House Rabbit Community and Store
-
Sign In
-
Forum
-
Store
- This Forum and Store have separate secure Sign Ins
-
OUR FORUM IS UP BUT WE ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF UPDATING AND FIXING THINGS. SOME THINGS WILL LOOK WEIRD AND/OR NOT BE CORRECT. YOUR PATIENCE IS APPRECIATED. We are not fully ready to answer questions in a timely manner as we are not officially open, but we will do our best.
You may have received a 2-factor authentication (2FA) email from us on 4/21/2020. That was from us, but was premature as the login was not working at that time.
BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately! Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES
The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.
What are we about? Please read about our Forum Culture and check out the Rules.
The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.
- This topic has 83sd replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
-
Bertha went on a first date with a very handsome young satin buck yesterday….
At first they mostly ignored each other. She laid down (it was hot out, and she was not stoked about being woken up from her afternoon nap and the car ride to the shelter), he mounted her for what seemed like a long time, maybe 15 -20 seconds? Once he stopped I thought she would turn on him, but she didn’t. Then for the next few minutes he would mount, she would leave, we would stop him from chasing, etc. I had a feeling she may have been too hot to care….
Nothing aggressive, just him being very interested in her.
He is physically kind of the opposite of what I was thinking would be ideal: he’s young (about 8 months), while she’s about 7 yrs, and he’s large (about 7 lbs, she’s also big, so I was thinking smaller would be better to bring down the average bunny size).
But…. he is VERY handsome
and seemed sweet and gentle overall. And Bertha seemed to like him… So… we are going to try a second date when it isn’t so hot out. I put in an adoption application on him. There is one other app on him, but they were trying to bond him with another bun, but she tried to bite him, so they were thinking it prob wouldn’t be the best pairing.
Maybe this handsome young fella is finally the one for Bertha?
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Second date went well! Similar to the first, more mounting by the handsome suitor, Bertha continuing to allow it. When she would run away, we stopped him from following. Neither ever showed aggression, even in nose to nose meet-ups.
So, I brought him home to foster for some pre-bonding.
Plan is to let him settle in for a week-ish, then start cage-swaps for another week-ish, and then we’ll start bonding for real. I think the pre-bonding should help with the crazy mounting, as it did with the last bunny we tried to bond with Bertha.
Here he is, getting used to his new surroudings:
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
4th date (since starting pre-bonding).
about 1 hour, in an exercise pen at the shelter.
We made some progress! Started off a bit tense and hectic. Bertha took up her usual spot under a laundry basket. There were other bunnies in different pens on either side, who were very interested in what was going on. One of them had actually dated Moose, and attacked him on their date, and apparently remembered him, as she was trying to attack him through the fence (it was very small mesh though).
For a while it was similar as previous dates, but higher energy. Moose would run up, and then Bertha would lunge at him. Then at one point, Bertha was out moving around, and Moose got on top of the basket, and practically jumped on top of her. He chased and got a tiny tuft of fur, but the chaperone stopped the chase. I started wondering if maybe the “peanut gallery” of the other bunnies was making him a bit more aggressive.
I suggested removing the laundry basket, since it seemed to be creating a pattern that we weren’t thrilled with.
After that, Moose would still come running up to Bertha, both would put their heads down, and then the chaperone would start petting them both. This repeated a few times. After a couple rounds of this, Bertha actually groomed Moose a tiny bit! Just a few licks, but still great!
Then a bit later, the came nose to nose again, and after a bit of petting from the chaperone, they put their faces more side by side in a kind of snuggly way. We ended it then, definitely a good note.
Despite the bits of aggression earlier on, the chaperone thinks we def made some progress, and I agree!
Next date is tomorrow, I’m excited to see how it goes! Hopefully we can get some snuggling without the chaperone. I think removing the basket was a good move.
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
5th date – at the shelter, different exercise pen, about 1 hour.
Today definitely felt different! They seemed much more relaxed. Moose was not running around everywhere. Bertha explored more, and spent a lot of time lounging.
This time we started out with all of the hide-y boxes removed. The “peanut” gallery of bunnies was also much more mellow, and were all “strangers”.
Today definitely felt different! They seemed much more relaxed. Moose was not running around everywhere. Berthe explored more, and spent a lot of time lounging.
We still kept up the petting when they asked for grooms and it seemed like they were going to box or lunge. Then they would settled down and spent a good amount of time laying near each other with only occasional petting from me.
A few “shows of dominance” by Bertha. Moose didn’t try to mount her or chase her today (except for one time where they disagreed over who would groom, but we stopped that quickly). It was pretty much all Bertha coming up to Moose to ask for grooms. It seems like he may be coming to terms with his role in the relationship.
At one point he put his head down for grooms and she bopped him on the head with both paws and ran, which was pretty funny (he didn’t chase).
I know some people disagree with intervening this much, but it seems to be working so far, and the bonder at the shelter has tons of experience. I at least like that it doesn’t feel like I am torturing the rabbits.
At any rate, it seems we have taken a step forward. The bonder at the shelter thinks I can try bonding them in my bathroom again. I might try my office first, and go for a longer session with less intervention on my part, before going for the bathroom, which is smaller and less neutral.
But then again, the bathroom is so much less work.
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Wasn’t able to do any sessions from Friday – Monday, as I was out of town and a pet sitter was looking after everybody.
But picked back up yesterday:
6th date yesterday, 1 hour, at shelter in large exercise pen.
