Back to bonding Usagi and Kilala

[Sindri]

I have been trying to bond Usagi and Kilala off and on for months. I have tried pretty much everything. Stress bonding in a box was the only thing I kind of made progress with, however we are stuck. They fight  and then ignore each other. Usagi  has groomed Kilala in the past but the other day she wasn’t having any of it and would attack Usagi if he tried. He would give up and sit next to her.

So I am trying to figure out what do try next, but I do feel that I need to move away from using the box. They both don’t look forward to that at all. So any suggestions would be appreciated. I really am motivated to get them bonded once and for all this time. My grandson is about to be born anytime now and I will be taking care of him alot and would love to have my son’s old room back to make a nursery for him and a guest room for when my grand daughter comes over on her weekends.

I was curious though would it be a good idea to just go for a marathon bonding session? I could put them in their box and once they seem to calm down and ignore each other perhaps move them to an expen set up and keep them together all day? I have tried to do that in the past and it didn’t go well but I need to try something else. If I do this what sort of things should I put in the expen? Last time I put their litter boxes in there I don’t want them to become territorial and start fights over stuff. Should I get new ones that neither have used before?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[MoveDiagonally]

Can you give me a quick synopsis of what you’ve done to bond them? Have you taken any breaks, how long? How often do you do bonding sessions? Ect…

Just a quick side note: We ask that people do not use extra big (or small) or “fancy” text because it makes it harder for others to read it on different devices. I’ve edited your post to correct the text.

[Sindri]

Sorry about the text. I have a couple of past post on my bonding them. I started bonding my rabbits in January I think its been along time now. I have taken short breaks and then a really long one. Before I tried bonding in our bath tubs ( we have 2 bathrooms). That didn’t go well. I tried making the space smaller with an expen then I tried the boxes and stressed bonded that way. My sessions were short then they were mostly 30 to 45 minutes long. my problems is my rabbits instantly fight and I don’t mean little nips.Fur flies and Usagi has been bitten on the lip where it bleed and that was when he got into her room by accident once. My male was the attacker in the past but now Kiala attacks as well now they both start fighting. If I don’t pick the box up and move it they wont stop fighting. I have tried breaking fights up with using the vaccum but that doesn’t work at all. I have used spray bottles in the past and that didn’t work either. I do have a toy that my grand daughter plays with here that is an elephant that blows balls up in the air and makes a lot of noise that breaks up fights too. I used that in the past when I tried to have a long bonding session in the past but it got to where that didn’t help after awhile.
I just don’t understand why after all this time they cant stop instantly fighting. Its made me feel bad in the past like I wasn’t doing things right but I have followed TanLover’s info on her sight and tried a lot of her ideas. That’s where I got the box idea from. If there was a bonding service where I lived they would go there. hehe
Anyways that’s pretty much the history of these two little fighters of mine. I hope that’s the info you were looking for.

[MoveDiagonally]

I’m not sure that a marathon session would help if nothing has changed since the last time you’ve tried it. Do they stop fighting after a point?

How long was your long break? I think you might need a good long “reset” break. No interaction at all for a at least a month. Keep them as separate as possible so they can “forget” each other. After a long break I would then try a re-introduction where you stress them separately and then put them together in a laundry basket or cube and stress them again. I would focus on very short sessions, in which hopefully they aren’t fighting, so they can build up a positive association with each other.

Another option that has helped others with really aggressive rabbits is a complete change of scenery (a friend’s house).

[MoveDiagonally]

I was at work earlier and now that I’m home I’ve looked back through some of your posts. It sounds like you saw the most improvement with stress bonding.

If you want to try immediately without another break I do suggest pre-stressing the bunnies before putting them together and stressing them some more. I did this by using a NIC cube:

I loved the cube for stress bonding because it was really versatile. You can carry it around (or put it on a office chair and push it around). Jostle it take it in a car, take it outside, suspend it.

My early sessions with my trio (now a quintet) basically went like this:
1. Put more aggressive rabbit in cube and stress them.
2. Add second rabbit and stress them.
3. Set down cube. If they started getting aggressive I would pick up the cube and re-stress them. Repeat until they would sit together without fighting for a few moments and then end the session.

