Bonded or Not Yet Bonded???

[Twinklie]

We adopted Charlie 4 months ago, he is about 1 1/2 year-old neutered dutch mix male. He is our first bunny and is such a great friend for my kids. Then I read about the benefit to find a companion for Charlie. We tried with another neutered male, bad! The shelter volunteer told me to try with a female. The shelter just had a surprise litter from a rescued rabbit. The babies are looking for new homes or foster home, so we decided to get a girl to try with Charlie.

The weekend of July 4th, we picked up 9 weeks old Twinkle, she was just the sweetest things ever, she won our heart over in seconds, just not Charlie’s. We started with our master bath, it didn’t go very well. I guess because my son took Charlie in there a couple of times. Then we tried another more neutral place, the upstairs bathroom, I put some hays and banana in a jumbo litter box, placed the two in the litter box. Both sat and eat, Twinkle is more open, would squeeze beside Charlie and sniff him out, since we just broke her from her litter. The bonding session went on everyday, morning and afternoon, at least 1 hour, if I have time, it ran up to 4 hours. Their cages were side by side, so they could see and smell each other. After 6 days of peaceful neutral place encounter, I put both of them in the same cage. It was peaceful, no grooming each other, but at least no fight. My son was too nervous going to sleep with the two in the same cage, so I seperate them  them on the sixth night just to be careful. From the 7th day, they were together, except the morning and evening they get outside time. Charlie would still chase Twinkle when they were outside, so we placed Twinkle in a playpen. Charlie has our whole bunny-proof backyard for himself.

Yesterday marked the 11th day. We have friend’s kids over, when the kids playing outside, we let the both to run in our backyard. Charlie was great with Twinkle, just sniff her out, no chasing. On Twinkle side, no stomping. Before we went to sleep, I didn’t know why Charlie started to chase Twinkle in the cage. It wasn’t a big cage, and I stepped in to cut the chase. In the middle of night, a noise woke my husband and me. We checked, nobody was in the house, probably just the rabbits. This morning I woke up, I found Charlie was out in his old cage. I called my husband, he told me this morning Charlie forced Twinkle to be on the upper bunk. Everytime Twinkle trying to come down to eat or drink, she was chased till she hopped up the upper bunk. My husband took Charlie out because he wa such a bully. After I cleaned the cage, I removed the upper bunk (the upper bunk was added two days ago) and put the two back in the same cage again. It was peaceful like usual.  

An user warned me about the bonding may change when Twinkle starts her puberty. Twinkle will be spayed once she is ready, I am hoping things will be okay again if shhe was spayed.

Now my questions is, are they bonded yet? There isn’t any grooming each other, so I couldn’t tell. I thought the bonding process is going to some where, but after yesterday/this morning incident, I am confused again. Should I put some banana baby food on Charlie’s head?

Any suggestion/advice? Thank you!

[Sarita]

I don’t think they are bonded yet. Playing outside in the back yard is not and getting along is not really an indication of bonded because it’s neutral (don’t think you would want to do any bonding out there anyway – not safe). I would not put Twinkle in Charlies cage yet either – not safe. Charlie’s not being a bully though, he’s just defending his territory which is why you need a neutral space to bond and a neutral cage once they have cemented the bond.

At this point until she is spayed and fully recovered I would not put them together just keep bonding in a supervised neutral space for now.

[Beka27]

I agree to not proceed with bonding until after she’s spayed. Any relationship they develop now will likely be due to the presence of hormones on her part or the fact that she’s still young and not yet asserting her dominance.

[Twinklie]

Thank you for the advices. I am all confused again. The shelter lady told me to put them in the same cage together, she thinks I am doing more demage to them while caging them separately and bonding in neutral place. I really rely on her on what to do, since she has years of rabbit knowledges, and I had none. She also the founder of the rescue group, handling more rabbits than I would ever have. Actually since they are caged together, Charlie has not been aggressive, just yesterday/this morning incident. Even the bullies was mild, no harm has been done to Twinkle. They have been kept in the same cage for 5 days. I let them outside in the yard because I need to clean the cage. I can supervise while keeping an eye on the separate two. I didn’t want to take away Charlie’s outside time, since he loves his outside play. I still want to keep Charlie’s routine while he is working on the bonding, so he probably won’t feel too stressed out.