Started off a little tense and high energy, probably because they hadn’t dated in a few days, and didn’t get as much exercise as normal over the weekend. Settled down after a while, and was similar to the last date. No one is willing to groom the other when they come nose to nose. Seems like they are in the “stubborn” phase.
Shelter bonder and I agreed that they need to do some longer sessions, with less human interference. My goal is to try to work with them daily now, for as long as possible in each session, now that we know they seem to get better over the course of the date.
7th date, 2 hours, this morning, in my bathroom.
Started off tense at first, with a bit of boxing and dominance squabbles (some fur pulling by both when neither would groom). Moose seemed like he wanted to mount, Bertha was having none of it. Figured this was normal in a new space. To settle them down, I put them side by side (so facing the same direction), smooshed them together, and petted them until they relaxed a bit. This was all in the first ten minutes.
The rest of the date was uneventful, which felt like progress. A few times when they would come nose to nose, and it looked like they were about to lunge or box, I banged on the floor and they would back off. For the last 1.5 hours, Bertha flopped a few times, Moose laid down, both groomed themselves a lot (photo below). I didn’t need to intervene at all when they came nose to nose.
Plan is to do another bathroom session either tonight and/or tomorrow. On Friday they will go on a longer date at the shelter, and then I’m thinking I can try a marathon session this weekend. I’m glad that the bathroom worked out well today, as it makes it much easier for me to date them daily!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
8th session (Wednesday night) – 1.5 hours, my bathroom
This was the second session of the day, and it went pretty well! Both bunnies flopped a few times, and are tending to lay closer to one another. They eat near each other, but they still haven’t sorted out who will be dominant. Bertha is giving every chance for Moose to groom, but he isn’t doing it yet. He’s doing the same to her. Silly buns!
Bertha will grunt at Moose when he refuses to groom her and bat him away with her front paws. One instance of chasing by Moose that I interrupted, but ended with them calm and laying down again.
I wonder how long this phase will be….
9th session (Thursday morning) – 1 hour
Similar to last night. They spent a good amount of time laying pretty close to one another (maybe about a foot apart), but still no grooming! Still not sure who will be dominant….
I was worried they were getting bored, so I tried scattering pellets around, which seemed to be a good thing.
10th session (Thursday night) – about 2 hours
Tried scattering hay around, but that seemed to make Moose more inclined to run up to Bertha, which she DID NOT like, so I removed the hay and smooshed them together for a bit, and they seemed to calm down again, but pretty high energy tonight. Moose seems more bold and wants to chase Bertha more. Hmmmm. We’ll see if they calm down by the end of the session. I was thinking they needed longer sessions at this point, but maybe I’m pushing them too hard? They seem relaxed enough: grooming themselves, flopping, eating, etc.
About 1 hour in, a small chase/ dominance dispute. Then, about 15 minutes later, this:
.JPG)
These two! Jeeez.
The bonder at the shelter says bunnies are like middle school kids at a dance… they want to be together but are too shy and awkward. I have to agree at this point.
The rest of the date was uneventful. No scuffles that I needed to break up.
Tomorrow they will have a long session back at the shelter, hopefully it goes well!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
The 12th date lasted about 6.5 hours, and went pretty well.
I think the scuffle that they had in the last session definitely had an effect on them. Moose we a bit skittish around Bertha, and she was very assertive and bossy. Moose barely approached her, and only thumped a few times. I wish I had seen what happened in their last date when they had their scuffle.
If he got to close she would charge at him or lunge at him. He always ran away. Early in the date, she lunged at him and got a mouthful of his fur. She also chased him once at the beginning of the date, and once a few hours in, but kind of half heartedly, and I think maybe with the round pen, she couldn’t tell if he was starting to chase her. I squirted her with water after a few seconds and she stopped.
After about an hour (where there were lots of dominance assertions by Bertha), but I didn’t have to intervene, they both laid down.
After about 2 hours I added in a palm frond for them to chew on, and then later I added some hay. The both ate hay.
A lot of the date was spent like this:
At one point Bertha completely fell asleep (like, the twitchy sleep). When they would go through an active phase I would give them a bit of cilantro.
Later in the date, they laid a bit closer together.
Bertha would alternate between sleeping, and dominance behaviors, mostly lunging when Moose got too close, or sometimes kicking him out of his “spot”.
Ended it with them relatively chill, but they were getting a bit restless and hungry (as was I), so we went home and they went into their separate pens.
I will see how they are in the morning, I might do the same thing with them tomorrow if they seem up for it. They both seem very tired, but otherwise fine. I was considering trying to marathon them, but I’m going out of town next weekend, so I realized I shouldn’t rush it.
I’m hoping that they are finally sorting out that Bertha will be top bun, but today even if he had wanted to groom her, she wouldn’t have given him a chance, as she would scare him off when he got close! But then again, she probably understands bunny body language better than I do!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
It looks to be going well! It can seem tedious and one date look like the last with no noticeable progress, but the trust level is likely growing. You can already see that with the way their little interactions when too close, don’t escalate into anything. So, I vote for more of the same of what you are doing. Is there a space at home you can set up a “neutral pen” with the tarp and blanket?
As to you’re question about separating after they’ve been together for really long session, I personally don’t think that’s a problem. Sometimes it’s just not practical for the owner to keep them together longer at that point. I’ve had rabbits together all day but then separated at night as I hadn’t quite trusted them together for that period and bascially, I wanted decent sleep without worrying about it.
