Bonding 2 boys *Bonded!*

[Sialia]

NOTE: UPDATED WITH MORE RECENT PROGRESS (scroll down to 18 Apr post)

Hi everyone,

 We have a 2-year-old neutered male mini lop and a little over three weeks ago, we adopted a 3-year-old neutered male Holland lop.

We started out with dates in our bathtub (neutral territory) over about a week and a half, then moved onto dates in our hallway (semi-neutral; each rabbit could take turns in there, and then we let them in there together for half-hour dates for about a week).  OldBunny quickly established his dominance by mounting NewBunny, which NewBunny tolerated.  There was no fighting.  If NewBunny got tired of being mounted, he’d hop away and OldBunny didn’t usually pursue him, or would hop up to him and groom him.

Things were going so well (OldBunny grooming NewBunny, sharing meals of hay and salad, lying next to one another) that I decided to try introducing them to what would be their shared territory (our kitchen/dining room).  This had been OldBunny’s territory previously so I completely cleaned out his NIC condo and totally rearranged it, replaced the litter boxes, etc.  Once I felt that it had been neutralized, I let both bunnies into the kitchen.  As in the neutral and semi-neutral territories, OldBunny mounted NewBunny, which NewBunny tolerated for the most part.  OldBunny groomed NewBunny, and they ate together and lay down together.

However, I still didn’t trust them together alone so at night for the next 4 days I had them in the shared area during the day but put NewBunny back into a separate bedroom overnight.  That meant OldBunny stayed in the “new” shared territory overnight, which in hindsight was probably a mistake.

Since things were going well with them in the shared territory during the day, I decided to try a 48-hour bonding session with them left in the shared territory together, in the hopes that it would cement their bond and I could leave them together.  So they were in there all day yesterday and overnight and were doing great – no scuffles, just OldBunny grooming NewBunny, eating together, cuddling, etc.  Everything was great until about an hour ago when they started fighting – chasing, fur pulling.  No injuries.  I separated them and they retreated, then after a few minutes, OldBunny approached NewBunny and started grooming him and then grooming himself.  They seemed to have made up and sat together for about 15 minutes.  Then they started moving around the kitchen and had a face-off – NewBunny refusing to groom OldBunny and all hell broke loose again.  This time, when I pulled them apart they’d just fly back at each other so I finally completely separated them and put NewBunny into the bedroom.

So I don’t know where we’re at.  Should I not have separated them?  Should I go back a stage or two?  I think the problem is that NewBunny refuses to groom OldBunny.  They’ll push their foreheads together and eventually OldBunny gives in and grooms NewBunny. 

 I think I just need some advice.  I thought we were doing really well but maybe I’ve rushed things.

 Any comments or suggestions will be much appreciated. 

Edited to add: I forgot to mention The Banana Incident.  A few days ago, I decided to try smearing banana on OldBunny’s forehead to encourage NewBunny to groom him.  BIG mistake!  NewBunny went berserk, trying to mount OldBunny and chasing him all over the place.  OldBunny looked completely confused.  I separated them so I could wash the banana off of OldBunny and when I put them back together, they seemed okay.  OldBunny tentatively came up to NewBunny, and NewBunny went into a submissive position and let OldBunny mount him.

 

[Sialia]

UPDATE:

I decided to follow my gut and put the bunnies back together in the kitchen/shared area.  They sized each other up, then did a forehead-to-forehead face-off, and then started fighting again.  I stuck with them and kept separating them so they couldn’t hurt each other, and if they took a breather on their own, I just talked quietly and reassuringly to them.  Eventually, NewBunny went onto a ledge in the NIC condo and OldBunny went into a corner on the ground floor of the condo.  NewBunny proceeded to eat a ton of hay and then go to sleep, while OldBunny just looks shell-shocked.  OldBunny eventually came over to me and I was able to check him over for injuries – he’s fine but just looks stunned.  And keeps glaring at me with an expression that says “I blame YOU”.

They seem to have reached a truce for the moment.

Not sure what to do next.  Stick with them in the shared space?  A car ride to stress them out?  I haven’t tried that yet.

[Sialia]

Another update and some pictures…

After what seemed like a truce, the fighting started again so I separated them overnight.  They’re still separated now.  Not sure what to do next – maybe go back to bathtub dates, or try a car ride?  Any advice would be appreciated.

Here are some pictures:

First is OldBunny (tortoiseshell) and NewBunny (white) on an early bathtub date.