I’m not sure if you’ve tried something like this before but I found it helpful with my more aggressive bunnies.

[Sindri]

Thanks for the help. I built my box like that and then I made it a little bit bigger. That’s what I have been doing with them. I like your suggestion about stressing them on their own first before putting them together. I had a pretty long break the last time I quit Febuary 7th I wrote it on a calendar “It was marked last attempt at bonding”. I was basically giving up at that point. Then a few months later Usagi needed a check up and their nails cut so I thought I would do some new bonding by taking them both to the vet in their box. the drive is about 40 minutes it went well but they got into a fight at the vet’s office halfway threw and had to be separated.
So I have been back at it now for a few days. I will try what you suggested see how it goes. Thanks again for the help. I just went for a nightly walk in the park and saw all kinds of bunny couples. It made me wish mine were a couple. We will get there one day. hehe

[Sindri]

Oh and I forgot to answer your question about if they ever stopped fighting, they only stop if I pick up the box and move it then they will either start right back or take a break and then one will start a fight again. Then usually after a third fight if it was bad I will separate them. I used to stroll them around the house also that kept them from fighting but they didn’t interact much except eventually Usagi would groom Kilala but now she doesn’t let him. She never attempts to interact except to fight.

[MoveDiagonally]

My only other suggestion regarding the cube/box would be to reduce the size. I made mine small because it forced them together and it made it harder for them to fight because there wasn’t a lot of room. My bunnies are on the larger size though.

I would do stress cube/box sessions until they stop fighting right off the bat. At that point I would try a short neutral session. If they fight at that point I would return them to the cube for more stress bonding, so on. With really aggressive rabbits the early stages of bonding always seem like the hardest!

Best of luck!

[Sindri]

I will put them in a smaller box again. This one was the one I made bigger when I thought we were making progress in the past. Thanks again for the help!

[Sindri]

It sure has been a busy past few days. I thought I would update on my bonding. I have only had a chance to do one bonding session since I last wrote which was Thursday night. It lasted about 15 to 20 minutes and there was only a little nipping at the beginning and once during which I picked up the box and the fighting stopped. I think Kilala was a little too mad at me from having to chase her down to put her in the box that she didn’t have any fight left in her to fight back with Usagi. I think it was helpful. It sucked chasing her down though. hehe
My son’s birthday was the next day and I ended up spending my day and night with him and his wife her mother in the hospital. My grandson decided he was ready to be born early. He was born on my son’s birthday. It was nice. So Saturday was spent sleeping and at the hospital. Then the next day I spent the day with my grand daughter. Yesterday I had to clean and help my son and his wife out. Tonight I will have some time for a short bonding session. I will keep it up with the box like before. Thanks again for the advice!

[Sindri]

I had another bonding session yesterday and kept it short it was maybe 15 minutes. It was surprisingly nice and cool for a July early evening so while it was still light out I took the rabbits out in the box in the back yard. They did really well. They didn’t have any fights and once Usagi was finished grooming Kilala I brought them back inside and finished with that. I was really proud of them.

[Sindri]

I have had a couple of bonding sessions since I wrote last. They went well and were short. I didn’t have my camera so I didn’t take pictures.

Today I had a session that lasted around 45 minutes. There was a little nipping in the middle of the session that was done by Usagi but it wasn’t serious and ended quickly. It rained earlier today and it made it cool so I decided to take the rabbits outside for  a bit. So I did a little bonding outside and a little in the house. I think it went well. Towards the end I added 2 small piles of hay with a craisin. Usagi ate some hay and his craisin. He groomed Kilala ALOT and ate some of his hay. Kilala didn’t eat any of her hay or her craisin. I wish she could get more comfortable like Usagi seems to be getting.

All in all this is going much better than the past times I have tried this. The bunnies might be a little mad at me but I think it will be well worth it in the end. I am going to keep moving slowly and perhaps make their box bigger next week if things keep going well.

Here are a couple of pics. It looks like Usagi is biting Kilala but he is just grooming her.