I think what is important is that not too much time passes between the bonding sessions. So if you’d had them together 8-12 hours then separated again, try do another session the next day – however long you can manage. Even if it’s a short one, they are still navigating through that first stage when they get put in the same space, so that is beneficial in itself, IMO. You may notice that stage becomes less dramatic or the just acknowledge each other then choose their separate sides straight away and settle in for the session. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. Calm buns is good.
What’s happening with them when you have to go out of town? Are they to be boarded somewhere?
-
13th date- about 2.5 hours
Well, I didn’t end up taking them to my office today, but I opted to try a little stressing instead, because I had a lot of housework to do, and I figured it was worth trying.
I put them in a fairly large cardboard box, probably about 4′ x 2′, and tall enough that they couldn’t see over the top. It came with lots of crinkly brown butcher paper packaging in it, so I just left it in. I positioned it in the hall way, so they wouldn’t really be able to see anything too familiar.
Put the buns in, and started vacuuming, and also moving the box around a bit. A bit of nipping and lunging from Bertha, as usual. At the very beginning Bertha did seem to snuggle into Moose, but only for a few seconds. Then she nipped him on the bum. After a few minutes, I didn’t need to shake the box around. After a while they started chewing on the paper and digging around in it.
I probably vacuumed for 30 minutes. After that, I would only turn on the vacuum when I felt like Bertha might start chasing. I felt bad at one point, as I was folding clothes just a few feet from them (but really only listening, as most of the time I could hear them either being silent, or chewing on the paper), and I heard a squeak, which I assume was Moose getting nipped too hard. Or maybe he was scared? It really is the worst sound.
It didn’t escalate into anything (and she didn’t even have a mouthful of his fur), and she laid down soon after. Man, she sure is picking on Moose! A few occasional lunges for the next 30 minutes. I was very close to them but they couldn’t see me. I mostly just listened for movement and would peek in if I heard some shuffling around. I would occasionally turn on the vacuum or wiggle the box if it seemed like they were getting antsy.
After an hour they were both calm, and either chewed on the paper, or laid down. I didn’t need to stress them at all.
Ended the date 2.5 hours in with them both laid out flat. I had originally planned to start in the box, then move them to my office, but I had plans and my errands took longer than expected today. Not too bad I guess.
I did check Moose over after the date and didn’t find any evidence of the hard nip that made him squeak. I know he lived with his siblings until he was taken to the shelter, so maybe he is used to having to say “STOP IT” to bossy sisters?
Since tomorrow is a holiday I will probably take them to my office again. My co-workers think it’s great, and all tell me know much they are learning about bunny bonding.
I’m also hanging on to the box. It seemed to work out pretty well, and it’s easy to monitor them while I work on other things at home. And they seemed to like digging around in the paper!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
14th date –
Decided to combine some strategies! Started out in the box with vacuuming (my apartment is so clean!), for about 30 minutes. Only needed to vacuum a bit at first.
Then I decided to see how they did in the carrier in the car, so they could have a stress session the way to my office for a session there. They did great in the carrier! They both hate my truck, as it is really loud and bouncy, so they just kinda settled in next to each other.
Drove around for prob about 30 minutes total, then brought them to my office and put them in the same set up as before.
Pretty calm at first! Seemed relieved to not be in the car or a box anymore, haha. Both eating hay with gusto.
Some nipping and lunging by Bertha, but not too bad. I tried putting banana on Bertha’s head, but it made Moose too crazy (he is NUTS for food), and then Bertha got all flustered and just shook it off.
Then… about 1.5 hours into the office session… this happened!
My heart! Yay!!!!
Then Bertha stretched out for him to groom her, he didn’t, she nipped him and they moved around, but then went straight back to this:
Oh man, this was a big step! Seems like stressing them a bit helped! Whew!
Hopefully we’ll get some grooming action soon!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Well, I haven’t updated recently, because things have been mostly uneventful.
Dates 15-18 were in my bathroom, and ranged from 1-2 hours each. Similar pattern of behavior. Some flopping near each other. Some lunging by Bertha, nothing aggressive by Moose. I used the vacuum a bit if they were getting tense.
I went out of town this past weekend, so I didn’t date them Sat or Sunday. Today they are back in the bathroom, will try for a longer session as I can work from home.
For the shorter bathroom dates they seemed to get bored, so today I added some hay to keep them occupied.
I have to go out of town again this weekend, so I’m planning to continue these bathroom sessions this week, and then next week, once I know I will be home for at least 2 weeks, I will try to marathon them.
Here’s a photo of the set-up:
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Posted By Vienna Blue in France on 6/12/2017 3:31 PM
Dana. I’ve just seen this thread, how have i missed it…? anyhoo. Its too late to read it all now, but they look luuuurverly together…..
Ill try to read it asap and give any (if any) input i may have.Ps. Just wanted to know how looong have you not been able to go for a wee !!???? LOL !!!!!
Hahahaha thanks Vienna! I do think they will make a great couple…. hopefully they eventually realize that too!
Yeah…. we’ve had to just make the pen a bit smaller and push the fence a bit to the side to use the toilet! The things we do for bunnies….
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
About 36 hrs in to the marathon:
Bertha groomed Moose last night (about 24 hrs in)! Very brief, but a proper grooming, where she got between his ears and up one of them. It was so cute, because he was sitting in the corner (they had been laying near each other), she got up to groom herself, he kept very very still with his head down (but not directly asking to be groomed), and then she gave him some licks! And then proceeded to nip him. It was like she realized, “wait, what am I doing”, lol. With her past mate, Bunston, she would only groom him when he wasn’t asking directly, it looked a lot like that.