 

Second is the two of them on a date in semi-neutral territory (the hallway).  OldBunny had just finished grooming NewBunny and then flopped on his side.  They lay together like that for quite a while.

 

Third is the two of them sharing a plate of salad in the shared kitchen, outside their NIC condo (which stays open all the time).

 

[MoveDiagonally]

Generally instead of separating it’s recommend to stress bond them. Separating can lead to more fighting because it can teach them that aggressive behavior gets them what they want (the other bunny away from them).

If you stress bond them and return them to their shared area and they continue to fight you can either keep stress bonding them, returning them, ect… Until they get along or take a step backwards in the process and returning to semi neutral. I don’t think taking a step back is ideal (you’re so close!) but it really depends on your schedule/available time, ect…

Hope that helps! Keep us posted. Beautiful bunnies by the way.

[Sialia]

Thanks very much, MoveDiagonally.

I like your advice to try stress bonding.  I’m going to try that tomorrow and see how it goes.

Do you think I should try and make the shared kitchen area more neutral before putting them in there together?  I got some advice on another forum to move OldBunny out of the kitchen and into a temporary area somewhere in the house for a couple of weeks so that I can make sure that the kitchen and NIC condo will be neutral for both of them when I put them back in there.  I think part of the problem might be that OldBunny still sees the whole kitchen area as “his”, even though I vinegared and rearranged and moved the NIC condo.  Plus, he’s been in there now while being separated from NewBunny.  I was thinking I could remove the NIC condo entirely for now and just put them in a small x-pen.

Do you think it would be worth it to try that?  Or should I just stick with the now non-neutral condo?

I very much appreciate your advice.  It’s good to hear that we might be getting close – I had the feeling they were making good progress.

[MoveDiagonally]

Yes, definitely a good idea to move him out until they’re bonded. Is it possible for you to move the condo to another area and house him in it? If you can do that I would sanitize the shared area and do some longer semi-neutral sessions for maybe about a week, stress bonding if there are fights/troubles. Keep them both out of the area that will be their home if possible. After that I would use the X-Pen (no condo) and try cementing them in the shared area (neutral-ified). If they fight I would stress bond them and return them to the session. After not fighting for 24-48 hours they should be alright together.

One way of breaking up fights without separating is making a loud noise. I did this while bonding my trio and it worked pretty well. While bonding my quintet though it was less effective with one trouble making bunny in particular so it might not work for all bunnies. I put pennies in an empty can and taped one side shut. I would shake it and it would startle them out of their fight. Another member here with 5 bonded rabbits bangs pans, clapping hands etc… With good results.

After they have been cemented is when I would try cleaning and re-introducing the condo.

[Sialia]

Update:

I tried a round of stress bonding yesterday.  I put both bunnies in a tall laundry cart, just big enough in the bottom for them both to fit and tall enough they couldn’t jump out.  It’s wheeled so it made it easier to move them around, jiggle them, etc.

They huddled together the whole time, each taking turns occasionally to look up a bit but mostly just staying cheek-to-cheek.  Sebastian (OldBunny) even groomed JoJo (NewBunny) for a few seconds.

I left them in there for 30 minutes and then put them together in a cordoned off section of hallway, about 2 feet x 4 feet, with a box of hay.  They each explored a bit, and Sebastian ate a bit of hay, but then after a couple of minutes they started doing head-to-head stare downs, and then circled and started to fight.  I broke them up with a strainer but they wouldn’t stop fighting so I put them both back in the laundry cart.  They continued to try and fight in there, despite me shaking it around like crazy, so I pulled them both out and separated them again.  In hindsight, I think I should have just separated them after their initial 30 minutes in the cart so that we’d end on a good note.  That’s what I’ll do tonight when I try again.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I had been banging a pot and lid together when they initially started fighting in the kitchen but they seem immune to that now.  I’ll try the can full of pennies idea!

Still trying to figure out where to move Sebastian’s condo since I’ve also got to make room for our Christmas tree somewhere.

Here’s a pic:

[LittlePuffyTail]

I read that you should not put buns together immediately after stress bonding. Before I read this, I experienced a big fight when I put my buns together in a pen right after a car ride. They totally took out all the stress of the car ride on each other afterwards. Best to let them bond during the stress and then have separate time to calm down afterwards.

Your buns are adorable!

[Sialia]

Thanks, LittlePuffyTail.  That makes sense.  I’ll keep them apart after the next stress bonding session.

