Azithromax? Okay for bunnies? -UPDATE – loose stool or cecal – no appetite – HELP PLEASE

[MimzMum]

Sorry I didn’t add an update to my original post. I can’t get the forum to let me either reply to it or update the topic at all.

So Mimzy went to the vet today. Of course, while he’s there, no runny nose, no sneezing. >_< But she listened to his chest and claimed she could hear something in the lungs on his right side. So she took an xray. Nothing where she heard the sound, however, she had me look at it but I can't understand what she says is going on in there.

Something about little ‘donut’ shaped areas in his lungs that indicate some chronic inflammation of the bronchial tubes. I mentioned his earlier aspiration of water from his bottle about a week or so ago and she said that may have caused it, but more likely it’s just his constant nasal and respiratory irritation. She did not look at his molars, but said his incisors seem fine and that if they were uneven it woudl indicate trouble with the molars. I was too scatterbrained to argue that further. (they’d also had an emergency come in while I was there, so everything got confusing)

So he’s been prescribed azithromax for the next 7 days. I had to go to a regular pharmacy to get it. Has anyone had experience with this drug and can you tell me if there’s any danger in using it? I know I need to watch if he gets lethargic or stops eating, but I don’t have to worry about him just up and keeling over after a dose, do I? I’ve never used anythign that was specifically targeted at humans first before (that I know of.)

He’s also lost a small amount of weight, nothing significant. His gut looks fine to her. If this treatment doesn’t work, he’ll be back in for bloodwrok and then perhaps another set of head xrays which he’ll have to be unconscious for. SHe only does one surgery per month now though, so that would be some time mid-October.

*sigh* Poor bun. Had to put up with hubby’s driving again too, which tends to make ME wish I had no gag reflex. lolz…..  Mimzy also WOULD NOT sit in his litterbox in the carrier, which normally doesn’t bother him, and was squished between that and the carrier door all the way there, so I had to take the whole thing out at the vets and just let him slide around on the floor of the carrier all the way home. Weeweewee. >_<

Okay, that’s it for now, unless I remember more about the whole visit later, but that’s the basics. Opinions on the azithromax, please?

[Kax0r]

Zithromax commonly causes appetite loss and is still in the testing phase for rabbits, however, with mainly positive feedback.

[MimzMum]

Okay, this is not looking good.
I gave him his first dose at 6 PM. It’s 9 PM here now and I found some smelly smears on his hab floor, so I pulled him out to have a look. He had a large piece of either cecal or stool stuck to his bum, HE NEVER HAS THIS PROBLEM. He dropped a few bb’s while I was holding him trying to clean him up, and he’s full of attitude, but I think he may be very uncomfortable. His abdomen feels normal, but he won’t eat and he’s kind of huddled in his pen, breathing rather rapidly, whereas he was stretched out and relaxed after I gave him the medicine earlier.
I just force-fed some Benebac by rubbing it on his lips and front teeth and I think he got some down (about 1 gram is the dose they told me to give Fiver every other day) but he won’t eat canned pumpkin (not sure if it would hurt or help anyway – it seems to cause more trouble for him and Pip than it does help when I have gotten it into them) so what should I do? I’m going to call first thing in the morning, but it looks like this is going to be an all nighter for me.

Nothing much on the web about this reaction in rabbits. Can someone help me out here, please? This is totally atypical for Mimzy.

[Monkeybun]

One of the side effects is diarrhea, so I’d try keeping him hydrated well for starters.

here is an information sheet for pets when it is prescribed: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Rx_Info_Sheets/rx_azithromycin.pdf

[jerseygirl]

Azithromax is listed in the “Safe antibiotics for rabbits” table on Medirabbit. 30-50mg/kg once a day.

I also read possible loss of appetite. 

Could the messy poop be a reaction from the vet visit/ car trip?

[jerseygirl]

Also, is there sorbitol in this med?

[MimzMum]

I have both bottled and crock water for him. He was drinking some just a few minutes ago. (it’s 12 AM here now) He seems to like it refrigerator cold, I hope that won’t be too tough on his tum.

I’ve just never seen him have loose stool before. At all. This is not like when he had stasis, but there’s some stomach discomfort going with it, certainly. He’ll be loafing one minute, then hunched up and in indeterminate distress the next. (I’m going by the look in his eyes, if they’re kind of glazed over, he’s probably hurting.) I have probiotics and simethicone at the ready, but still. Poor little guy. (NOTE: he did munch a few strands of hay in the loo, but no poop, then had a willow treat where he ate all the leaves but left the branch, so he’s not starving himself…yet)

Jerz, car trips don’t unsettle his stomach like they do mine. As far as sorbitol, no idea, but I’ll wager there may be some as it has a lovely strawberry-banana scent to it.

I just don’t know if I want to risk killing off all his gut flora to get whatever is making him sneeze (which he’s still doing of course-I don’t expect it to stop right away) but I suppose we’ll find out what to do when I speak to the vet in the morning.
Long night ahead (pours a mug of coffee)…..