Still, yay!
No scuffles over night. I slept on the ground near them again, and they never woke me up, so I think they slept most of the night too.
They have been laying closer together too (sorry if it’s hard to see Moose, he kind of blends in with the dark blanket):
And last night I caught of glimpse of them almost snuggling, where Bertha went over to Moose and laid down right next to him:
Still not sharing the litter box, and I want to see more snuggles before we change anything. But yaaaaaay for some positive behaviors! I think there is still some fur pulling and bossy behavior from Bertha, but a lot less.
*Edit: Caught Bertha grooming Moose again this morning! Yay!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Thanks guys! Bertha has groomed Moose a few more times since my post this morning, so I’m really excited! And really surprised! She still seems to be the dominant one, so maybe they are going to have one of those shared-dominance type relationships? Who knows. Maybe they realized they better become friends if they ever want to leave the bathroom
Thankfully my husband has been working from home, so we can tag-team supervising. We are in a studio apartment, so no matter where we are in the apartment, we are close enough to the bathroom to hear what’s going on with them.
I might try the banana again, but Moose is such a little piggie, it doesn’t really matter if he’s just eaten, he always acts starving! Plus when he approaches Bertha too quickly she gets defensive and thinks he’s trying to mount her.
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Posted By DanaNM on 6/13/2017 5:06 PM
Thanks guys! Bertha has groomed Moose a few more times since my post this morning, so I’m really excited! And really surprised! She still seems to be the dominant one, so maybe they are going to have one of those shared-dominance type relationships? Who knows. Maybe they realized they better become friends if they ever want to leave the bathroom
Thankfully my husband has been working from home, so we can tag-team supervising. We are in a studio apartment, so no matter where we are in the apartment, we are close enough to the bathroom to hear what’s going on with them.
I might try the banana again, but Moose is such a little piggie, it doesn’t really matter if he’s just eaten, he always acts starving! Plus when he approaches Bertha too quickly she gets defensive and thinks he’s trying to mount her.
My Buttercup is top bunny in my pair but she does the majority of the grooming – Peanut can be greedy
Good job you’ve got someone to help you – me and my bf took it turns supervising the buns or sleeping. For. Two. Whole. Weeks 
-
That’s good to know! Bertha has always been the greedy one, that’s what I’ve been so surprised that she’s been grooming!
Yeah… I have two weeks blocked off for this.. but hoping it doesn’t take that long! I’m thinking once they have moved to their semi-neutral spot (our kitchen) I will be able to sleep in bed, as we will be able to hear them very easily if they start scuffling since it’s all one big room
.. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Posted By Vienna Blue in France on 6/13/2017 1:43 PM
Yay ! Could it be worth trying a bit of banana splodge again on both their heads…..?
I would do it after they’ve eaten, so the “I’m HUNGRYYY!!” excitement has died down. Worth trying d’ya reckon?Ok, so Moose was all amped up and hoovering pellets off the floor, but Bertha thought he was trying some funny business, as he was shoving his head underneath her, so they were getting all flustered! They had already had their veggies and pellets, so I decided to try the banana on the head, since they ended up nose to nose asking for grooms. Smooshed some on both, Bertha groomed Moose’s right off, but then he started looking at me for the banana! The Bertha shook her’s off, but I put it back on, and basically petted her to make her hold her head down, right under Moose’s nose. Then he started licking it off! He did a good job cleaning her up, and she got all sleepy looking. Yay!
Then Moose went and flopped, Bertha looked sleepy and groomed herself. A few minutes later this happened:
That’s the most snuggly I’ve seen them!
Yay!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
About 48 hours in, I don’t have too much time for an update, but early this morning I tip-toed in to the bathroom to use the toilet, and caught Moose grooming Bertha! No banana this time!
Yippeee!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Well, today was a weird day! We are approaching 3 days straight, except there were some short interruptions in the marathon today.
I had to be at work from 10 am onward. My husband works from home, and he has had no problem supervising them.
But, this afternoon, one of his friends from out of town surprised him with a visit. This evening (around 7 pm), he told me via text that they had decided to walk down to the beach early in the afternoon, so he took Bertha out of the bonding area and put her in a separate x pen for about 45 min, then put her back in the bonding pen when he got back…. Doh!
He said they went straight back to cuddling…. so I guess that’s good? I felt like we dodged a bullet, but I know he was just trying to make sure no one got hurt if left unsupervised.
Then, about 15 min later (I was still at work), he asked if I could come home, so he could go to dinner with the same friend, I said “sure, what time?”. Then he suddenly asked if he should put Bertha back in the separate pen or in her condo. I didn’t see the text immediately, but I said I can come straight home, and it’s prob better to leave them together. But, he didn’t see that text in time, so he put her in her condo. ACK.
My husband apologized profusely, I guess his friend had shown up in an Uber for dinner without much warning…. and he didn’t think about the fact that Moose might try to claim the bonding area as his. Also I have been sleeping on the floor for the past three nights to make sure the marathon isn’t interrupted, and then all of the sudden this friend (who I don’t really like to begin with
) messes it all up??!
So, I rushed home, of course, swooped up big B, and put her back in the bonding area. She had been separated for about another 45 minutes. Buns didn’t seem to think much of it. Kind of an “oh, hi again” reaction.