[Sialia]

18 April update:

So after all of our attempts back in December, I decided to give the bunnies a break.  I realized that JoJo (the new bunny) was probably feeling pretty stressed out after having been brought to this new place, with new people, a dog, etc. and that the added stress of bonding might be too much on top of that.  So I decided to take a step back and give him some time to get settled in.

For the last few months, we’ve kept JoJo and Sebastian (the old bunny), completely separated.  Sebastian has the full run of the kitchen/dining room, while JoJo has the run of my son’s bedroom.  They each get turns to run around the living room and hall (usually twice a day, each, for a couple of hours at a time).  I put a shared litter box in the living room so they’d stay used to each other’s smell.

JoJo has settled in really well – much more comfortable exploring, affectionate with us, etc. so it seemed like time to try them together again.

So tonight’s story:

I used a section of the hallway that’s neutral and blocked either end off with baby gates covered in blankets.  The area is about 2m x 1m.  I put in a brand new litter box and a small bin of hay, plus a small chair for me.

After I herded the bunnies in, they completely ignored each other.  Sebastian went to one corner and thumped a bunch of times, while JoJo went to the other end and hid in the corner between the chair and gate.

After a few minutes, Sebastian decided to stuff his face with hay while JoJo stayed in hiding in the corner.  Eventually, Sebastian decided he’d better look for an exit and explore a bit.  This meant he came face to face with JoJo a few times – they stared each other down, nose to nose, but Sebastian always backed off.  At one point, JoJo had moved out of his corner a bit and Sebastian moved into it, stretching up to try and climb over the gate.  JoJo gave him a little nip on his butt but nothing else happened.  Sebastian looked a bit taken aback but hopped back over to the other end of the area and JoJo stayed on his side.

Sebastian started to groom himself and eat more hay.  JoJo came out from his corner and ate a bit of hay, then went back to his corner and groomed himself a bit, too.  This went on for a while.

After about 30 minutes, JoJo did a full-side-flop in his corner and then stretched out looking pretty relaxed.  Sebastian came over to about 6 inches away from JoJo and flopped.  However, he was right between my feet and seemed to realize that wasn’t very comfortable so he moved over a bit (under my legs, still about 6 inches from where JoJo was lying down) and stretched out there.  They stayed like that, stretched out several inches apart for about 10 minutes.

Finally, JoJo decided to eat some hay from where he was lying.  Sebastian stayed lying down nearby.

After about 50 minutes total, it was time for everyone (me, included) to have dinner so I shooed each bunny back to his room and gave them each a carrot plus their dinner salads.

I was pleasantly surprised (knock on wood) at how non-stressful the whole thing was.  I’ll do another session tomorrow.  I’m also going to do some rearranging with their living arrangements.  I never got a chance to move Sebastian out of his territory (kitchen) to neutralize it and now I have the problem that JoJo’s very settled into his territory (bedroom).  Since they’ve both been spending a lot of time in the living room, I think that’s where I’ll move them eventually (after they’re bonded).

Some pictures:

1) The bonding area

2) Flopped close to each other, by my chair

3) Nose-to-nose but no fur flying

 

[LongEaredLions]

Yay for resumed bonding! I hope it goes well and your bunnies are so cute!

[Sialia]

Thanks, LongEaredLions!

I decided to set up a new neutral area in our office, which is more comfortable for long bonding dates.  I added a clean litter box and hay, plus a small rug the bunnies have never seen.

09:30 a.m. Herded both bunnies in with strawberries (JoJo first, then Sebastian – opposite of yesterday).

They ran around nervously, then had some scuffles, which I separated after a few seconds with a splatter screen (a round mesh thing with a long handle for putting over a frying pan).  Just a bit of fur flying but not too bad.

They did that on and off for the first 10 minutes, then they settled into an uneasy truce, with Sebastian moving around exploring, and JoJo huddled in the corner.  Sebastian peed in the litter box once.

After about 20 minutes, JoJo moved out a bit to check out the hay box.  That was okay for a couple of minutes and JoJo even went into the litter box and peed.  Eventually, Sebastian came too close and they scuffled again.  I separated them after a little bit of scuffling.