[Sarita]

I don’t have personal experience with this but a friend used this with success on her rabbit but her rabbit did have stomach cramps from this. Call the vet to see if she can decrease the dosage and ask about pain meds while taking this.

[MimzMum]

Thanks Sarita! Yeah, I was curious as if a lower dosage might be better for him. I don’t think he’s used to .9 ml all at once (and it’s only once a day, thank God), his other meds were a little less volume I think. With the exception of the chloramphenicol, which was a full 1 ml if I remember correctly.
I think I still have some metacam here, so at least I’ll have something to use for him if need be.
He’s only passing ‘mouse poo’ today, whereas he had normal sized stool last night. Hardly eating except for some dried willow leaves and a few carrot slivers (I know, not going to give many of those, too much sugar). He’d had some kale last night with his meds, but turned his nose up at the rest of it after his dose. I put in some green leaf lettuce and endive, two of his faves…no dice. (WAIT…caught him nibbling some just now…YAY!) He seems to be drinking at least, and peeing for now.
I offered a snip of dried carrot tops (small amount to keep form overloading his belly) and he still likes his timothy treats, but I don’t want him living on sweet stuff this week, I want him to eat some hay. I mixed his timothy with orchard, his second favorite and he’ll nibble, but that’s all.
He still seems lively periodically and he gives great protest to any kind of handling-typical, but my 6th sense is telling me he’s not comfy.
I also gave him some critical care this morning about 10. Couldn’t manage to get him to let me syringe more than 3 ml, if that, and it was watered down.
I may just get desperate enough to try opening a new can of pumpkin, just to see if he’ll eat it. But the idea of trying too many new things at once doesn’t sit well because I won’t know what’s upset him if he winds up mushy again.

UPDATE: Okay, the vet just called. She wants me to continue the dosage, the way it is, and if there’s no improvement on his stomach probs or he gets worse, she may knock him back down to baytril because according to her, Mimzy’s doc registered bronchitis on his chart, so he has to have something.
She said to go ahead and give him a little metacam if he is in pain, but we don’t want to use a lot of it. So I’m in agreement with that.
And apparently the azithromax doesn’t kill off the gut bacteria, it just causes stomach pain…but somehow I don’t quite agree with that having seen those mushy cecals. ARRGH. Bunnies health = frustration to the Nth degree.
Sorry for the rant. Mimz is just so important to me. And when he’s uncomfortable I get furious easily. Apologies all ’round.

[Lintini]

I hope he starts feeling better soon!!

[LittlePuffyTail]

Poor Mimzmy! Fell better baby!

[GrumpyBun]

Thinking of you and Mimz – hope he feels better soon.

[MimzMum]

Well so far it’s day three and he’s still having a small amount of moist poo, but his appetite was way better yesterday and we actually had normal sized poops in the litterbox almost all night. So I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks for the info sheet, MB, sorry I forgot to mention that I’d read it.

He seems a little tired today, so I’m thinking he might be a bit uncomfy, but don’t want to overdo the metacam. I think the benebac made a lot of difference for him though. Either that or he’s adjusted to the meds by now.
He had some ‘serial sneezing’ last night, but not as much as before and the goober output might just be decreasing a bit. Don’t want to jinx it though by posting that he’s better…with my luck…well…. >.<

Thanks for the vibes everyone! ^_^

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

{{{{Mimz}}}} (Both of you!)

What I did with Chuck who had lost a touch of weight during his illness was oats…a small pinch every couple of days-it REALLY worked. My vet was always impressed when we went in and weighed him-he gained that oz back and never lost another
Meds can upset their tummies-sounds like his is upset too {{Mimz}}

Oh I found this product, when I was looking around on Ebay for bunny stuff…it’s made in the UK but you could probably order it on ebay and it looks fantastic-kind of like a mix of benebac and critical care..It’s called fibreplex http://www.vetscriptions.co.uk/PROTEXINFIB15.html

Hope this helps! Keep us posted!!

[MimzMum]

Thanks K&K! Yeah, I’ve heard of that. It does sound interesting (the Fibreplex) but I’ll have to read a bit more about it before ordering. I just posted about Mimz not wanting his benebac tonight…ornery bugger!

He’s actually been craving the BB.com oat hay the last few days. I think it does wonders for keeping him regular.

I was shopping at Etsy the other day and met a lady who had a bun who looked just like Mimz. He’d had a tumor on his ear that her vet said would kill him ad sent him home to die and she cleared it up with apricot kernels after antibiotics actually almost killed this poor bun. I found this intriguing and wonder how this herbal medicine would work on other disease.
But this treatment is not allowed in our country, presumably because it actually works. I wonder if this azithromax doesn’t work, if that would be a treatment option I could look into for him at least for just general health maintenance? (she apparently kept him on it his whole life and he never had another illness.)
Has anyone here heard of it? (Having been a cancer patient, I have to wonder how effective it would be in humans as well?)

Sorry off on a toot. It’s late here and I’m beat.