[MoveDiagonally]

I’m glad things seem to be improving! Keep up the good work.

[Sindri]

Thank you so much for your input and support thus far. I have a good feeling that this is going to finally workout.

[Sindri]

I am excited about today’s bunny bonding session. I walked them around in the box and then put them in an expen that I made smaller  with some hay and water for each bunny. I had the vacuum on stand by for any disputes. There were 3 time where Usagi lunged at Kilala but he didn’t bite her. The thing I am excited by was Kilala was comfortable enough to eat some hay and her craisin. She groomed herself several times as well. The big thing is she has never ate with Usagi before so that shows she is more comfortable. It makes me happy. I got in with them during that time and Usagi would come close to Kilala and would watch her eat and then run back to his little area of hay and water. I think it made him feel safer and give him courage to get close to her.

This may not sound like anything exciting but its a big step that has been made for my bunnies. I am happy and proud of them!

[Sindri]

Today’s bonding session didn’t go so well. I decided that since they were doing well in the box and an expen made smaller that I would have a long bonding session. Hubby and I took them for a short ride before. Then I put them in the pen with make shift litter boxes full of hay and water bowls so they have their own items that weren’t their normal items just in case they became territorial.

They had some small fights nothing bad at all and I stopped them with the vacuum.They would ignore each other and had picked their sides. They were together for around maybe 3 hours. Usagi went over to Kilala and started grooming her and eating beside her. I could tell though she was just putting up with it. Soon she had enough and would run away and stomp her feet and he would follow her after awhile. He wasn’t being mean sometimes he would be able to groom her but she would just run away and act like she was being attacked. It kind of got him on edge. I put them back in their box at that point because it was obviously too long of a visit for Kilala. I kept them in the box for a few minutes and Usagi groomed her again then I put them in their rooms. It seems the “wearing them down” method I was using worked on Usagi but Kilala just isn’t ready to accept him yet.

So I guess its back to short visits and stress bonding. If anyone has any input or ideas I am open to hearing them.

[Sindri]

I need to get some pictures posted on here soon. I keep forgetting batteries for my camera. Anyway after my last session of bonding that I wrote about above I decided to put them back together again the next day. The second session like that was shorter. It was a mix of stress bonding and the expen. Usagi wanted to be close to Kilala right away but she didn’t like that and started running around the pen like crazy so I put them back in their box and as soon as I did Usagi hopped over to Kilala and started grooming her. I put my rabbits in my grand daughters stroller and walked them around outside for a bit and then put them back in the expen. Usagi sat and ate hay next to Kilala and groomed her from time to time she ate a little as well and they explored the expen.

So it went a lot better I am slowly but surely making progress. I took yesterday off to give them a break but I am going to have short visits during the week. Sunday is my only free day to do a long session so I will do that again then. I will post pictures when I get a chance and batteries.

[Sindri]

I haven’t posted on here in awhile. I was hoping to have pictures but none really turned out well enough to put on here. I had to take a few days off from bonding because my husband had surgery. I have been back at it the past couple of days. Things seem to be so going better when it comes to fights. I do have a problem I am trying to remedy and some helpful ideas or suggestions would really help.

This is my issue. Both rabbits have their own litter boxes in the expen. Kilala goes and sits in hers and when she wants to get out and explore Usagi with go after her and she gets scared and goes back into her box. They aren’t fighting but she is scared to explore and Usagi is always chasing her if she does. I am not sure how to fix this issue. I do start out stress bonding before they go in and from time to time when this happens I will take them and put them back in their box and walk them around. So anyways if anyone has any ideas or suggestions about this I would greatly appreciate it.

I plan to just keep at it. They have spent a few hours at a time together the past 2 days. Tommorow I am going to try for most of the day and see what happens.

[Sindri]

Here are a couple of pictures of the buns. They have had 2 8 hour bonding sessions. I increased their space yesterday and there has been binkying done by both rabbits and they were playing with each other last night. They are going to have another session today. I am getting to the point I think where I am going to set Usagi up somewhere else and clean his bunny room to have my bonding sessions there being they are going to live there once bonded. I will of course bond in the expen and increase the space like I am doing in the living room. If I have any set backs I will move back into the living room or stress bond. It all depends on how bad the set back is.