After about 40 minutes, Sebastian mounted JoJo – at first, JoJo tried to run away but then he just lay down flat and let Sebastian do it.  I allowed it for a little while (Sebastian mounting, wandering away, mounting again – JoJo just lying there).  Finally, Sebastian settled in beside JoJo, up against him, grooming himself.  After another few minutes, Sebastian wandered away to the litter box and I stroked JoJo’s head to reassure him – as soon as Sebastian saw that, he came running back over but just settled in and started grooming JoJo’s head.  He stayed there for quite a while before leaving to explore again.

They’ve now been together for an hour, JoJo’s still in the corner, flattened out, and Sebastian keeps exploring, then coming back to sit right up against him and groom himself.

Update: after another hour, JoJo’s out of the corner and eating hay in the litter box, while Sebastian grooms himself and eats hay nearby.  Time to separate them, unfortunately, as I have to go out for lunch.

Here’s a pic of the set up:

Here’s a pic of the boys together after Sebastian finished mounting JoJo.

 

[Sialia]

Bonding day 2, cont’d:

I put them together again for about 2 hours last night.  JoJo spent the first half hour frozen in the litter box.  Sebastian went into it and peed at the opposite end from JoJo, then roamed around looking for an escape route.   After 45 minutes, JoJo ventured out and tried to go over to the hay box.  As soon as Sebastian saw JoJo moving, he chased him back into the litter box and mounted him a couple of times, and then chin-marked his head and back.  Things calmed down after that and Sebastian let JoJo wander around a bit and eat some hay, mounting him and chin-marking him a couple more times.  They had a few nose-to-nose staredowns, and Sebastian always backed off.  He gave JoJo a couple of licks but that was it.  At bedtime, I gave them each a bit of lettuce and herded them back to their rooms.

Bonding day 3:

I put them back together first thing this morning.  JoJo was much more relaxed right away.  He didn’t stay frozen in the corner – instead he started exploring near Sebastian.  They’ve been together for 2.5 hours today and Sebastian has mounted JoJo a couple of times but that’s it.  At one point, I gave them each a bit of carrot and that seemed to trigger a territorial reaction in JoJo, who mounted Sebastian.  I let it continue for a few seconds and then pulled them apart.  Sebastian then mounted JoJo, who flattened out and let him.  JoJo hasn’t tried it again.  A while later, I gave them each a tube stuffed with hay and JoJo let Sebastian eat from his, which I figure is a good sign.  I also gave them a fleece blanket and they explored it together.  JoJo pooped on it but then let Sebastian lie down on it and dig in it without confronting him.

At one point, Sebastian spent 10 full minutes giving JoJo’s head a thorough grooming, after which JoJo did a full flop. 

Now they’re lying beside each other on the blanket, with Sebastian in a flop and JoJo in a loaf.

Some pics:

Sebastian grooming JoJo

 

Sharing the blanket (JoJo was more relaxed than he looks in this picture – the camera distracted him).

[LongEaredLions]

Looks like it is going very well!

[Sialia]

Thanks, LongEared Lions!  I’m really happy (and pleasantly surprised) with how things are progressing.

Today was a marathon day – the boys were together for 7.5 hours straight!  Here’s the story:

I decided to build a new neutral area for the boys, this time in the living room, which will be more convenient for bonding sessions.  The office was a bit annoying because their area was blocking the door.

I set up a large x-pen and covered the sides with towels.  I vinegared the floor (just in case) and added a clean mat, blanket, litter box, and hay box.

At 11 am, I put JoJo in first, then Sebastian.  They both ran around exploring and JoJo ate the raspberry that I had given to Sebastian when I put him in.

After a minute or so, Sebastian made a perfunctory attempt to mount JoJo, who half-heartedly moved away over to the blanket and then lay down, like, “Fine, go ahead, but at least let me get comfortable first.”  Sebastian mounted him a couple of times and gave him a couple of licks on his head.

Once that was over they spent a while looking for escape routes together – Sebastian is very curious and adventurous so of course he was all over the place, digging, trying to climb out, etc., and JoJo, who is much more reserved and cautious, followed him around watching.  It was pretty cute.

Eventually they settled down to eat some hay and JoJo did a full roll-onto-his back flop on the blanket.  Sebastian came over and stretched out next to him and they both fell asleep.

I had planned to only keep them together for a couple of hours but they were doing so well (and looked so happy cuddled up together) that I decided to just see how long we could go.