[RabbitPam]

MM, my biggest concern unfortunately is the possibility of mixing treatments that will cause an adverse reaction that you will feel terrible about because you tried it. I know that many of the members here are medically trained, but the reason we have you go to your own vet first and foremost is because they are treating exactly what is wrong after diagnosis. No amount of internet information is a substitute for that. And my first thought when he had runny poos was “yep. That’s a drug side effect, or even the cure as it cleans out his system of whatever he is being treated for.” In other words, it’s uncomfortable, sure, but not an illness requiring further treatment. Just patience. Calling her is the right thing to do. But medicating him with your own choices, or trying this and that and overlapping what’s in him already, can be dangerous. I am not surprised that he is better after a few days. That’s the plan.
And MM, just because you haven’t heard of a treatment doesn’t mean that a vet is prescribing something that is going to kill your rabbit. She’d have lost her license long ago! Don’t let your panic override your good judgment and Do What the Doctor Tells You. Not more, not less. When you see him behaving abnormally, just call and say “is this a side effect, and what can I do to make him more comfortable?” Thus the Metacam. But jeez, forget the internet treatments from who-knows-who-this-person-is. I like the sound of your vet and I trust her.

[Sarita]

I really don’t see what an ear abscess has to do with bronchitis and it sounds like her vet was a quack anyway. Doing something like this is dangerous and who knows if what she is telling you is really the truth.

You need to let the vet treat Mimz and do exactly as she says.

I would ask the vet about this Fiberplex stuff as well or giving oats (especially if he has runny poos) before you start adding anything new to his diet. You really must be consistent with his diet.

[Dee]

I just wanted to say that I hope Mimz is doing better- I know how scary it is when you’re treating your rabbit for something and wondering if you’re doing the right thing and does the vet know what they’re doing and perhaps you should do something else… it’s enough to drive you crazy. I go through it whenever my buns get sick. It’s just that we love them so much- the thought of something going wrong with their treament is terrifying. You have gotten really good advice from everyone here. It does sound like your vet is knowledgable and especially if Mimz seems to be having less tummy upset, I bet you’re on the right track. {{{{healing vibes for Mimz}}}}

[jerseygirl]

Strangely, I have heard of this apricot kernal thing and cancer. I know ZERO about it though. One of my sisters used to drive a lady to her appts to recieve this treatment. She had secondaries by this stage and I don’t think there was much that could be done. I believe she went interstate then to live with a friend so I don’t know what happened to her.

Mimz, what day are you up to now with this med? Almost over? We’re here for you, sending lots of (((vibes))) that this helps Mimzy!

[jerseygirl]

*bump*
MM, how’s it going with Mimzy? Any improvements?

[MimzMum]

Sorry guys, realize I never updated this. It’s been a crazy week.
Mimzy had his last dose of meds on Saturday, so far so good. Do I think he’s cured? Maybe. We’ll just have to wait and see. There was some mild sneezing last night, but the temps also dropped here and we had snow by morning, so perhaps that was why.
No more snotty bunny for now, and I’m praying it stays that way.

Either way, if he goes bad again, since my regular vet has done all she can for him and now only works weekends, she has turned me over to her associate in the same building. I suppose she is getting a little frustrated, but then so am I and I had thought that she was planning on taking more xrays of him if need be, which I guess we do not need to now, obviously. In a sense I feel ‘handed off’, but don’t know what else to think. My doc feels that maybe another pair of eyes could see somethign she’s missed in case this medication has also failed us.

Jerz, thanks for letting me know you’d heard of the apricot kernels (which of course I wasn’t planning on getting or using as long as I have no solid info on them-although I did invite this lady to come to our board if she’d like as she is a rabbit advocate in the UK) and that they appear to even have use for people, although it does sound a little outside the realm of regular medicine. Personally, I was just wondering if anyone had ever heard of them besides me. I don’t use anything on my bunnies without my vet’s approval anyway, so anything I do find I take to her to be confirmed as helpful. I was really just looking to see if anyone here had heard of them.

Thank you everyone for keeping Mimz in your thoughts. I REALLY hope I don’t ever have to post that he’s blowing goobers again. The antibiotics nightmare I go through every time the buns have to use this stuff is enough to keep me from sleeping during the entire regimen waiting for something to happen one way or other. >.<

For now let’s just keep our fingers crossed that we got the little buggers that were making him sick.

[jerseygirl]

If it has had some impact but the dreaded snot returns, are you able to use this med again but for a longer course?

[MimzMum]

I think not. There was more medicine in the bottle as it was, but she insisted I don’t give it to him for more than the 7 days. Now that could be just this round or it could be altogether…but for the most part that’s where the discussion went to me bringing him to the other vet if he continues to have trouble.
So yeah…not entirely sure more azithromax would be good for him at this point. It may just be a one-shot antibiotic. :-/ I’m glad it worked, but it did disturb his gut like nothing else ever had, so that’s what had me so worried. He did firm up after that first day, but I wouldn’t want to see him go through that again. I’d had to give him metacam just to get him eating again the first day. His poor tum must’ve felt pretty bad.

[mrmac]

I am on Azithromycin just starting today and it has upst my stomach too, I know how he felt! Poor Mimzy, hope the little guy feels better soon!

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