Been watching them pretty carefully since I’ve been home. They didn’t seem as cuddly as last night, and I didn’t see any grooming (but then again, I was watching them like a hawk just to make sure everything was still cool). It was also dinner time, when they start to get active and antsy, so I fed them dinner, and then did the banana on the head again on both of them just to reestablish the good feelings and grooming, and I figured it wouldn’t hurt. Seems like it helped, as I saw Bertha groom Moose again a little while later, and now they are laying near each other again.
JEEEEEZ. My husband nearly gave me a heart attack. He has been helping a ton, but he hasn’t been the one sleeping on the floor!
I was planning on sleeping in bed tonight… but now I’m worried again since we had the interruption.
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Posted By Vienna Blue in France on 6/15/2017 11:37 AM
Don’t be worried about the bunnies, but don’t sleep in your own bed, just to punish your husband !!!!! ha ha ha
LOL!
Too late! I slept in the bed! And no issues with the buns overnight. I just made hubby promise that when we have kids he won’t just lock them in separate rooms when he’s supposed to be baby sitting when a college buddy shows up. ha! (His response, “Well if it was kids I would have just taken them with me!”. Ohhhh man.) 
Anyway, back to the buns. They are doing great! Grooming by both parties, no fur pulling or chasing for the last 2.5 days, and more often than not, when I peak in at them, they are either cuddling or laying very near each other. I would really like to seem the in the litter box at the same time. I noticed this morning Bertha didn’t push Moose out when she jumped in, but he left on his own (probably remembering her chasing him out before), so I’m thinking they start to use it at the same time soon. It is HUGE, so there is plenty of space for both of them.
I am thinking I might move them to semi-neutral today. Do you guys think they are ready? Or need more time to cement the grooming? Bertha first groomed Moose on Monday night (that I witnessed), and Moose groomed Bertha the first time (that I saw) about 24 hours ago.
Overall they seem very relaxed and happy around each other, I just want to make sure I don’t rush them!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Decided to go for the move to semi-neutral space (which means I get my bathroom back, yay!) a few hours ago.
I wiped down the whole kitchen with vinegar, then we popped them into the carrier together, and hubby took them for a stroll outside while I moved things to the kitchen.
Everything seems to be going just fine! A bit of grooming, a bit of snuggling. Basically acting the same as in the bathroom! Even a bit of litter box sharing (yay!).
If everything keeps going this way I am planning to remodel the NIC condo this weekend, clean the carpets as well as possible, and hopefully move them into the condo on Sunday!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
My bonded pair are quite snuggly but even they have a few hours a day apart! Throughout the day whilst they are sleeping, they’ll spend some time together and equally, they’ll lay apart. It’s mainly Buttercup’s choice – She needs her own space sometimes
For litter box sharing I really don’t think it’s essential. I mean, would you use the loo the same time as your partner?
Mine share but by that I mean one will be in the litter box eating and the other will lean in from the outside and eat They occasionally jump in the tray at the same time but not so much nowadays. I think they realized how unpractical it was lol plus there’s always two boxes! -
Posted By sarahthegemini on 6/17/2017 9:27 AM
My bonded pair are quite snuggly but even they have a few hours a day apart! Throughout the day whilst they are sleeping, they’ll spend some time together and equally, they’ll lay apart. It’s mainly Buttercup’s choice – She needs her own space sometimesFor litter box sharing I really don’t think it’s essential. I mean, would you use the loo the same time as your partner?
Mine share but by that I mean one will be in the litter box eating and the other will lean in from the outside and eat They occasionally jump in the tray at the same time but not so much nowadays. I think they realized how unpractical it was lol plus there’s always two boxes! Hahaha true! I’m mostly just thinking of Bertha’s past super solid bond, and the litter box I got is HUGE, so Bertha likes to lay in it. Last night they did snuggle and groom a bit without the banana trick, and did hang out in the litter box together for a few minutes (without Bertha chasing him out), so I think they should get closer with more time in the semi-neutral space.
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Sounds an exact replay of Zou and Henry.
Come on Bertha, give in and give him the impression he is top bun. (We women all know its only an impression, and we know who really ‘wears the trousers/pants in the house’. Sssshh)
Once she gives in completely, you’ll be home and dry…. but only Bertha is the judge of when that will be
-
Posted By Vienna Blue in France on 6/18/2017 2:01 PM
Sounds an exact replay of Zou and Henry.Come on Bertha, give in and give him the impression he is top bun. (We women all know its only an impression, and we know who really ‘wears the trousers/pants in the house’. Sssshh)
Once she gives in completely, you’ll be home and dry…. but only Bertha is the judge of when that will be
Lol, so true
. She’s already groomed him more than she ever groomed Bunston, so I keep telling him “buddy, you don’t know how good you have it!”. Bertha’s prob thinking, “I’m getting to old for these teenage shenanigans”I also just remodeled their condo yesterday, so I keep telling them that once they prove they can be friends they will get to live in their sweet new mansion.
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Posted By sarahthegemini on 6/18/2017 2:00 PM
I wouldn’t stress them if I were you, I don’t feel it’s necessary tho some might disagree. If you feel that they are getting antsy at the smaller space, you could always increase and see what happens. It might make them less irritable and thus more likely to get along.Yeah, you’re prob right. Being cooped up in the kitchen is prob stressful enough. The mostly just get hyper around meal times (as most bunnies do), and just after we turn out the lights at night. I realized I may have been unintentionally rewarding them acting crazy, since I have been feeding them to calm them down! Now that they are living in the kitchen, so they know when I am getting the veggies out (Moose has been trying to steal the bags straight out of the fridge
) and will start running around. So I am going to try to wait till they calm down for a few seconds on their own to give them their veggies. Thinking about a bit more space… it will be hard to do until they are moved into their final living space, as to expand out of the kitchen would put them over carpet, and Bertha is a big time carpet digger.