They were mostly fine for the rest of the day except that at one point (after they’d been together for a few hours and had been napping beside each other), Sebastian decided to start mounting JoJo a lot.  JoJo would run away and then let Sebastian mount him for a bit, then run away again.  Finally, he would climb into the hay box, which was just big enough for him to lie down in and Sebastian would give up trying to mount him in there (he’d do it a bit but the box was too small).  So then JoJo stayed in the hay box for long stretches, napping, with Sebastian napping on the floor beside him or on the blanket on the other side of the pen.  Every little while, JoJo would come out and eat some hay or have a drink of water and eventually Sebastian would start the mounting again and JoJo would end up back in the hay box.  I decided to keep them together since JoJo wasn’t fighting back at Sebastian and Sebastian was letting JoJo be for long stretches (and letting him eat and use the litter box). 

Finally, at 6pm, I gave them dinner together.  I gave them each a plate of salad and other veggies and they ate them quite happily.  Sebastian came over to check out JoJo’s plate and had a couple of nibbles, but decided that there wasn’t anything better there so went back to his own plate.  JoJo didn’t object to Sebastian eating from his plate.  After they finished eating, they both started grooming themselves and so I decided that was a good note to end things on. 

I’ve got to work tomorrow but I’ll continue this tomorrow evening for a few more hours.

Here’s the new x-pen set up in the living room:

Here are the boys snuggling (JoJo’s flopped on his side, which I rarely see him do):

 

Eating dinner together:

 

[LongEaredLions]

Looks like they are getting close! I will keep following this thread for updates!

[Sialia]

Bonding day 5:

I put the boys in the pen for 2.5 hours this morning.  Everything was fantastic.  Eating, napping, snuggling, Sebastian grooming JoJo (but JoJo still hasn’t groomed Sebastian), and best of all NO mounting by Sebastian. 

However, this evening was a different story.  They were together for another 2 hours and the first hour was great – eating (even sharing a plate of dinner), Sebastian grooming JoJo, etc.  But then after an hour, Sebastian started his incessant mounting of JoJo.  JoJo would allow it for a bit and then run away, eventually taking refuge in the small litter box.  Sebastian would leave him alone for a couple of minutes and then start again.  JoJo ended up crouched right down in the box.  I let Sebastian do it a bit but only for a few seconds and then removed him.  I also tried squirting Sebastian with a spray bottle and that got him to stop for a minute or so but then he’d start up again.  The thing that confused me was that he’d stop in the middle of mounting and aggressively groom JoJo’s head and back.  Every little while, he’d wander away to groom himself or eat some hay and JoJo would sit up.  Then after a few minutes, Sebastian would be back to mounting.  During a few breaks, Sebastian even did full flops onto his back right beside JoJo. 

So I don’t know what any of that means.  I’m very confused. 

I’ll have time for another long session tomorrow evening.

[Sialia]

Bonding day 6:

Decided to move back to the smaller space in the office to try and curb Sebastian’s incessant mounting.  The boys spent 2 hours together.  I started them off with some dinner (two plates of salad, which they shared quite happily).  The rest of the time was spent alternating between peaceful moments of eating hay and lounging, and frenetic moments of Sebastian frantically mounting, roughly grooming, snuggling up to, binkying in front of, or flopping next to, JoJo.  JoJo tolerated this display for the most part, only running away some of the time.

At one point, Sebastian did a flop onto his back squished in between JoJo and the wall.  When he realized that wasn’t comfortable, he shifted so that he was still lying stretched out but with his feet right on JoJo’s head.  Pic below:

Bonding day 7:

Today I moved back out to the living room x-pen.  The boys were together for 6 hours, and for the first 5.5 hours, they were peaceful and snuggly.  Sebastian spent a lot of time grooming JoJo.  He only mounted JoJo a couple of times and that was mostly just a short precursor to grooming, after which he’d do a little binky.  JoJo looked totally relaxed the whole time, and he even did the deadest dead-bunny flop that I’ve ever seen him do. He was sound asleep and the sound of my camera didn’t even wake him up (pic below). 

When they woke up from their naps, Sebastian started to get more aggressive with the mounting and JoJo started to run away a bit more so I waited for another lull and then separated them.

I really don’t understand Sebastian’s behaviour, though.  I think he gets more obnoxious with the mounting during his active times of the day.  He doesn’t seem as bad from mid-morning until mid-afternoon, when he’s in a quiet period.  It’s later in the day that he starts to get more obnoxious.

Here’s a pic of JoJo doing the dead-bunny flop (this is the first time I’ve seen him do one so deep):

[tanlover14]

I started reading to offer comments & help but towards the end it looks like it’s going very well!