I believe they are not yet bonded, they just don’t mind being caged together. Sometimes they snuggle together, sleeping side by side, eating together, share treats, sometimes they are just on their own pace. I want to do this bonding now because right now I have the most time. I am a stay home mom, my son is off school so he can help supervising while I am setting cage up, etc etc. I am home most of the time, so they are almost always supervised, except sleeping time.

Right now they are together, laying side by side, squeezing each other. I am still comfortable with the idea of caging them together. I think I will keep trying until I am stressed out. The last bonding with the male was totally stressful for me. Not a single minute I felt comfortable putting them together except on car ride.

I have an extra cage standing by, so if things get worse, I can always separate them. Please wish luck and thanks for the advice/support, etc etc, everything. I am so glad I found a great site like this. Thank you all.

[Beka27]

Ok. Well, you can keep them together if you want, but just be so, so careful. SashaD just posted in her bonding thread that one of her rabbits needed surgery to fix an injury that happened during a bonding session. It only takes a second for a fight to break out, and if you’re not there to intercept, it can be fatal.

[Twinklie]

I have read a lot of bonding stories on the web that went sour and getting hurt. I am totally stressed about the whole thing about bonding. But if my rabbit can benefit from having a companion, I will want to try out just because it will benefit them. Just like every parent, pushingourheir kids through something that we believe that will benefit our kids in the long run. I will definately be very very careful. I don’t want any of my rabbit to get hurt.

[Beka27]

There’s no doubt that a companion is beneficial. All we’re saying is that it’s better to wait until both rabbits are spay/neutered before bonding. There is still a risk of injury at that point, but it’s a reduced risk. I’m concerned about your rescue friend if she’s encouraging people to put rabbits into pairs where not all are altered. Nowadays, it’s common knowledge that this isn’t a good idea.

[Sarita]

I agree that a companion is beneficial. However what your rescue friend is saying goes against everything I’ve ever heard or know about bonding. It’s never a good idea to just stick 2 rabbits unknown to each other in a cage together – especially the current rabbits cage – rabbits are extremely territorial. And absolutely both need to be altered.

[Twinklie]

Sarita, I am like a new parent. Everybody has some experiences to share with me about how to raise my kid. Sometimes the information conflicts, and I am not sure what to do, confused and hope that there is a guiding light to guide me through all this mess. I am doing all this believing that all the torment that I went through will benefit my rabbit. I am also doing all this base on a motherly instict and the personality that I known for my rabbit. I couldn’t tell whose advice and suggestion is the best for my rabbit, but definately digesting every single bit and trying to make the best decision for my rabbits and preventing the worst to come.

The last male-male bonding session, the shelter lady suggested me to put them in the same cage and see. It didn’t go well, so I separate them, and see how relaxed the new bunny was, I knew I did the right thing. I decied to stop fostering and turn the new bunny back, since I am not that experience to bond two male. It was a very valueable experience for a new rabbit parent.

With Twinkle, the whole bonding process was so much less stressful. I think I will go in more detail before I forgot all the details.

7/3/10
Started fostering 9 weeks old Twinkle. Took her back, settle her in new cage. Away from Charlie sight.
After dinner, took both of them in car ride. After we got home, start the bonding session in our master bath. Charlie has been there a couple of times, may be 5 or so each time. My son took Charlie there to check out/show the house.
Twinkle as a new baby, as curious as can be, she checked out the place and Charlie.
15 minutes later, Charlie started chasing Twinkle, Twinkle ran. Stopped. Then started again, this time Charlie mount Twinkle. Twinkle was submissiove, then fled. I saw a ball of fur of Twinkle by Charlie’s mouth, stopped the bonding session. Twinkle was fine, just lost a ball of fur, didn’t notice which part of her back the fur from. I think it was a very mild fur lost.