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
It’s going a bit better today! I was scouring some other bonding journals and saw that sometimes it makes a big difference whether the buns can see you, and I realized that some of the increase in chasing etc happened after I took down a cardboard piece that was blocking their view of the rest of the apartment.
I put up a blanket over the fence, and have seen a lot more snuggling, and more grooming by Moose today!
Who knows whether it was just the extra time… but I think the blanket is helping too!
There was still a bit of chasing this morning, but also a lot more grooming by both buns, so I think we are still progressing…
I had blocked off two weeks for this, so I am getting slightly nervous that they won’t be quite done by then (we have some in-town plans this weekend, and have to be in my office early next week), but I’m thinking if I don’t quite feel comfortable moving them to the condo, I will at least be OK with them alone living in the kitchen for a few hours during the weekend. They haven’t had any serious for about three weeks, including since we started marathoning, just the occasional “get outta my face” lunge by Bertha. And all the disputes have happened right before meals when I am actually in the kitchen with them.
So, I’m trying to just stay out of their way and let their love blossom.
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Ohhhhh K, so things are going much better! Yesterday there was much more snuggling and grooming throughout the day, and this morning when I was getting their breakfast ready (the time when they have been a little crazy), they just traded grooms! When Bertha got tired of him asking, she did nip him a few times, but no fur pulled and no chasing!
I did make sure to pet them both when I first went in the kitchen to calm them down a bit, but mostly I think they have just progressed with more time and the blanket covering the fence. I did hear once that you can expect each step to take about the same amount of time (like, if you spent 2 days in neutral, you will prob need 2 days in semi-, etc). So far that seems to be holding here. They spent about 4 days in neutral, and now it’s been 4 in semi-neutral.
Here they are snuggling after breakfast (this is also the first time I’ve witness them snuggle fully laid out like this):
So now the question is, when are the ready for the big move to their condo?
EEEEEK!. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
So, I think they are almost done!
I had to go into my office today, but my husband worked from home. I got home about an hour ago, and every time I peak in at them, they are cuddling! He said throughout the day they just did “bunny stuff” and were cuddling maybe about 1/3 of the times he peaked in at them. I think I tend to spy on them more than he does (he just works on his computer a few feet away, but out of sight). I was thinking I might move them to the condo tonight, but the fleece I ordered hasn’t arrived yet, so it’ll wait till tomorrow. Probably for the best anyway, since a little extra time cementing the snuggles never hurt anyone.
I’ve been so worried about Bertha since Bunston died (about 1.5 years ago), even though she is very tightly bonded to me, and after her last bonding attempt went sour I was wondering if I should try again. It makes me so happy and relieved to see her and moose snuggling up and grooming each other.
We aren’t totally done yet, so I’m hoping all goes smoothly when they move to the condo!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
This doesn’t really have much to do with their bonding process, but poor Moose gave me quite the scare this morning! I had just gotten out of bed, and the garbage truck was outside. I stepped into the kitchen to start my morning, and Moose startled and started bolting back and forth, crashing into the fence at each end.
I was able to stop him and cover his eyes pretty quickly until he calmed down. Poor baby! Bertha seemed to have the same expression I did: confused and concerned.
He calmed down, Bertha gave him some grooms, they ate their breakfast uneventfully, and are now sleeping.
Poor Moose! I’ve never had a bunny get spooked like that, I’m glad I was there to stop him from hurting himself. Bertha is pretty much unphased by most things, and is very used to the sounds outside on our street, so at least she was able to be a calming example.
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
About 24 hours ago we took the plunge and moved them into their condo! I cleaned it very well, replaced the dowels, covered the levels with peel and stick tiles, and fresh fleece. Plus I rearranged the levels so it was a different layout.
Things have been going pretty well! A little bit of chasing when I gave them more space, a little fur pulling in the first 30 min of being in there. But, there was some grooming within an hour, and nothing eventful over night! I woke up to them snuggling on the top level, and I think they were cuddling at a few points in the night whenever I would wake up enough to peek over at them.
Since they did so well overnight, we gave them some more space this morning. A little chasing, but not too bad. Bertha was binkying all over the place, she was so happy to be able to run around again!
Today was also fine, kept them confined to the condo. I came home (my husband was home all day) to them sleeping on the same level, and a little while later they groomed each other. Yay!
Let them have more space again this evening. A little chasing by Bertha, but same pattern I’ve seen every time we switch areas, so I’m guessing it will settle down, especially since they are snuggling and grooming already.
It feels so nice to have our kitchen and bathroom back, lol! And even nicer to see the bunnies happy and playing with their new toys and binkying!
Here they are exploring the remodeled condo (the tapestry is just hung up to make the area look different, but I kind of like it!)
Lounging after breakfast this morning:
Morning snuggles:
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Well, I’m calling them bonded!
They moved into their condo about 2 weeks ago, and haven’t had any major issues! A few nips around meal times at first, one fur clump from Moose, but they seem really happy overall!
Once we finally gave them full run of the apartment again we had binkies galore! Now that they have more space again, they have been better around meal times too.
Yay!
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Posted By DanaNM on 7/10/2017 10:16 AM
Ok, so the last two days, Bertha has been very “grumpy” in the morning! She’s been lunging at Moose, chasing a bit yesterday. Yesterday got a small fur tuft of his. Nothing that has evolved into a scuffle or anything.