Nothing better than a pair of bonded buns!

I noticed on the last post you mentioned how the obnoxious humping seems to be his normal active times…. that’s VERY typical so I wouldn’t worry too much about that. They will push past it when they finally have figured out a pecking order (which it almost sounds like they have – just need to cement it!).

[Sialia]

Thanks, Tanlover. I’m happy with the way things are going and it’s GREAT to hear that Sebastian’s behaviour is normal. I’ve been worried that JoJo will suddenly lose patience and a fight will break out but so far he’s been amazingly tolerant. So it’s very reassuring to hear that this is typical and that they should be able to work it out eventually.

[tanlover14]

Don’t worry too much! One of mine has an obsessive mounting behavior he does to ALL the other bunnies whenever he is introduced to a new area. It annoys them all and they’ll nip at him to get him away. But that’s the extent of it. He did it when they were all bonding excessively as well. Once they settle into their relationship together it should decrease! Even if JoJo does get annoyed, it won’t destroy a bond. Rabbits like humans can annoy each other as well!

[Sialia]

Thanks, tanlover.

So things are still progressing well, I think. They were together for almost 14 hours yesterday. They seemed to be getting bored in the x-pen so I let them come out into the living room (not a very big room; they’ve both spent lots of time in it so it’s semi-neutral, I guess).

They were great – just hanging out, eating, snuggling, etc. And best of all, NO mounting by Sebastian. However, after they’d been together for about 9 hours, suddenly JoJo decided to try mounting Sebastian. And he promptly fell off onto the floor on his back. Which was pretty funny. Then he tried again and Sebastian tolerated it, amazingly. JoJo tried a couple more times and Sebastian started to circle so I pulled them apart, expecting it would escalate, but that was the end of it. Sebastian just started grooming JoJo again and they were fine. They were together for another 5 hours after that.

They were together this morning for another couple of hours without any mounting, and they’re together again now. So far, so good.

[tanlover14]

Sounds wonderful!! Hope everything keeps going smoothly, they are doing great together!

[Sialia]

Update: We’re now on bonding day 17.

Things were great for a few days – Sebastian and JoJo were together in the living room for a couple of hours each morning and 3-4 hours each evening. They just hung out, snuggled, napped, ate salad or hay, did lots of binkies, etc. Sebastian groomed JoJo lots but JoJo refuses to groom Sebastian. I even let them explore the hallway together one day since Sebastian seemed to be getting a bit bored in the living room. That was fine (it’s a semi-neutral area that they’ve both spent lots of time in individually).

Then a couple of days ago, Sebastian managed to get into JoJo’s room while I was herding them into the living room. I decided to see how it would go. They were pretty good in there – they were together for about an hour and a half with very close supervision by me. They ate their salad together and Sebastian explored. JoJo tried to mount Sebastian once and they circled a bit so I pulled them apart and they were fine.

Since then I’ve only let them in the living room but JoJo’s been more interested in mounting Sebastian. They’re still spending lots of time just hanging out, snuggling, eating, etc. but every once in a while, JoJo will try mounting. Sebastian will either run away or circle a bit. I’ve stopped intervening, though, because it usually ends with Sebastian grooming JoJo and then sitting together, or Sebastian just running away and JoJo not bothering to pursue him. JoJo also finally sort of groomed Sebastian but it was rough grooming of his back, which may have been a precursor to mounting that didn’t end up happening. Sebastian’s stopped mounting completely – now he’ll just sort of put his head over JoJo’s back like he’s considering it but then ends up grooming him instead. In between the bouts of JoJo’s mounting, they stretch out together, eat, etc. There’s no fighting – not even scuffling except for the short circles.

So I think things are still going okay but I’m not really sure what to do next. I guess just keep letting them have as much time together in the living room as possible. My problem is that I won’t have a chance to do a really long marathon bonding session until the last week of May as I’m too busy with work and then out of town for a week. While I’m away, I’m going to make sure my husband and son keep putting them together for living room dates but they might not get as much time together as they are now.

I do have two days this week that I could take off from work but I’m worried it won’t be long enough. I could put them together right after work on Monday and then have them together straight through until Thursday morning when I would have to work again. Would it be worthwhile to try it anyway? Any input would be appreciated. I don’t want to ruin things if they seem to be going well.

[tanlover14]

I would say try it if you’re able to get the days off!