Tommorow it will be 1 year ago I brought  Kilala home.  I am so happy that things are going so well with these two after all the failed bonding sessions and breaks from the past. It is nice to see them together and spend time with them at the same time. Usagi still is bossy I see that when it comes to playing with their toys and chewing on magazines. There hasn’t been any biting or fights. They seem to be working out their issues well.

[Clarajb]

Wow, that sounds great!

[Sindri]

Since I last wrote they have spent 3 nights together in the living room. I didn’t sleep much that first night I kept checking on them to make sure they were all right.I spent yesterday ripping out carpet in Usagi’s room and put down new carpet. I got some that isn’t the thick kind I had before that the bunny liked chewing up. So now I need to wipe down all the baseboards and clean out cages and I am going to set up the room and put them in there today sometime.

I have had a lot of pets before but none that showed each other as much love as I have seen these 2 in the past few days. Its like watching love blossom between a couple. Usagi use to be the only groomer but now Kilala grooms him as well. They flop next to each other and are always near each other.

So when they are happily living in their room I will officially call them bonded. I hope they get along in their new space like they have in the living room.

[Sindri]

I tried to update my topic but didn’t get it figured out. I wanted to say that my bunnies are officially bonded!!! I will try to get some pics of them in their bunny room later.

Its taken 8 months of off and on bonding but its well worth it. I wanted to say thank you to all those out there that offered me input and advice from this post and previous posts.

[LolaBuns]

Congrats! It so much fun to watch two bunnies in love! I haven’t said “awe” this much ever since I have bonded my two.

[Sindri]

Thanks. I was saying “Awe” myself many times until tonight. Usagi has decided that he wants to mount Kilala she seems a bit annoyed by it. He runs towards her honking and she runs away. I am keeping an eye on the situation. I also see them run towards each other and then both put their heads down to be groomed and its funny to watch them and see who decides to give in a groom the other.
Btw you have a wonderful pair of bunnies. I think Berry is so cute.

[swedishbun]

So happy for you!

I feel the same way.  It’s only been two months, but my bunnies fight, it’s a lot of fur flying and grunting.  

I’ve been thinking of doing more stress bonding and will need to think of creative ways to do it.  After reading your story, I have some hope for mine.

Thank you for sharing.

[Sindri]

Thank you. It was pretty stressful and I gave up at times. I really found that the box worked best for me and I mainly used a baby stroller to put it in to walk them around. The weather had been good so walking them outside really helped change things up. I haven’t read your post but you could try box bonding and drag it around put it on top of a running dryer or walk them around. Some people do car rides I did a couple myself. I hope some of these ideas help you out. The main thing is be patient take your time perhaps take a break for a while and don’t let the rabbits see each other during this time if you can and start back up again. I hope some of these tips can help you out. I wish you lots of luck!

[swedishbun]

Thank you!

I think I will get the pet stroller.  I’ve had one in the past and since I live in an urban area I can walk everywhere.  That way, I can at least get errands/groceries done and take them with me.

When you say the “box” was it the NIC cube?  Might get that too.  I could at the very least put them in a box on my patio.

Just as I finished writing the last message on this thread, I looked up and saw Lillemor cleaning Bubbles’ head through the x-pen.  And then they continued eating dinner “together”.  Such little enigmas.

[Sindri]

I started out with a cardboard box then built the box in the picture with NIC grids. A pet stroller is a nice idea. I would have gotten one but I had a stroller already and used it. If you take them outside make sure the weather isn’t too hot. Mine were only outside for short walks up and down the street. I just took my box outside on the patio and in the yard. It was a good way to switch things up.

I will follow your bonding thread. I look forward to hearing how things go. I hope it goes well. I am sure it will. =)

[Zombie-Sue]

I always knew you could do it =)

[Sindri]

Thank you Zombie-Sue you were a big help during my past bonding sessions. I really appreciated it. I am glad I decided to give it another try.

[Author]

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