Bonding a singleton to an already bonded pair *Bam, Sally, and Harley*

[NewBunnyOwner123]

Not sure how to start up the bonding. So I just grabbed Harley and Bam and placed them in the bath tub. My reasoning was because Harley gets worked up and takes his frustration out on Sally when Bam is near by. And I was worried that if I did a date with Sally and Bam and place Sally back in the buns room, Harley would get upset that Sally smells of Bam and reject her. So I took Harley, the dominate bunny of my pair and Bam the singleton and started their first bonding session. 

It didn’t really get started for awhile because I had them divided in the bathtub. I was naturally hesitant because the night I brought Bam home, Harley was extremely aggressive attacking even my husband and I because we so much as smelt like Bam. growling, lunging, and biting. So yeah, I was hesitant lol. I finally removed the divider. And Bam went straight to Harley and started humping him. Harley took it for like 2-3 seconds before he was showing he had enough so I tried pushing Bam off but it proved difficult. He had a pretty strong grip on Harley’s fur and pulled out quite a few chunks in the process. Harley hasn’t humped Bam yet. Bam is also so, so much smaller than Harley. Harley weighs 5 pounds more than Bam. 

I didn’t let the bonding session go on too long. I was really nervous. I tried stressing them but banging on the bathtub walls didn’t work. Either did the vacuum. Bam did all the humping but Harley fought it a lot. Harley spent a lot of time laying down…he looked hot. I left it off when Bam trying to drink some water off the floor of the tub and Harley just laying there. 

When I put Harley back in the room with Sally I wanted to sit and watch them for awhile to make sure Sally didn’t react to the scent of another bunny. She was more cautious than anything and sniffed him a little bit. But she didn’t seem to care. And they are both relaxing in the bedroom. 

Should I do a bonding session with Sally and Bam too later today? Or should I do a whole triple bond? Or should I continue doing one on one dates. Still not sure how Harley will react if I did a one on one date with Sally and Bam.  

[NewBunnyOwner123]

Just did a one on one with Bam and Sally. It went okay I think. Bam did humping and Sally allowed it for awhile. But she started growling at him when he wouldn’t let off. I’m not exactly sure how to pull him off because he has a really good, strong grip on them and I feel like it hurts when I pull him off but if I allow him to continue, I fear a fight will break out. Other then that I just sat there for awhile petting them both. If bam moved too quickly Sally would growl and box with her front paws. She’s always been really vocal though. She even still growls and boxes at me on occasion if I’m annoying her and don’t stop. I think these two will be easier than bam and Harley. I’ll update again tomorrow when I do their bonding session

[LongEaredLions]

This sounds like how my trio was. I would just keep doing what you are doing, and perhaps do some group stress sessions. I hope it goes well, I will keep following this thread.

[NewBunnyOwner123]

How do you think I should push bam off when he’s humping? He has a really really strong girl and it looks really painful pulling him off.

[LBJ10]

Is he actually biting while humping?

[Hazel]

You could try spraying him with a water bottle, that might get him to let go and then you can push him off if he doesn’t retreat on his own.

[NewBunnyOwner123]

No he’s not biting. Just has a very strong grip on a mouthful of hair. When I pull him I check and don’t see any bite marks almost immediately after pulling him. But a few hours later I went back to check Sally again and I saw red whelp circles where the fur was pulled out :/ I felt TERRIBLE for pulling him off now but I know a fight would break out if he didn’t listen to her growls and ease up on humping. I’ll try the water bottle. But he’s not afraid of banging on the tub walls or the vacuum cleaner. And I’m pretty sure I’ve sprayed him with the gun when he first got home because he was chewing on my carpet and he wasn’t phased ONE BIT on getting wet. But I’ll give it a go again.

[LopNessMonster]

Last night when Ollie was humping Nessie he did latch on a couple of times. This doesn’t hurt them too much since they have thick fur, but obviously it makes pulling them off difficult. If I couldn’t push Ollie off to the side gently, I just picked him up. I don’t know if this is the best approach but he did let go of her and it did get him off of her.

Humans, however, if they try to bite you while humping you, it hurts. So glad Nessie quit after she got spayed.

[NewBunnyOwner123]

Yes but it left whelps where the hair got pulled out it wasn’t bleeding but obviously red and irritated from the hair being pulled out.

[LBJ10]

It isn’t unusual for hair to be pulled out. Perhaps if you put your hands around his belly for a few seconds would distract him enough? Then when he loosens his grip, you can redirect him to something else like a stuffed animal.

[LopNessMonster]

Maybe try a spray bottle? It might surprise or annoy him into letting go.

[NewBunnyOwner123]

Thanks for tips guys. I’ll try it next time.

[NewBunnyOwner123]

Did a bonding session and it did not go well. I’m seriously considering just rehoming Bam. I can’t handle this stress. They don’t like one another. Neither can get near each other without a fight breaking out. The longer I left them in there the more the aggression showed. I’m not even gonna start bonding Sally to bam because it’s pointless to put her through the stress if Harley and Bam can’t figure it out. Bam is too dominate and Harley is too dominate. I KNOW Harley will not give in and I don’t know Bam enough yet to decide if he would. But I’m feeling really overwhelmed.