I’ve heard that some couples get “hangry” at meal times, so I’m wondering if that’s what’s happening? After breakfast they seem to go back to normal, but weren’t quite as snuggly yesterday. But then again it’s been really hot here.
I’ve also heard small “tiffs” are normal in newly bonded pairs, so should I just keep an eye on things? Do your pairs every act this way?
I’m very cautious, since Bertha had one failed bond just prior to this, but her first bond was all snuggles and rainbows, and never any lunging or chasing once they were bonded.
Hmm, well I personally believe that even bonded pairs will have the odd scuffle because it’s impossible to get on 24/7. Mine had a little scuffle 7 weeks after we called them ‘officially bonded’ and we found some fur tufts a couple of weeks ago which may have been the result of a moult or a little disagreement (I still don’t know!) They’ve been bonded since mid January. Other than that, it’s pretty much all hunky dory. There’s the occasional chase if Peanut is annoying Buttercup but by chase I mean a 5 second chase (10 if she’s really annoyed lol) that stops before it really gets started. I never have to worry about it escalating or having to stop it myself. It’s pretty uneventful
Aside from the two incidents I mentioned of course. And the 2nd one, we came downstairs to see the fur but they’d clearly stopped before hurting one another and made up 
)I guess it comes down to two things:
1) What actually happens between them during these ‘scuffles’ and
2) What happens if you don’t intervene/do you have to physically stop it from progressing?
If they stop on their own before it turns nasty, I don’t think you should worry.
-
Thanks Sarah and Vienna!
We are in a studio apartment, so as soon as they hear my alarm in the morning, they start getting excited to come out of their condo.
It does seem like they stop on their own without (much) intervention from me, but I’ll try to hold off on evening saying “hey! knock it off!” to see what happens.
Right before I had to leave for work I was giving them some dried bamboo to munch on, and same thing happened again, but this time Bertha scared Moose enough for him to squeal.
She didn’t get any fur, but lunged at him when he was in a corner and I think he felt pinned.Moments before she had done a huge flop next to him (belly facing him, which I interpret as a sign of trust). He stayed there breifly but then left. Maybe she has hurt feelings that he doesn’t snuggle her enough? I really don’t know what has gotten into her. They are both molting right now, are there a big wildfires in our area, so maybe we are all just on edge.
I decided to vacuum, and wait until I was sure they were calm before I left…. but I am still worried.
I am going to try not to feed them while they are acting crazy, since I might be unintentionally rewarding aggressive behavior, but this hot and cold behavior is so confusing. Maybe I should take them on a car ride later?
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Posted By DanaNM on 7/10/2017 1:36 PM
Thanks Sarah and Vienna!
We are in a studio apartment, so as soon as they hear my alarm in the morning, they start getting excited to come out of their condo.
It does seem like they stop on their own without (much) intervention from me, but I’ll try to hold off on evening saying “hey! knock it off!” to see what happens.
Right before I had to leave for work I was giving them some dried bamboo to munch on, and same thing happened again, but this time Bertha scared Moose enough for him to squeal.
She didn’t get any fur, but lunged at him when he was in a corner and I think he felt pinned.Moments before she had done a huge flop next to him (belly facing him, which I interpret as a sign of trust). He stayed there breifly but then left. Maybe she has hurt feelings that he doesn’t snuggle her enough? I really don’t know what has gotten into her. They are both molting right now, are there a big wildfires in our area, so maybe we are all just on edge.
I decided to vacuum, and wait until I was sure they were calm before I left…. but I am still worried.
I am going to try not to feed them while they are acting crazy, since I might be unintentionally rewarding aggressive behavior, but this hot and cold behavior is so confusing. Maybe I should take them on a car ride later?
I think it’s very important to see just how far it goes without intervention. Obviously you have to be really on guard tho, if it looks like it’s not going to stop you must jump in but it would be helpful to know if one or both buns are prepared to escalate.
My Peanut actually hasn’t tried sniffing Buttercup’s butt in about two weeks so she hasn’t had to chase him off….til about 10 minutes ago, he decided he was excited and sniffed her butt then chased her lol. When he chases her tho she just puts her bum up against a wall so he can’t get access to it
then he loses interest and one of them will groom the other. Buttercup is usually the one that grooms after a chase. Peanut has the best of both worlds here – a sniff of her bum AND he gets groomed after LMAO. Anyway, it’s a shame that Moose became so frightened that he squealed. I don’t have any experience with that but I do know bonded pairs can get a bit rambunctious when being fed. I wonder if someone that has this issue will chime in…? All I do to prevent this sort of issue is either scatter feed or hand feed them at exactly the same time. Otherwise they’ll try and take whatever treat out of the other’s mouth lol. They can get boisterous but never lungey or anything.
-
Posted By DanaNM on 7/10/2017 2:37 PM
Thanks Sarah, that’s interesting about the bum sniffing! I did notice Moose sniffing her bum a bit this morning, but she didn’t react at all and nothing came of it.
Yeah… the squeal was heart breaking. I keep forgetting he is still relatively a baby compared to Bertha (11 months vs. 7 years). I will try harder not to intervene, since it does seem like I am somehow always the trigger for these squabbles.
