Best needles for Sub Q Fluids

[Dee]

Hey everyone, I was reading about sub q’s (as usual) and saw something about Tempura (sp?) needles being much better than others. I have Monoject 2015-07 needles- they say 18X1A  on them, also 1.2mmX25.4mm. They look huge to me- but I’ve never done this before. For those of you that do sub q’s, what are your favorite needles to use? And how do you get them? I tried to order them online but my “transaction was declined”. I didn’t think it said I needed a prescription, though it did for the lactated ringers. I was thinking may 20G Tempura needles may be better for little BunBun… but want opinions here before I go searching for them. Thanks!

[Sarita]

I really don’t know – I just use what my vet gives me. They come in different gauges. If you are having a problem with your current needles, see if your vet can recommend a different gauge. What gauge are you using now?

[Dee]

Hi Sarita- I think I’m using 18G which I’m reading is common but kinda big for cats, so they must be big for BunbUn. I didn’t worry much about it before, but last night I went through Bun’s skin and out the other side and stabbed myself in the finger. I just pulled the needle back and the fluid started flowing fine, but after only 20ml BunbUn started struggling so much I had to pull the needle out. He was nipping Rick even before I injected him, but Rick says he thinks I was hurting him and that’s why he was fighting more than usual. Now I feel awful . This is what happened the last time- I did great, then Rick said I stabbed the needle in too hard, and I couldn’t get the needle in for about 2-3 tries I was trying to be so gentle. I’m wondering how I could have been hurting him more than the usual needle stick? I know I was sticking the needle down into his flesh, so I’m not sure what else I could’ve been doing wrong.

Oh yeah- the needles that are suposed to be good are Terumo, not terpura- lol. Tempura is the batter in which some Japanese food is fried. There’s a great restaraunt nearby that has tempura- now I will be thinking of that all day- lol.

[Sarita]

LOL – I love tempura too.

Have you tried sitting on the floor and putting Bunbun in between your legs? That’s the best way for me to do fluids – in the bathroom where they cannot get away since it’s a smaller place. I also think that you can use the alcohol to kind of wet and you can find the skin easier this way too. Also when I do fluids I would pet him on the head and talk to him.

When you have him between your legs have the head away from your body and the tail closer to you (does that make sense?).

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I believe you can buy needles at any medical supply store. We can buy them here at a pet store that is also a pharmacy and kind of a farm supply store-so those types (Farm supply stores) are good to try too. The only thing I’ve heard or seen is butterfly catheters being used-and those are just the type not the brand so I’m no help. http://www.harvardapparatus.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/haisku2_10001_11051_34737_-1_hai_ProductDetail_N_37510_37540 Except-yes you can buy them in your town rather then online-may be easier

[Dee]

Hi Sarita- I haven’t tried holding BunBun myself while I do fluids- I really should try it though. It would be great to not have to bother my husband every time. He gets so upset about giving Bun the needle, even though I’m the one doing it, and he freaks me out too cuz he always says maybe I’m hurting Bun or maybe I have done something wrong giving the injection. Bun may sense his anxiety and reluctance to hold onto him too, and that would make him struggle even harder. So you can inset the needle facing towards the bunny’s head? I wasn;t sure, but I think a vet tech did that with Bun one time. That would be much easier, even if Rick had to hold him every time, because Rick can only hold Bun facing one direction-he says if he holds Bun the other way he will escape (I have no idea what he’s talking about either- lol), So I go in the same spot every night- hope he doesn’t get sore from all the needle pokes.

Thank you Kokaneeandkahlua- I will try that link. I called my vet and they said that I would probably need a prescription for needles. I hope not- it may be a United States thing- everything here has so much red tape involved. My vet said they have never heard of the Terumo needles but they will give me some 20G ones if I come out there. So tomorow I will take the ride, at least then I’ll have smaller needles for Bun til I can hopefully get the ones I want.

[Sarita]

Okay, pulled out the ones I always use (I only know when I go to the vet it’s the one with the green cap…). Mine are Monojet 250 – 18 x 1A which I think is the gauge. So I’m guessing these are the ones you have and those work best for me. I’ve tried the ones with the pink top (again only know by color right off) and those were too small. The smaller they are, the longer it will take for the fluid to flow I think.

[KatnipCrzy]

I don’t think brand makes any difference in needles for SQ fluids at all.  The 20 x 1- means it is a 20 gauge needle- the higher the gauge the larger the needle- and the 1 is one inch in length.

Once you get the needle poked thru the tent of skin the only thing likely to bother the bunny is being held still and the fact that the fluids will feed cold as room temp fluids are still colder than body temp.  Make sure the keep the needle in the tent of skin and not touching the “body” it keeps the fluids running better and is less likely to poke the bunnies muscles which could hurt.

The smaller gauge needle- the slower fluids will be able to pass thru the needle.  I think 20 or 22 is fine and it depends on the rabbit- some will do better with larger needle and getting it done quicker- where some bunnies could be better with smaller needle and more time needed to push that amounts of fluids.

And fluids can be given thru big syringe or from the bag with a line- for Griffin that needed a lot of fluids- I liked the syringe even though he needed more pokes.  And always use a new needle for each poke (or at least no more than twice)- it seems odd but even poking the skin or drawing from a vial or bag dulls the needle some.  Griffin needed his fluids in about 2 spots to get all the fluids in so it worked well for me to use one needle to draw up (saved that one and always used it to draw up and recap syringe when done) and used a second needle and did both of his injection spots with that needle and then discarded it.

[Dee]

Thanks for the info, KatnipCrzy . Yes, I switched to 20G needles and it seems to take a lot longer to get the fluid into Bun. We’re supposed to be giving 150ml daily- which seems like a HUGE amount to me- but we’re lucky if we get 100ml into him before he’s had it and is struggling to get down. It’s probably only a few minutes, but it seems like a lifetime. I do use a new needle each time- I change it right after I finish giving the sub q so I don’t forget. About the needle placement, that’s my biggest fear besides infection- hitting the muscle instead of the sub q area. I tent the skin, poke the needle in, then release the skin and try to move the needle as little as possible. BunBun is a plump little rabbit with rather tight skin, so he’s not easy to work on. I feel like I never get enough skin for the tent. I ordered those Terumo needles in 20G so we’ll see if those make a difference… just like you, I’m kinda skeptical as to whether the brand of needle is gonna make a big difference. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised!

How much fluid did Griffin need? If he needed it done in 2 spots, it must have been a lot. I guess it’s the kind of thing we get used as we get more practice- my hands still shake every time .

[Dee]

Thanks for the info, KatnipCrzy . Yes, I switched to 20G needles and it seems to take a lot longer to get the fluid into Bun. We’re supposed to be giving 150ml daily- which seems like a HUGE amount to me- but we’re lucky if we get 100ml into him before he’s had it and is struggling to get down. It’s probably only a few minutes, but it seems like a lifetime. I do use a new needle each time- I change it right after I finish giving the sub q so I don’t forget. About the needle placement, that’s my biggest fear besides infection- hitting the muscle instead of the sub q area. I tent the skin, poke the needle in, then release the skin and try to move the needle as little as possible. BunBun is a plump little rabbit with rather tight skin, so he’s not easy to work on. I feel like I never get enough skin for the tent. I ordered those Terumo needles in 20G so we’ll see if those make a difference… just like you, I’m kinda skeptical as to whether the brand of needle is gonna make a big difference. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised!

How much fluid did Griffin need? If he needed it done in 2 spots, it must have been a lot. I guess it’s the kind of thing we get used as we get more practice- my hands still shake every time .

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