Two days should be long enough, I always take three as a precaution when I take off days for marathon bonding but have never gone over into it. I usually will do Friday night when I get home from work and usually I’m fine leaving them together Monday morning. My plan typically goes along the lines of Friday night putting them in the area they have been sharing with everything they’ll need. And then I just watch them until 24 hours have passed. Give yourself 24 hours to watch them in what will be their shared territory as well. That’s the *main* step. How they do when you put them into what you will use forever. Mine has always been a used territory before which has what has made it such a huge step. Will yours be transitioning to an area that one has previously been living in?

[Sialia]

Thanks for the feedback, tanlover.  It’s much appreciated.

I was planning to do the marathon bond in the living room, where they are now.  They’ve still got their x-pen in there but I’ve been leaving it open so they can go in and out.  I’ll then keep them living in the living room for several weeks or longer while making sure they’re fully bonded.  I can’t decide whether to lock them up in the x-pen for the overnight parts of the marathon bond.  Neither of them are locked up overnight in their current areas so they might be really annoyed.

Once they’re bonded, they’ll be essentially free range but confined to one room overnight and when we’re not home.  My original plan was to use the kitchen/dining room for that.  It’s currently Sebastian’s territory so while they’re living in the living room, I’ll clean and rebuild Sebastian’s NIC condo and then introduce it to them in the living room, and also fully clean/vinegar the kitchen.  After they’ve been in the living room for several weeks, I’ll move them and the condo back into the kitchen.

My other option is to move them into my son’s room, which is currently JoJo’s territory, but there’s no room in there for the condo.  If I did that, I’d do it similarly to the kitchen plan, waiting until after they’ve been in the living room for several weeks and after neutralizing it.

Does this sound reasonable?  I’m so paranoid about them suddenly starting to fight like they did during the marathon bond I tried back in December.  But that was my fault for a variety of reasons (putting them into Sebastian’s territory without fully neutralizing it, not taking long enough for the dating sessions, etc).

[tanlover14]

I think your plan is perfect

These things DO happen – sometimes you go to marathon and it starts a huge ruckus. But you can always stop the marathoning and do regular sessions if you don’t think they’re ready. You, honestly, will never have a definite time to try. It’s all trial and error with bonding!

Don’t let the first few scuffles (if they have any) discourage you from the marathon bonding. Especially after they have remained together for a longer period of time. It’s difficult for them too – it’s a lot to adjust their lives to as well. Be patient and your boys will get there! I don’t think you’re going too fast either. Just be willing to not get upset if it DOESNT work exactly the way you hoped when you try marathoning! I always tell people – one of the most important parts of bonding is keeping a positive outlook and not getting frustrated (but believe me! I know it can be hard!).

Hang in there!

[Sialia]

Well, here we go! I booked the next two days off work and put the boys back together in the living room about half an hour ago. I don’t have to be at work until 11am on Thurs so hopefully things will be cemented by then.

[tanlover14]

GOOD LUCK, Sialia! Keep us all posted!

[Sialia]

So far, so good. It’s been over 24 hours now. No mounting, no scuffling, nothing. Just napping, snuggling, eating, etc.

I slept on the couch last night and the main thing I noticed was that Sebastian eats his hay REALLY loudly. Will update again tomorrow.

[Sialia]

Still good. The boys have been together for two and a half days straight now, since Monday at 4 pm. Everything’s been great – no fighting or scuffling. Still just hanging out, eating, snuggling.

This morning, though, at breakfast time, Sebastian was running around getting excited like he usually does at that time of the morning and he decided to mount JoJo. JoJo ran away, and Sebastian chased him and they circled each other a bit. Nothing came of it, though. Sebastian ended up just grooming JoJo and then they got distracted when I brought their plates of salad in. There’s been nothing since then (that was about 4 hours ago). Now they’re snuggled under the coffee table together.

Hopefully things will be okay as I have to go to work now for a couple of hours.

[tanlover14]

How are things going now, Sialia?? Fingers crossed everything is still positive with your boys!

[Sialia]

Things are fantastic, thanks!

I’ve been hesitating to post an update and put “bonded” in the title because I don’t want to jinx it…but I think they’re bonded. They’ve been together continuously now for just over 3 weeks. They cuddle together all the time, and JoJo finally started grooming Sebastian a couple of weeks ago. He doesn’t do it as enthusiastically as Sebastian does but at least he’s making the effort.