[LopNessMonster]

How many sessions have you done total? It took Nessie and Ollie several before they stopped fighting but they have made a huge amount of progress. Were you able to find something that stressed them out? For me, Nessie wasn’t afraid of a vacuum cleaner or the loud noise of me banging on the box, or even me shaking the box. I did get results using a hair dryer (cool setting) blowing them both in the face. They hated it and kept hiding their faces under each other. After a few minutes of hair dryer in a box, I put the box on its side in the bathtub and put a pile of lettuce outside the box. Nessie would get over the stress first and hop out to eat the lettuce and then Ollie would huddle in the corner of the box for a while before venturing out.
I read somewhere that eating is a social behavior so unlike dogs (who fight over food even if they are best buddies), bunnies will bond over sharing a meal.

[NewBunnyOwner123]

This is third session and it’s getting worse instead of better with each one. I can’t even trust them next to each other without them biting one another. So I wouldn’t even trust them enough to “hide their faces under one another” because of what I keep seeing. Harley grabbed Bam by the face, they flipped over on their sides and Harley started kicking him over and over again in the belly. No broken skin though. Bam just has a bald spot above his eye. Even after I split the fight up if push them on opposite ends of the bathtub and they’ll be fine. Cleaning themselves off from the fight. But if Bam even takes a step towards Harkeh he goes in the defensive and will pursue hpBam again.

[LopNessMonster]

Mine will still go at it like that if they are out in the open instead of neutral territory. If you have a cardboard box you might want to give this a shot (after a couple days of rest). I put the less dominant rabbit in the box first and then the other one just a few seconds later. I put my hands over both of their heads for a few seconds so they can’t charge and give them some quick pets before picking up the box. I hold the box in the air so the floor (of the box) is not really level. While I walk down the hall to the bathroom I move the box around and tilt it back and forth gently enough that I’m not throwing them around violently but strongly enough that they slide around and can’t get enough traction to fight each other. Then I hold the box at an angle so they slide down into one corner and hit them with the blow dryer before they can even get a chance to get their footing. The hair dryer is a couple feet from their face and on the highest blow setting (lowest temp setting) and they are so miserable with the air in their faces that they don’t even want to move. Since they are stuck in a corner they can’t run around to the other side of the box or really even lunge at each other since they are basically forced into a bunny pile.
Anyway, just an idea if you want to try again. It was a huge huge improvement for me.

Oh and one other thing I saw on another thread here was putting them both in a tiny box just big enough for the two of them and putting a strainer over the head of one rabbit to prevent bites.
But if you’re overwhelmed, definitely give it a rest for a few days, they can tell when you’re stressed too

[LBJ10]

What about a “nice” car ride? That might stress them out enough if they don’t like being in the car.

[Sophie, Lola, and Bailey]

When I first got Lola, the bonding seemed hopeless.  But I separated them for a couple of days in completely different rooms so they couldn’t even see each other.  Once they calmed down, I tried again in neutral territory.  It went really well.  I think the fact that each of them had their own “safe room” really helped them with the bonding.  I guess they knew that they would have alone time soon enough.  They also did better when I was in the area with them.  Lola would scratch and lunge at Bailey when Bailey would try to groom her.  But if I was petting Lola when Bailey approached her, she was fine.  Just wear long pants and shoes in case of a kerfuffle.

[Slowebot]

It sounds like not all of the bunnies are stressed by the bathtub. I would suggest moving it somewhere even more unfamiliar than the bathtub. Even the scent of the room could seem familiar. I was never successful with bathtub bonding, only one bunny was stressed in the tub, the other one would just viciously attack the other so much I literally could not take my hands off him.
On a whim of frustration, I took my bunnies outside my apartment complex to the parking lot and put them in a pen there. The smells in combination with the sound of the cars and wind really put both of the bunnies on edge, actually stressing out my aggressive bunny more than the other. Even just right outside the front door might make a difference. I didn’t break up a single fight when the bunnies were outside and my confidence was instantly boosted. I really encourage you to give it a shot, if you don’t have a pen just tape boxes together, find anything just to try it out and see if it works. They nipped each other but it really wasn’t aggressive, more like communicative and soon settled next to each other. I had never let them be so close together because I was afraid the aggressive one would bite the new one’s face but I could see such a change in body language.
It’s really easy to be so frustrated, trust me I know, but give something brand new a shot.

[NewBunnyOwner123]

No growling or lunging here

I rotated the cage to where they can not only see him, but smell him while they all ate their dinner. You can tell Harley isn’t too happy about it. 

[NewBunnyOwner123]

Thanks Slowebot! I was actualling thinking JUST that. The mere scent of the house is causing them to become territorial. But I didn’t bond today. They need to cool off after. BUT I did move Bam’s cage into the buns room. It’s going okay so far. They can only see him through the plastic. On the other side it’s mesh but I only rotate the cage to that side when I am able to watch them. Or during dinner I rotated the cage.

[LongEaredLions]

Having Bam’s cage in the buns room seems like a good idea.
I know it’s hard, mine were like this too. You just gotta persevere, sometimes it’s got to get worse before it gets better.(((hugs)))

[JoyCounts]

I’m going to be starting my trio soon too, so I’ll be watching this and keeping my fingers crossed for you. I’ve had my rabbits pens next to each other the way you do for the past couple of weeks or so while I’m letting the last of his crazy male hormones die down (I’ll be starting up next week hopefully). I think that is a great way to get them used to the idea of each other. There used to be a lot of aggression through the bars, granted I’ve spaced them apart a few inches so they couldn’t actually reach, but now aggression has seemed to die down and at least a level of acceptance has started. I did the same thing when bonding my original pair, and it eventually got to the point where they were “snuggling” through the bars.

[LopNessMonster]

Dunno if I mentioned it yet but another thing you can try is swapping their cages or litter so they have to live with the smell of the other bun without being able to attack him (you will see lots of chinning!). I’m glad to see the bonding is going a bit better now!

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