back, only pushes his head lower, she nips him and pulls fur, he nips her back and I stop it before it escalates.I have tried his favorite treat (banana) on her forhead and he will not touch it, and in today’s session he actually nipped her because she refused to groom him! She did groom him a bit but that was only so he would groom her back, once she realized it wasn’t going to happen she ignored him and came over to me for petting and groomed my hand instead. While this isn’t too bad, now everytime she see’s him she wants to nip him when he does not groom her.

 I try to subdue it by petting both of them, which works fine, but how can I help them progress from this stage? I know it hasn’t been long and I need to keep at it. What I’m trying to say is will it be possible for them to have a happy bond? Should I allow the nipping and fur pulling? I did try that the other day and he grunted at her so I stopped it, both are very dominant in that sense. I have tried stressing them out as well, it didn’t really help, they just lay together which is good, but he does not want to groom her back. OR should I switch him out for another bun since I know she will readily groom another bun as long as she gets groomed back. She just wants some lovin’ ya know

 

I’m very lost, I had posted this on another forum but didn’t get too much insight. The topics on this one seem to be great help! 

 

Thanks all! 

[LittlePuffyTail]

I went through something similar when I was trying to bond my lop with my Bridge bunny. One way grooming. Some bunnies love to groom, some don’t. I would definitely keep at it. This is a pretty minor bonding hurdle. They are not fighting and I think, with time, they will work this out for themselves. Maybe try longer bonding sessions to give them more time together.

[tanlover14]

I have to agree with LittlePuffyTail, you should definitely keep at it and this is definitely a minor hurdle! I would definitely give longer bonding sessions too. My buns sometimes refuse to groom each other like such and they’ve been a bonded trio for months now.

How hard are they nipping? Sometimes the only way they’ll figure it out between themselves if they can be a little aggressive towards each other. My girl was very aggressive towards my boy but only because she wanted to figure him out on her terms not his. He gave up and now they are total lovebugs. You don’t want them to injure each other or anything but if it’s only a small amount of nip and small nip back they just could be battling it out. If you get too nervous you can keep a spray water bottle close to spray them if it goes too far. I know when bonding I would get really nervous and break it up to soon and neither could figure out the hierarchy in a sense. As soon as I gave them more space to work it out they quickly became bonded after that.

[holtzchick]

Thanks you make me feel so much better! It’s honestly pretty hard, they’re not just light nips at first they are but when he retaliates he nips hard and then they’re pulling a lot of fur, I think it would probably end up in a fight. The only reason I don’t want it to go on is because I don’t want either hurt (I’m a little tight on money at the moment due to switching jobs and don’t want to spend a lot at an emergency vet if something were to happen) and I don’t want them to feel terrorized after because of a negative experience.

I’ve watched videos on YouTube where one bunny nips the other one and the other one just jumps away but it’s a little more aggressive with these two! Should I let them just nip it in the bud literally or :/? I’m all out of ideas

[holtzchick]

Tonight was a little weird. I decided to go back to the beginning and just stress them in one crate. It went well, she tried to nip him but this time, I had a spray bottle handy and that was the end of that. She even groomed him longer. Then I let them about the tub, he actually had the nerve to nip her hard, I figured I’d see where it takes them, but it got aggressive and even though I sprayed at them, I had to pull them apart and calm them down. I think I may just stick with using the crate for now since you can tell they are both VERY comfortable with each other, they groom themselves in each others presence but they will not for the life of me stop nipping… After I broke them up and calmed them down, they got into an almost chinning war with putting one head lower than the others’ and were nose to nose as if to say “GROOM ME” “”NO YOU GROOM ME FIRST!!”” and presenting and attacking, funny part is there was absoultely no aggressive behavior as a warning, more so just a nip that started the mini fight…. Time will tell… They enjoy the company of another rabbit you can tell, I just don’t think they enjoy each other :/

Every site that I read says that if the bunny attacks the presenting bunny over and over (which both are now doing) it’s not worth the hassle in trying to bond them. I’m thinking I should maybe tone the sessions down to 2 minutes a day for a week to see how that works out.
I feel bad for my two, they smell like water and banana and they’re all sticky

The foster mom had NO insight for me what so ever and she just directed me to the adoptions coordinator who I have a feeling will NOT email me back. I was having issues before I adopted him with that, as soon as I wrote to the director, magically the adoptions coordinator started responding. I understand these people are busy, but I’m not being pushy. I also wasn’t allowed to do any bunny dates as there is no actual location just foster homes for all bunnies.

Anyways, long rant, if you have any insight please do post, it would help oh so much!! I will also keep documenting their sessions here.

[littlepinksock03]

Hi!

 

I was wondering if you had had any progress. I just adopted a fixed male bunny to pair with my fixed female. I’ve had Aura (the female) for four years and decided she needed some more company. The first day Benjamin mounted her, so I thought she was going to be submissive. However after that she hasn’t let him near her and starts a lot of fights. Today Benjamin tucked his nose under her chin, showing SHE was the dominant bunny.  But they still nip really hard back and forth, which turns into fights.

 

Any improvement in your situation that you can help me with?

[tanlover14]

Hey there,

I actually don’t think I read your last post on here. I hope you continued with the bonding sessions because although many people think it may not be WORTH the bonding, I wholeheartedly disagree. I’m a firm believer that almost any buns can bond if given the right guidance. You simply have to make a positive environment for them together that makes them associate the other bunny with positive things.

In toning down the sessions, I think you’re doing the opposite of what you hope to accomplish. I’m currently in the process of bonding my bonded trio and another bunny. The more aggressive I am with the bonding sessions, the better it has gotten. First mistake when putting them back into the crate — DO NOT switch them to another environment until you cement their progress IN the crate. It’s only time to move on if you’re moving them to a more stressful environment because they’re not getting along in the crate and it’s not even stress to help them progress OR if they are cemented in the one area and you try in a new one. When trying in a new one, if they break out back into a fight it’s back to the crate! Trying different types of stress bonding is also a good way to switch up the stress so they don’t get used to the stress. I’ve been switching out of the bath tub, to a laundry basket with me dragging and shaking it, to an area I have portioned off that is TINY and just enough for them to move around and every time someone nips or bites they get sprayed and if it escalates any further I turn on the vacuum to scare them again.

Littlepink, when a bunny tucks his nose under the other bunnys chin he is demanding grooms.. not submitting. Have you tried the trick of rubbing banana on their heads? It doesn’t work with mine because none of them like banana but if they do this will encourage them to “groom” the other bunny because they want to lick the banana. I have one really fluffy headed Lionhead though and I put a Craisin (a favorite around here) nestled in his fur on the top of his head and my other one who has been picking fights ever since my Lionhead decided to mount him finally began grooming him again (trying to get to the craisin). But it is a positive start! I would try this trick and see if it helps if you havent!

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