Back from a trip with company

[Eva_M]

So, we went to visit my husband’s parents for a couple of days and I had to leave Eva with my parents for babysitting. All went fairly well, except excessive feeding (my dad doesn’t know when enough is enough) but when she returned a shock followed.

His parents live in a different country and while we were there we met the most adorable and smart little doggy girl I have ever met. And unfortunately abused. She had never met another dog (1,5 year old), never was walked, had to poop and pee in the same space where she slept, was scared of her owner… awful. We managed to negotiate to take her with us and it’s like a flower has blossomed in the past 24 hours. Everything she does brings tears to my eyes – she stares at the TV wandering what the heck?…, runs on the grass sniffing every little thing – in short, a wonderful little creature. She’s a mix, that took mostly after labrador retriever.

To get to the point, we had no option but to take her with us immediately and there was no time to prepare ourselves or Eva. When she returned chaos broke loose – Micha (dog) was determined to sniff Eva and she naturally got frightened. This was the first time I heard her thumping. Now I don’t know what to do. Eva is used to our other dog Tara and jumps on her without any worries but Tara is like a mountain that rarely ever even turns her head to see the little black thingy sitting on top of her. Micha is a different story. We only had her for 24 hours but I see she’s bursting with energy and she’s younger so I’m a bit scared. I closed Micha off last night to give Eva some space to roam the apartment free over night and this morning I put her inside her cage. Micha is fixated on her and keeps whining in front of cage. She’s waving her tail the entire time so I really think she’s more in an interest, rather than hunt mode. At first Eva was frozen but in the last couple of hours they even sniffed each other through the bars a couple of times.

I need to find a way to get Micha to ignore her the same way Tara does but the whole “life outside of bars” is a new concept to her and I don’t know how long this process will last…

Sorry for the long post… I had to share my worries since I’m loaded with emotions at the moment…

[jerseygirl]

Firstly, bless you for taking the dog. I don’t think I could have left her where she was either!

It sounds like she will need some work. I would only let her interactions be with the family for now and not the other pets. It’s possibly too overwhelming. You also want her to develop a strong relationship with her and be certain in knowing she will always listen to your commands. I’m guessing training will be more successful without her being distracted. But I don’t have a dog so….

I’m pretty sure a couple members are dog trainers and others have life experience with rehabilitating dogs. I PM’d a couple members I think that can help.  I’m sure you’ll be getting some more specific advice.

Regarding Eva, it does sound as if it’s just a case of her becoming used to the new pet since she’s used to your other dog. She’s probably unsettled since she was away from home so going back to the routines will help her feel secure. If she was penned/caged more while she was with your parents, you may be able to continue this until you’re more confident about Micha’s behaviours. Her place should feel like her sanctuary and you have peace of mind knowin where she is when you have a possibly unpredictable dog around.

[Tate]

It will take some time to train Micha. The one thing you definitely need to remember is that a lab or lab mix is naturally going to want catch small, furry, delicious smelling morsels.
You can start training Micha like normal- you want her to really know the basic commands such as sit, stay, down, etc. By training her, your building your bond and you can be more sure that she will listen when you talk to her. A good command to work on as well is “leave it”. This works for all those things that dogs really really want, but just can’t have. You can use it to keep her away from Eva or even something as simple as not jumping up on the table to grab your food. Here’s the way that I teach it:
Get something that your dog completely desires- the thing that you know if you leave it with Micha, it will be torn up/gone in a matter of minutes. If you haven’t found this item yet, grab a hotdog, just enough that can fit in the palm of your hand. You will also need a good, smelly treat- Natural Balance rolls are awesome! They look like a sausages and they are sold at pet stores. You will want the hot dog in one hand and the treat in the other hand. Let Micha see and smell the hotdog (or whatever you use). She should be QUITE interested and at this time, say “Leave it”. She may paw at you, whine at you, but whatever you do, don’t let her have it. The second she glances away, give her the real dog treat immediately and lots of praise. Dogs tend to pick up very easily on this. To make it harder after a few days, lengthen the time between her looking away and you giving the treat. You can also work on different distances. Start small, with a food item or something forbidden. The key is to use something that she may never have- you don’t want to use her favorite chew toy because then “leave it” will simply be a command rather than a rule.
I actually taught my rabbit, Velvateen this. Hehe. He likes to beat up on his brother so I can tell him “leave it” or “back off” and he immediately walks away.
I would highly recommend the book, It’s Me or The Dog by Victoria Stillwell. Even though you have had a dog for quite a while, she gives good tips on how to get a dog to adjust to life in general. Micha sounds like she’s doing well, but remember where she is coming from. Being caged all day and night with no relationship to her owners… it’s normal for them to go somewhere new and think “OHMYGOSH! LOOK AT THIS! I HAVE FOOD! I HAVE A YARD! PEOPLE ARE TALKING TO ME!” But it can all get very overwhelming very quickly! So teaching her basic commands and getting her to look at you as a safety net will be so beneficial and prevent any unwanted behaviors. Plus, sometimes it’s good to have a whole book on commands and their uses. I used that book more than anything else when I was training dogs.
Hope that helps! Sorry if it reads like an advertisement. Haha.