The next big step (and why I’ve been hesitating) is that I’ll be moving them into the kitchen/dining room, which was Sebastian’s territory. I’ve still got to completely vinegar the whole thing but neither bunny has been in there for 3 weeks. I’m going to wait another week and then move their x-pen in there.

I’m looking forward to getting them out of the living room since they’ve started being aggressive towards our dog and I don’t want that to continue. They’ll still be allowed into the living room when we’re home but it won’t be “their” territory, like they’re treating it now. Usually they get along great with her (snuggling, grooming her, etc.) but since they’ve been living together in the living room, they’re getting more territorial about it (especially the couch).

Anyway, thanks for checking in! I’ll post again in a couple of weeks once I’ve put them into the kitchen.

[tanlover14]

A new bond can sometimes put a bit of a strain on other relationships (humans included) so I would be careful with them around her (for obvious reasons) but wouldn’t be too worried. My buns typically go back to “normal” once they settle down into their bond and it becomes normal I guess you could say!

I’m so happy to hear it’s doing so well. Update when they have been transitioned to what will be “their” space so we all know how it went! So excited and happy for your family!

[Sialia]

That’s good to know that it’s normal for them to behave a little differently early on after bonding. I have noticed that Sebastian is being a little more high strung than usual (and that’s saying something because he’s normally cranked right up to 11).

I just finished scrubbing down the kitchen (mopped the floor with a vinegar/water mix, scrubbed any surface that may have been peed on or chin marked or even glanced at), removed his old NIC condo, and rearranged the furniture. I’m going to move them and their x-pen into there ASAP. Hopefully things will continue to go well. I’ll post an update soon.

[LongEaredLions]

Any update? How did they do?
I hope everything went well!

[Sialia]

Well, I’m doing it – I’m calling them bonded!

After vinegaring and scrubbing the whole kitchen, I let Sebastian and JoJo in there just to explore (mostly to test it out and see how Sebastian would react).  He was fine – he seemed happy to be back in there but didn’t act territorial or anything.  So I let them just go in and out freely for the rest of the evening. 

Yesterday morning, I moved their pen into there and rearranged it, added some more ledges and new mats, and put in their aspen branches (which they love).  They were watching and exploring while I did all of that.

They were able to get used to the pen and kitchen all day before I closed up the kitchen last night at about 11pm (French doors at one entrance and a wooden baby gate at the other).  I went past the door a few times to keep an eye on them and they were fine – snuggled up together in the pen for a while, and then out on one of the mats on the kitchen floor.

When I came out this morning, Sebastian was hanging out on the top level and JoJo was on the floor at the bottom.  As soon as I opened the kitchen gate, they came out to explore the rest of the house and then went back in to snuggle again.

Thanks so much for all the advice and support.  Bonding them was definitely stressful and challenging at times but it’s been so worth it.  They seem so happy together.  JoJo’s coming out of his shell, he’s a bit less cautious and a bit more affectionate (still not as over-the-top with affection as Sebastian).  He’s even grooming Sebastian regularly now.  And Sebastian just seems so happy to have a friend.  

I’ve attached some pics.

The new pen set up in the kitchen:

 

The boys hanging out:

Hanging out with Rosie the dog (it looks like Rosie’s pawing Sebastian’s head but she’s actually pawing her moose antler while Sebastian and JoJo eat their aspen branches):

[tanlover14]

First of all, CONGRATS!!!!!!!!! I always try to keep pushing people along because it really is sooooooo worth it in the end!!!!!!!!!

Second of all, what a unique pen for them!!!! Your enclosure is so creative and unique! I absolutely love it!

[Sialia]

Thanks, tanlover!

As they say, necessity is the mother of invention. Sebastian likes getting up high to survey his kingdom so I used two old IKEA nesting tables and a little footstool. The rug that the stool is on is rubberized underneath so it won’t slip. Luckily the bunnies don’t chew at their mats. The hay holder is a wire storage basket turned on its side and attached to the side of the x-pen with carabiners. And the aspen branches are from our yard (we’re a bit overrun with them so I’m glad the bunnies love chewing on them – we’re constantly ripping out suckers).

The pen won’t be closed up ever so I don’t have to worry about it being too cluttered. it’s just for them to have a little space of their own. I’m going to have to find something prettier than old towels to cover the one side of it, though, haha.

[LongEaredLions]

Congrats on the bonding! It sounds like they are going to be very happy and spoiled together!

[Sialia]

Thanks, LongEaredLions!

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