Bonded but not bonded?

[Shayne]

So background to the story. I had a trio of bunnies (Eevee, Ollie and Beanie). They were fine for a long time however Eevee and Ollie started pairing up and leaving Beanie out or picking on her. So my partner decided to get another boy bunny for Beanie and have a quartet, his name is Bluebell.

We started trying to bond them around 4 weeks after Bluebell was desexed (all of them are fixed). He got along pretty fast with the two girls but Ollie did not like him. We tried multiple areas and multiple methods such as in the bathtub, laundry, backyard. We put them in a box together and rattled it around. We took them on car rides. We even took them to a whole new house. The two boys did not get along. It was mainly Ollie’s doing. Bluebell would rarely fight back but Ollie would continue to nip and chase him. During all this, Eevee and Bluebell just randomly had a big fight one night and could not be put together again. 

We took them to a lady to bond them for us and she was able to work out Ollie’s and Bluebell’s issues but had trouble with Eevee. In the end she returned them to us saying that she could not bond them. 

We brought them home and they seemed perfectly alright for the first few hours. They were all grooming each other and eating together. However, when Bluebell wasn’t looking, Ollie would nip at him. It started out gentle nips but has got a lot rougher. Now he continues to chase him when Bluebell comes too close. Eevee also has started lunging and chasing now that Ollie is doing it too. 

However, they still all sleep beside one another, groom each other and eat together! There is no major fighting just lots of nipping and chasing and I have no idea what to do to diminish it. I don’t want to separate them as they have come so far. Before going to the bonding specialist they would literally try and kill one another. Now they tolerate each other to a point. I just don’t know how to get them to be more friendly.

Right now I have them in a large pen. The smaller the pen, the more they run into each other and bully Bluebell. However, the big pens means they sit away from each other and ignore each other. Also I have just litter trays, a water dish and some cardboard in their pen as I was told not to give them anything they can claim. However, would more hiding places be better? 

Any tips on how to get them to be nicer to Bluebell would be greatly appreciated!

P.S. please don’t suggest not doing a quartet, I really do not want to have 2 pairs or a trio and a single. I know if it doesn’t work out I will have to most likely separate them but for now I am still holding out hope! 

[Shayne]

I also forgot to say above. But would a time out thing kind of work? If they chase/bite Bluebell should I remove them and put them in a bathtub or box for 10-15 minutes to calm down and then put them back? Or do you think they won’t associate the two together and just keep being aggressive?

[Sirius&Luna]

I don’t really understand why you left them together if the bonding person told you they couldn’t be bonded? In my opinion it’s not safe to leave a group together that lunges, chases and bullies one member. The longer you leave them together, the longer Bluebell is going to have to build up a hatred of the bunnies that bully him, making a bond in the long term less likely. Rabbits really hold grudges, and even if you get the other bunnies to ‘be nicer’ to Bluebell, he’s still going to remember that he’s scared of them.

I’m in the process of bonding a trio, and they eat together, snuggle together and groom each other, but I wouldn’t call them bonded, and I wouldn’t leave them together unattended, because they still get nippy with each other at times, and I don’t want to risk anyone getting injured.

You say you don’t want people to suggest ‘not doing a quartet’ but at the moment it is not safe to leave them together, and you need to separate them, at least when you are not actively bonding them.

[Shayne]

I kept them together because the bonding person didn’t even really give them a chance. They were only together with her for 5 days and I know bonding can take weeks to months. Also all the reasons she said why she couldn’t bond them I do not see. She was stating that Bluebell was being aggressive and was the problem whereas Bluebell has showed no sign of being aggressive at all since coming home.

Also, I do not leave them unattended. Their cage is set up right beside me and my partners bed so I can always keep an eye on them. When we are not home, we place a bar in the middle of the pen so that they are still together but cannot fight. I also don’t care for Bluebell being injured and I am keeping a sharp eye on them. Any chasing or biting is stopped.

The reason I am not inclined to separate them is because I fear if I do that they will revert back to trying to kill one another. But yes if I feel like Bluebell is becoming afraid of them I will remove him straight away.

[Shayne]

[Deleted User]

They could honestly revert back to wanting to kill each other even if you don’t separate them. It’s a risk in general, which is why they probably should be kept separate. I agree with S&L, if Bluebell is getting bullied, he’s going to eventually hold a grudge and it will be incredibly difficult to bond them. It might honestly be a good idea to go back to basics because it seems like the dynamic was already shaky when Bluebell came into the mix, and adding a 4th bun can cause problems with the original bunnies. Going back to basics and doing short sessions and lots of prebonding could help them overcome their issues, and you could even start with one on one sessions to see who seems most comfortable together and which ones need to work on their issues. There’s too many personalities and issues that can happen when trying to keep an unsteady, not bonded quartet together.

[Sirius&Luna]

It’s good that you’re separating them when you’re not there.

How long have you been trying to bond them now?

Honestly, it sounds like they need a break. It sounds like you’ve tried all the usual methods, sent them to a stranger in entirely neutral space, and still not made progress. It sounds like they get on okay in a big pen where they can ignore each other, which isn’t really a bond.

It’s also very unlikely that they would revert to being more aggressive while separated – it’s much more likely that they would get calmer with time apart. In many cases, bunnies that live in proximity to each other turn out to be very easy bonds, as they’re used to seeing and smelling each other, and have no fear of each other. You could swap them between areas so they still remember everyone’s scents, but it will give them a bit of space, and time to get used to each other without there constantly being aggression.

[Shayne]

Okay, well I have them separated now but kept them beside each other. Another reason I mainly kept them together though when coming home is because thats how the bonding lady did it. She basically just chucked them all in a pen and left them together. They also don’t respond to the basic bonding techniques. Like when they are in a bath tub they are perfectly fine. No humping, biting, chasing etc. But the minute you put them in a space they are comfortable, they just act the same as before hand. So when I brought them home, I thought it was better to try and use the ladies technique.

I’ve been trying to bond for roughly 3 weeks. I made progress very fast with the two girls, especially Beanie. But then Eevee turned on him. I didn’t make any progress between Ollie and him however on my own.

Other than bathtub, car rides and the main bonding techniques. Are there any other ones that may be good to use?

[sarahthegemini]

If they’re okay when in the bath, I would continue with that for a while. Maybe pet them and give a few treats. You want them to build up trust and associate each other with something positive (petting and treats) You don’t want to move to the next stage too soon. Three weeks really isn’t very long at all.

[Sirius&Luna]

Oh right, from your comments and the previous thread, I thought this had been going on for 9 months.

If it’s only been three weeks, I agree, keep bonding them in the bathtub. If there’s anywhere that it works, keep going with that.

Also to add – I sent my bunnies to a bonder and she didn’t manage to bond them, but I did it myself. I don’t personally have a HUGE amount of faith in bonders or their methods. 

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