7/4/10
Another car ride to Lowe’s and Petco, let the two on the carrier, then on Petco cart.
Separately caged, now their cages were side by side. Went out for lunch.
Came home from lunch, bonding session in neutral space. Upstairs bathtub in a big jumbo litter box, with hay and banana. I was there the first two hours, both started to eat their banana. Twinkle loved to lay down beside Charlie, Charlie didn’t mind. Eating and grooming each self, did things parrallal. Charlie has no intention of trying to hurt Twinkle, a few sniffes at the butt.
The second half supervised by my husband. He left them 1 hour later, I was woke up from my nap, found that the two were unsupervised. I went to get my husband, he said he just left them 10 minutes ago. So I took over, I wasn’t as relax as my husband.
After the four hours total session, separately caged. We out to see the firework.

7/5/10
Charlie played outside for a little while while I cleaned his cage.
2 hours supervised bonding session in the morning.
2 hours supervised bonding session in the evening.
Same as usual, doing thing parrallally. No single hostility from Charlie.
Twinkle out in playpen while Charlie getting his usual outside time. Supervised. While Twinkle was out, it is always supervised, unless she in under a cage protection. But the left alone was very short period of time, while I set up cage, less than 2 minutes.

7/6/10
AM PM outside time has cut short or cancel due to rain.
1 hour semi-supervised bonding session. Me, my son (9 year-old), my daughter (3 year-old) were running up and down to check on the two. My daughter was playing upstairs outside the bathroom most of the time, she kept reporting back that they were eating and Charlie no being not nice.
I switched out cages for the two. Charlie jumped around and sniffed the cage out for 1 minute, settle down.
3 – 4 hours semi-supervised bonding session. Still going peacefully.

7/7/10
AM PM outside time has cut short or cancel due to rain.
Skipped the morning bonding due to activity.
4 hours semi-supervised PM bonding session. Peaceful as usual.
Charlie is still using Twinkle’s cage, Twinkle in Charlie’s. Switched back to their own cage at night.

7/8/10
AM PM outside time has cut short or cancel due to rain.
2 hour semi-supervised AM bonding session. Peaceful as usual.
4 hours semi-supervised PM bonding session. Peaceful as usual.
A cage was on top of Twinkle when they were outside while I get their cage clean.
Back to their own original cage.

7/9/10
5 hour semi-supervised bonding session. Peaceful as usual.
Doctor appointment for Charlie due to eye area problem. 30 minutes car ride, 1 hour sharing carrier at doctor. Then went through some torture with check up and flushing eye session. 30 minutes car ride home.
First time caged together in Twinkle’s cage, went well.
Separately caged them since we were going to sleep.

7/10/10
AM outside time for Charlie, Twinkle in playpen. Charlie tries to chew the playpen on and off. Twinkle escaped from the playpen, Charlie tried to chase Twinkle a bit, but ears not down. Back to the playpen.
Back to cage together.
PM outside time for Charlie, Twinkle in playpen. Charlie still tries to chew the playpen on and off.
Tried to bond in the master bath. Charlie has not yet showing any hostile, just trying to sniff Twinkle’s bottom, then Twinkle took off. Twinkle kept running around, playing and sniffing the place out. Charlie crawled around a bit, then decided to chill off.

7/11/10
AM outside time for Charlie, Twinkle in playpen. Charlie went to the sniff the playpen, no chewing.
Caged together.
PM outside time for Charlie, Twinkle in playpen. Charlie went to the sniff the playpen, no chewing.
Playtime in master bath. Charlie has no hostile intention to Twinkle.

7/12/10
AM outside time. Charlie went in to explore the playpen, Twinkle out with the cage over him.
Caged together. Upper bunk added, both had fun hopping up.
PM outside play, both playing by itself, Charlie didn’t chase Twinkle.

7/13/10
AM outside time, Twinkle inside the cage.
Caged together.
PM, outside time, both running loose, but Charlie didn’t chase Twinkle.
Caged togehter, before bed time, Charlie chased Twinkle inside the cage. I stepped in to stop the chase. I noticed it was just chasing, Charlie didn’t intent to hurt Twinkle, if Charlie intended to, I think Twinkle will get hurt.
Woken in the middle of noise, guessed the two were bumping the litter boxes.

7/14/10
Woke up found the two caged seperately, my husband said Charlie was bullying Twinkle. He wouldn’t let Twinkle down to drink or eat, chased her back to the upper bunk.
Outside time, cage over Twinkle. Upper bunk removed.
Both inside peacefully, back to normal.