[Tate]

Oh, also: when Micha is doing something “bad” to Eva like going crazy and trying to get at her through Eva’s cage, redirect her attention to something else- usually play is a good deterrent. Some people like to have either a whistle (although it may hurt Ava’s ears!) or a loud squeaky toy when their dog is doing something inappropriate like chasing another dog or whatever. It redirects their attention to something else and you don’t have to say a word. That way she’s not going to get any praise or punishment for what she’s doing- you just gave her something better to do.

[Eva_M]

Wow! Thank you so much for the information! I have had dogs all my life but I was always the “trained one” and I promised my self this time it will be different so I really need to start again from basics. And thanks for the reference too
I will definitely start teaching her to leave things because I see there’s a little playful devil sitting inside of her just waiting to come out But I don’t think I will be able to do it wright away – I have a problem with feeding her, in the last 48h she ate only a handful of dried dog food and this was from my hand. She wont go near the food bowl. I even tried giving her canned food – when she smells it she’s acting like any other dog, but when I put down the bowl she backs off… Hope this will change as soon as possible.
As for Eva, I sat down on the floor yesterday evening holding Micha so that she would stay still and Eva came to us from her cage and gave her a good sniffing. In turn she got licked all over her head. It seems like Micha caught on and this morning she was sneaking around like a little burglar – maybe she realized she can get closer if she doesn’t make sudden movements. Added “joy” for me is that now I have bunny pills all over the place – hope it will wear off soon. I’m keeping a close eye on both of them and hoping it will all turn out good.
My biggest concern is that I see Micha is really scared of people. She want’s to cuddle and follows me around everywhere but whenever I raise my hand to reach for something she flinches. Sad
On a brighter note she learned “sit” and “place”- go to your bed in a matter of hours.

[Tate]

For some reason, being scared of a bowl is much more common than many would think. It really only takes one time to build a negative association to something. So, maybe at the place she was at before, something bad happened with a bowl- she was fed rotten dog food, maybe a mouse or spider crawled into the bowl and freaked her out. If it’s a metal bowl, it could also be an issue with the noise the food makes as she’s trying to eat and it could be as simple as switching to a plastic bowl. If it’s not that, you can try adding something to the food like grated colby jack cheese or Natural Balance rolls. Make sure it’s something “special”… something that can be reserved just for when she eats out of the bowl.
As for the people issue- sometimes just getting her out there helps. Start in your own home where she is comfortable and have some friends come over. They can give her treats and pet her, but make sure that when they approach her, they aren’t looking directly into her eyes (this is a dominance thing and looking away says “I’m not a threat”) and tell them not to touch the top of her back or her head. It’s best to approach with your hand out first and allow her to smell you and she will either walk away or continue to stand there. If she’s still standing there, you can accept it as an invitation for pets on her chest and sides.
It’s good that Eva smelled her and that Micha didn’t want to eat her right away! Haha. Try to always keep “Eva time” very relaxed and lowkey. This will help Micha learn that it’s not playtime when Eva is out.
Sounds like you are on the right track! It can take some extra time to modify Micha’s behaviors, but it’s totally possible and it sounds like you have the right home and attitude.
Good luck!

[Tate]

Ah, one more thought about not eating out of a bowl: was she ever housed with other dogs? It’s possible they were all fed together and maybe she was housed with one dog in particular that was constantly trying to steal her food and push her out of the way. This generally leads to cage aggression, but it can cause general anxiety over eating in a bowl. Does she have a crate or do you have a small room? I’d recommend feeding her in there and shutting the door and leaving. This may make her feel more secure while she is eating.

[Eva_M]

I really need to share this ! I can hardly catch my breath and it’s been almost an hour since my ordeal. I came home after work and went on a walk with Micha. After walking for about 15 min (around buildings, across a small path uphill through woods and onto a large open field) two dogs approached us (they were playing near by) and Micha broke loose from my hands and started running like crazy straight into the woods. There was no way I could catch her, she’s like a lightning… I never saw a dog run that fast. I ran as fast as I could and people were directing me all the way – I finally found the poor thing sitting in front of our door waiting for me. I was freaked out, breathless, crying and proud (she did find her home after all) at the same time.
I’m still puzzled about what happened next. I opened the door, she came inside, slowly walked towards Eva and laid down beside her – whined a couple of times and closed her eyes like saying “ok, now I need to take a break”. Eva licked her face!
I feel so guilty for what happened, thank god it turned out ok. I really didn’t expect her to be so strong. I need to avoid being around other dogs for awhile.

Thank you Tate for all advices. I’m really grateful. I’ll try changing the bowl to plastic to see if that helps. She did have a metal bowl there with her. To answer your question – no, she was never around other dogs. She was closed of in a space that used to be a chicken coop. She pooped, peed and ate in an area that was not cleaned daily and was quite small. I don’t blame her for having no appetite.

