are we unbonded??

[Cupcakesmom]

Hi everyone!

I recently posted on the forum about my 2 hottot boys and their bonding. They were doing really well and spent a lot of time together. They are not caged together during the day while my hubbs and I are at work and they are also not housed together at night. They would play together, snuggle, groom and eat meals together. They were really doing well. I could leave the room and trust that they would be ok. This was after weeks of spending time with them in a confined space together so they could get used to each other. Well, two nights ago,  I left the room they were playing together in and a few minutes later I could hear a scuffle. I ran in there and made the high pitched “boop” sound that usually works when they are doing something wrong. They stopped the fighting and just looked at me. I scooped Derby up and put him in Spike’s cage and put Spike in Derby’s. I settled them in for the night and hoped things would be better in the morning after they had time to cool off. There was no blood, but there was a ton of fur all over. The next morning, they ate breakfast together, then shortly after, they got in another scuffle and this time my loud “boop” didnt work. I had to grab Derby and break them apart. They were housed seperately for a day and half. I tried again this morning I got the same results. A scuffle, flying fur and scared bunnies. I’m wondering what your opnions are. Should I start over with the bonding or give them a few days? Should I put them together like I did before in a neutral area with me sitting there or should I do stress bonding? My heart is broken for my little boys! Any ideas or suggestions would really help.

 

Thanks everyone!

[MoveDiagonally]

It doesn’t sound like they are/were fully bonded. What stage of bonding are you at? Are you waiting to have time to finish their bond and/or what is the overall bonding plan that you have?

I would continue to do bonding sessions in a semi neutral area, if you’re at that stage. Stress bonding if aggression crops up. After they get along well enough in semi-neutral I would clean/sanitize the area you wish to house them, put together their joint home, and cement the bond. Cementing is where you have them together as they will be living together and supervise constantly. I sleep next to mine during cementing so I’ll wake up if something goes wrong. I use stress bonding if they fight and keep them together. After 24-48 hours of no fighting/intervention they should be alright to be together without constant supervision.

[Cupcakesmom]

I was hoping soon to be able to keep them together in one pen all the time. I hadnt gotten to that point because when i did try to keep them together at night, there was a lot of stomping and general disapproval. they were doing really well when they were out of their pens together when I was home. I didnt think they were ready to be together when i was out of the house or sleeping. i thought if they were doing so well together in their joint territory that i would eventually be able to keep them together at night, then eventually after that when i was out of the house completely. Each day i would cage swap so neither cage smelled exclusively like the other bunny. even when i first put them together in neutral territory, they never fought like they are now. they were curious of each other and since Derby is more timid than Spike, he would cower in the corner a little bit. since moving them to the living room that they share, they had been doing really well and Derby seemed to come out of his shell. then all of a sudden, the fighting started and it really scares me.

[tanlover14]

I just wanted to add – when you have arguments and scuffles between the two you do not want to separate right away. Separating gives them the thought process that if they fight they’ll get what they want, the other rabbit away from them and out of sight. Which is the exact opposite of what you’re trying to do.

You also have to sort of become “immune” to the fighting in a way. Fighting isn’t always a negative sign. Fur pulling and small scuffles can indicate that the boys are finally sorting out their hierarchy which is what needs to happen in order for them to become fully bonded. Of course, you don’t want the to get to the point where they are injuring each other. I typically bang something really loud around to freak them out and get them away from each other.

Stomping and general disapproval is very typical in bonding so I wouldn’t be concerned when they do that. It’s only when they are aggressively fighting that I would begin becoming concerned about bonding in a different direction or way to help move them along out of that phase.

I would take a day or two off to let everyone (and bun) calm down and then do some more dating. As MD said, stress bonding works wonderful and stress bonding is a great solution when they begin really scuffling. Scoop them both into a box and shake it around to freak them out a bit. Then put them back. Typically this helps the situation and when it doesn’t, right back in the box they go. LOL. It sounds like torture but the stress will help them learn to trust the other rabbit.

[Cupcakesmom]

OOOOps!! i did it wrong then!! I seperated them when they fought! ( i should probably explain my craziness when it comes to fighting….My first two bunnies were bonded, then one night got into a huge fight. I had to bring my Dizzie to the vet and she got 7 stitches in her belly. needless to say, the fighting really scares me.)
When I put the boys in their neutral bonding area, they do really well. There is no fighting or nipping…they are all lovey dovey! Do you think i should try putting them together in the living room again? (thats the room where they both live in seperate pens.) I could put a pot and spoon in the room too to make noise when/if they fight. How do i know that its aggressive fighting?? so far its only been fur pulling and running around like banchees. Derby had a little scratch on his nose, but it wasnt really bleeding, it was just red. i had given them a few days off, then started in the bonding room again yesterday. i make them eat meals together and give treats together. they were sharing their kale salad today and even took food from each others mouths. just from that, i cant imagine that they are so unfortunate!!

[Stickerbunny]

To break up fighting take a metal colander and a pair of gloves with you, if they start to fight, just stick the colander between them (gloves are so your hands don’t get bitten). You can also pet them if you start to notice aggression and that can stem it, if you pet them both. It sounds like they are being territorial, so slowly introducing something like a litter box into neutral may help to sort it out without fighting in such a large area like the living room where it’ll be hard to catch them to separate.

[Zombie-Sue]

If it’s a minor scuffle, sometimes a squirt bottle gets them to stop lol

[MoveDiagonally]

If it’s a minor scuffle, sometimes a squirt bottle gets them to stop lol

This can definitely help. I think sometimes it has to be timed right. I give them enough time to maybe work it out and then squirt them if they continue. Sometimes if I waited too long they were too “zoned” on fighting and it didn’t help. I figured out the “right” time to spray them through trial and error.

[Cupcakesmom]

well, i figured out what i think was making Spike so sassy! he has an owie on his back! i was petting him today and felt a lump, sp i examined it. there is a scab forming, but there was never any blood. he must have gotten hurt and turned on Derby. I put them together in the living room last night and they did ok. spike chased Derby a little, but they never faught. i used a pot and wooden spoon to startle them when they were chasing. that seemed to do the trick! hopefully with some time, they will be ok again.

[tanlover14]

Rather than putting myself into the situation at all, I like to bang around metal pots and pans with a big spoon or really anything that makes a lot of noise and is startling to them. It typically gets them focused off from each other and on to something else.. but without having to break them up or have them go their separate ways. Because they’re still on edge, they’ll typically kind of go around a bit before trying anything again… and if they do, I just start banging like crazy again. LOL!

[Cupcakesmom]

Thank you so much to all of you for helping me! the boys are doing a lot better! they chase each other here and there, but there is no more fighting at all. last night they were in the litterbox together and they eat all of the meals together. i had them out together for about 7 hours yesterday and there were no issues. derby is really starting to come out of his shell and trust me and Spike even more. they are a joy to watch!
i think this weekend i am going to try keeping them together for the whole time, without seperating to sleep, etc. what are your suggestions as to what i do while i am at work? (i just have to work saturday until noon). i was thinking that i would still keep them in the same cage, but shut the door between them so they can be together, but not get into any mischief while i am gone. do any of you have any suggestions?

[tanlover14]

Hey Cupcake – I messaged you so I’m not going to bother responding here!

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