I really think that two has not yet bonded, but doesn’t mind to be caged together. Sometimes see them snuggling together in the cage and in the master bath, they are just like those bonded pairs. They just haven’t groomed each other and always go everywhere like twins.

Another things to be concern, Twinkle will be going through puberty and waiting to be spayed. Charlie is neutered about 5 months, he shouldn’t be a bother to Twinkle.

I am all so confused again, for all the negative side I have read about bonding that went sour. The other side of me telling me not to give up, since up till this point, everything seems to go well. Should I stop what have progress just to prevent something that may not happen in the future? Please help! Thank you.

 

[Beka27]

It’s up to you what you want to do and if you want to proceed before she is spayed. It’s kind of a 50/50 thing. Half the people have good experiences doing this, half the people don’t. I hope nothing bad happens and they can remain together peacefully. Do you have a second cage, just in case they do need to be separated?

[Twinklie]

 

 

Aren’t they cute? I really feel bad to give up the bond at this point. I hope that I am right.

Yes, I do have a second cage! If I give up now, it will be letting the 50% of the good to go. If they are not bonded, I will not want to keep Twinkle, she deserves someone to spend more time with.

[Monkeybun]

In my opinion, its just too risky. I’d leave them separated until after Twinkle is healed up from her spay, and all hormones gone. Alot of females can get very cage aggressive when going through puberty, I’d rather not see Charlie hurt. And bonds often break when the baby hits puberty anyway. It may be goign well NOW, but it could drastically change. And Charlie getting aggressive with her in his cage is enough for me.

Prevention is better than risking the vet bills and injured bunnies.

[Twinklie]

Is it really that bad? Let me think about it and discuss with the shelter.

[Beka27]

They are very cute together. We’re not recommending you give up on bonding them, just that you postpone it for a little while. If you want to keep them together, you can, but just be prepared to act quickly if you see any signs of aggression at all.

[Twinklie]

The reason I am doing it right now, it is because I have the time and the courage now. If postpone it, it will be sometime in Oct/Nov, which I may not have time and may not have the courage to do the bonding. I need to do this bonding at my good times, or else, I wouldn’t go through the bonding process, it is too stressful.

Up to this point, there really isn’t any aggression. Just the incident earlier today. I wouldn’t call it aggression, because Charlie didn’t hurt Twinkle at all.

[Twinklie]

 

Guess what? I just came up with the most brilliant plan, at least I thought so. I will still keep the bonding going, there isn’t any sign that it is going sour yet. When Twinkle is in her puberty, we will see how bad it will get. If it goes really bad, causing me any uncomfortable leaving them together unsupervise, they will be separated when there is no one around. In this case, nobody will get hurt while there is some bonding going on.

 

They are just so cute together.

[Beka27]

That sounds like a plan. It could be problematic if they break out into a fight when you’re not home or at night, but at least this is a risk you’re aware of and willing to take. I assume you have a rabbit vet who neutered Charlie. Has Twinkle been there for her first check-up yet?

[Twinklie]

I don’t think Twinkle has her first visit yet. We are fostering at the moment, will ask the shelter about her doctor appointment schedule.

[Beka27]

I thought you adopted her. If you’re only fostering her, they shouldn’t be allowed to be together at all. It can be devastating for two rabbits to develop a bond and then be removed from each other permanently when the foster gets adopted by another family.

[Twinklie]

If the bond is going good, I will adopt Twinkle. I just don’t want to keep a pair that don’t bond, that’s why I started to do the fostering and wanted to get the bonding to go good.

[Beka27]

Oh, okay! You made it sound like it’s just temporary. Even if they have to be separated before her spay, I bet they’ll bond again after… Is the rescue paying for the spay?

[Twinklie]

I am assuming the rescue is paying for the spaying fee, since I need to pay for the $90 adoption fee. And they have the policy all the adopted out rabbits have to be neutered/spayed. Right now they are just like most of the pairs, just no grooming each other (I thought I saw Twinkle groomed Charlie, hope thatI didn’t see it wrong). Half of the time they are laying side by side, half of the time they are doing their own things. Now I am preparing the worst, separate them if necessary.

[Author]

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