I have never noticed Moose escalating. It’s always Bertha instigating and him running away. Although, I do notice him trying to grab food out of her mouth, and he wolfs down all pellets immediately, whereas Bertha will eat for a while and then would prefer to munch on them throughout the morning. I’ve had to reduce the pellets overall, since I know Moose is just going to eat all of whatever I give them, even if it’s two portions worth. Maybe Bertha is more agro since she isn’t getting as many pellets?
Just to add more info, I’ve been scatter feeding pellets to try to slow Moose down, but I almost feel like it’s making him frantic. Maybe I should try two separate bowls? I’ve also been feeding veggies in a big pile. Disputes don’t happen once the food is in front of them, only when they anticipate it.
Buttercup is just fussy and doesn’t tolerate bum sniffing, she is happy to stick her nose right up between Peanut’s butt area tho and he just lays there unless she accidentally tickles his feet. It’s quite uncomfortable to watch LMAO.
It’s great that they are happy once the food is in front of them. Mine are currently off veggies at the moment but I was just putting a piled up plate down for them to share and they were quite happy to share altho if a particularly tasty piece took their fancy they would just try and take it from the other. Then it’d be a lady and the tramp moment but less romantic lol. And more forceful pulling
I half scatter and half pile up their dried dandelion tho, as long as they can both easily get to it they’re happy.For the pellets, would hand feeding them little and often throughout the day be viable? Two bowls might work but it could cause more issues particularly if Moose eats so quickly, would Bertha be quite possessive if he then tried to eat out of her designated bowl?
-
Posted By DanaNM on 7/10/2017 4:18 PM
Hahahaha, yes mine yank food out of each other’s mouths too! Especially dandelion! Definitely a less romantic lady and the tramp. It’s so strange, because they don’t seem to mind that at all, they just get another piece! Moose will also grab a leaf and do a “victory lap” around the apartment with it in his mouth. I would think he’s running from Bertha, but he used to do this when he was living solo too, so I think it’s a hold-over from growing up with his brothers!
Feeding pellets throughout the day isn’t really viable. My husband often does work from home, but I worry that would just make them more amped up for longer.
They don’t seem to mind butting noses over pellets at all, and will be furiously sniffing near each other seeking them out (we joke that they turn into little hoovers during pellet feeding time).
I will give the two bowls a shot. Lately I’ve been hiding the pellets in their stacking cups, and it’s really adorable to watch them toss the cups around to get the pellets!
But, maybe if Bertha can at least eat her fill of her first portion without Moose searching frantically around her, she might chill out a bit. I must have accidentally ended up with two little pigs instead of bunnies!
Oh my gosh, the victory lap sounds hilarious! I am just picturing it now
Bunnies are so funny I sometimes think I ended up with two rabbit-pig hybrids! It’s worth trying the two bowl thing. Or you could get two treat balls to put the pellets in but make Bertha’s more accessible and Mooses’s a bit more tricky to keep him busy for longer
-
Well, last night things seemed to be improving. They snuggled a bit. Less chasing. I did the separate food bowls and it seemed to go fine. The buns were less frantic that way, so I think that’s an improvement.
This morning was better in some ways, but worse in others. Bertha was more calm, and there was only one chase, which seemed more like play and didn’t develop into anything. But, after Moose refused to groom Bertha, anytime he would come near she would lunge at him.
So, it seems like she still isn’t convinced that he knows she’s dominant? The lunging happened after breakfast, so I can’t blame it on hunger!
Maybe she’s picking up on some body language from him that I’m missing? He has been asking for grooms a lot, maybe she’s getting annoyed? Or she’s miss-reading his searching for food as an attempt to mount? Maybe he did something I didn’t see that really made her mad?
I tried putting some banana on her head to see if even fake grooming would soothe. She looked in bliss while he was licking it off, but then a few minutes later, when he came near and didn’t groom again, she lunged again.
*sigh*. Just a couple days ago they were perfect. I don’t want them to cycle into him being afraid of her, since I don’t think that will be a sound bond. Nothing has developed into a scuffle, so maybe they just need to keep working on their dominance issues? Moose has been neutered for about 6 months, but is still young, so maybe is having some hormone surges?
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Sorry. Spelling.
Fibafirst. I pay £10 for 2kg…
I don’t know if they exist over yonder or if they are under a different name….
Its by a UK firm, Supreme Petfoods. I first saw them at my vet practice, much more expensive than on the website named after the world’s largest river
The sticks are so much more less messy than hay – lol. (!!! Grammar shock!)We all know hungry tummies make grumpy people…. ahem… bunnies.
-
Just checked on amazon com… 35USD for 2 kg… that’s sent in 4 boxes of 500g.
well worth a try at least once imho as they are fab.
Maybe your vets has an open box that you could ask for a sample (well, two… ) Errrr just checked again => 7USD for 500g !!!! (???), so buy 4x500g it is cheaper !!
(One day someone will have to explain to me, bulk buying “bargains”….) -
Just to update this, all has been going swimmingly. Moose can still be a pest asking for grooms, but Bertha doesn’t mind. She just ignores him if she doesn’t want to. He’s taken to snuggling up to her bum, not sure if he thinks maybe it will groom him, but it’s pretty cute either way.
. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
-
Posted By DanaNM on 7/26/2017 3:11 PM
Just to update this, all has been going swimmingly. Moose can still be a pest asking for grooms, but Bertha doesn’t mind. She just ignores him if she doesn’t want to. He’s taken to snuggling up to her bum, not sure if he thinks maybe it will groom him, but it’s pretty cute either way.
Aw that’s nice to hear, especially the butt snuggling
Go Moose and Bertha!
-
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.