[Tate]

How are Micha and Tara doing? Are they getting along?

[jerseygirl]

That is so great she was at your door! Wow! I’m really impressed she orienated herself so quickly. How many times had you taken her out since you had her? She certainly seems a quick learner.
 

I’m still puzzled about what happened next. I opened the door, she came inside, slowly walked towards Eva and laid down beside her – whined a couple of times and closed her eyes like saying “ok, now I need to take a break”. Eva licked her face!

Animals are the best! Obviously Eva has come become accustomed to the newcomer really quickly. What you’ve said actually reminds me of one of the things that apparently helps when your socialising a dog with a different animal. Exercise first (i.e. a walk) then do the work with them. It gets rid of the excess energy they have and into more focused mode.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I really need to share this ! I can hardly catch my breath and it’s been almost an hour since my ordeal. I came home after work and went on a walk with Micha. After walking for about 15 min (around buildings, across a small path uphill through woods and onto a large open field) two dogs approached us (they were playing near by) and Micha broke loose from my hands and started running like crazy straight into the woods. There was no way I could catch her, she’s like a lightning… I never saw a dog run that fast. I ran as fast as I could and people were directing me all the way – I finally found the poor thing sitting in front of our door waiting for me. I was freaked out, breathless, crying and proud (she did find her home after all) at the same time.
I’m still puzzled about what happened next. I opened the door, she came inside, slowly walked towards Eva and laid down beside her – whined a couple of times and closed her eyes like saying “ok, now I need to take a break”. Eva licked her face!
I feel so guilty for what happened, thank god it turned out ok. I really didn’t expect her to be so strong. I need to avoid being around other dogs for awhile.

My gosh!! Thank goodness she came home!! Does she have a tag yet? Better pick one up just in case!

My dog was a lot like that when we first brought him home- I didn’t count on ever being able to have him around the rabbits-we were set up to keep them seperate and keep everyone safe. But when I brought him home and he obsessed over them, with his high prey drive (identified by stillness, drooling, pointing and purposefully keeping the tail still-all hunting behaviors)-I figured we would NEVER be able to trust him with the bunnies. (note: no dog should ever be left alone with prey animals or children of course)

What I did was interupt and redirect his prey/obsession behaviors-so when he trotted down the hallway to stare, I interupted and we did something else.

He was curious, so I would bring out their toys or fur after brushing to let him smell them, eventually I would let him smell them while I handled them-while Dave had him on leash. It progressed well, and I could tell when he was comfortable progressing and when he was improving.
I taught him ‘gentle’ and ‘nice kisses’ to teach him how he could interact with the rabbits. I eventually built a little way into their room where he could come in and interact through bars so he could sniff, and they coudl come up and sniff him or hide. They all got used to this. Eventually I brought him in their room on a leash.
And today-he’s great with them. No prey drive signals, they aren’t scared. No issues (well besides that he eats their kibble, hay and poop! lol) I would never leave him alone with them but he certainly can interact without a leash. In fact Rupert comes right up and pushes Mikey around, and even has batted his tail.

One key is to make sure your little ball of energy is drop dead tired before you work with bunny-dog interactions. It’s no good to have a hyper dog who is full of pee and vinegar. So do a romp at the park and a meal, and when your new ball of fur is sleepy-have someone leash your dog and you can hold a bunny for sniffing. This of course you want to do once your bunny is used to your dog.

It takes time but it can be done and managed Most important is to observe both carefully for signs of stress and stop all activities when you are getting clear ‘I’m fed up’ or ‘I’m over excited’ or ‘I’m scared’ vibes

[Eva_M]

I was impressed too that she found her way back… we have been down that path only second time. She does have a chip but someone would have to take her to the vet to read the owner info. I will definitely get a tag with address and phone for her just in case. I learned to hold the leash tighter after yesterday.
To answer about Tara and Micha: Tara is double the size of Micha (karelian bear dog) and she’s being a little territorial wright now. Not really aggressive, just trying to keep Micha in one place (like an ornament ) but I’ve seen her do that before and she always calms down after a while. I think the two of them need to establish some order and I don’t want to get involved too much. When they go over the top I calm them down but that’s it. I’m careful about strictly separating their feeding and giving them both the same attention so I believe this won’t be much of an issue. Micha is not afraid of her as far as I can tell – she just drops on the floor when Tara comes showing ok, you’re the boss but I see she’s feeling more secure by the minute and she’s even trying to play with Tara.

And as for the energy thing you’re absolutely wright – I see that Micha is really excited when around Eva – she’s playful but her punching her nose in Eva’s but is not something that’s too appreciated I’m definitely keeping a close eye on her.

Anyways, I’m taking them all to our weekend house today and we’ll see how it goes when they are not confined in an apartment. I still have to keep Micha on a leash because I don’t trust her enough yet but we’ll take one step at a time.

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