Anybody experienced increased frustration during pre-bonding?

[DanaNM]

Hi guys, would love some input from the experienced bonders out there.

Has anyone noticed an up-tick in frustrated behaviors with pre-bonding over time, as opposed to improving over time? 

I ask because Bun Jovi has taken to trying to dig obsessively in the corner of his condo (where it is tiled), even when he has free-run of part of the apartment. He’ll even scrape the floor with his teeth, and get no-where… since it’s tiles.

He will also grab the condo bars in his teeth and tug on them, but oddly he does this on walls that aren’t even blocking him in, when the doors are open?? I have been joking that he is a velociraptor checking all the fencing for weakness, but he isn’t doing a great job at it, because he leaves the x-pen alone! He seems content otherwise (so many flops!).

I might make him a diggy box to see if that helps, but it’s weird because he has a litter box that would be great for digging in, and he ignores it. 

He started doing this after the most recent side-swap, so I think he genuinely just wants to be on the other side. 

It doesn’t seem directed at Bertha, because he isn’t marking anywhere, and he and Bertha aren’t “running the fence” or showing any signs of agitation towards each other. 

They both just seem grumpy that they can’t run the whole apartment! 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[jerseygirl]

He started doing this after the most recent side-swap, so I think he genuinely just wants to be on the other side.

They both just seem grumpy that they can’t run the whole apartment! 

You know, sometimes it does seem like it is about them coveting the real estate more then anything. The grass is greener…and all that. lol

Ive actually had a couple of bonds happen when I simply opened access to each others enclosures. This occured with my already bonded girls when they accepted a boy. It also happened with a friends rabbits I had with me. They were set up side by side in pens. From memory, the females ventured into the males area first. With the soon-to-be trio, the girls were so interested in the space Id closed off from them, that they let the boy scoot past and go explore the girls area. They were so pre-occupied investigating. I think I did this a few times until they were more used to each other, then just took the pen away and they co-habited in the whole room.

With my friends rabbits, I can’t remember who ventured into which area first but they were both of a sweet nature and it all went smoothly. I spend a few hours in there keeping an eye on them. Then made the 2 pens into one big pen which they shared for the rest of their stay. I think I took them on a short ride the next day just to see how they’d do and cement bond a bit further, I suppose.

It’s not the way to go about bonding for everybun, but there are some that are just chilled out and it can happen this easily.

[Sirius&Luna]

I’m not an especially experienced bonder, but both Luna and Atlas do the chewing on the bars thing – in their case it seems to be when they can see that the other bunny is getting running around time and they’re not. Now I have Atlas and Nimbus living next door to each other, and Atlas immediately starts chewing on the bars when he can see Nimbus isn’t in there.

In Bun Jovi’s case, maybe since he’s relatively new, he felt more secure on the other side? And now he’s in another new place he doesn’t like it? Hopefully with a bit more swapping it will calm down.

P.S. – glad Bun Jovi stuck!

[DanaNM]

Wow! That’s really interesting and cool! Not sure mine are quite that chilled out… but that’s awesome! Did this happen after a while of bonding or pre-bonding?  Did you then supervise them for a couple days to make sure all was good?

I do think that one “side” is better than the other in my case, just out of necessity with my apartment layout. One side is bigger, and has the kitchen and table/chairs, so it’s where we spend most of our time. The other is smaller and has the bed, so we don’t spend much time on that side unless we’re sleeping. Of course I’ve been making sure to spend snuggle time with both buns, but for most day to day activities we are on the larger side.  

I swapped em last night, and BJ seemed much happier (so many zoomies!) but he did start digging in some other areas this morning (in the corner of his condo, and the opposite corner of the room, so maybe he is just a digger! I’m going to make him a digging box and see where that leads. It’s interesting, Bunston used to obsess over certain spots, and no Bun Jovi has found those same spots and picked right up where he left off. 

And Bertha picked up rattling the pen on the “worse” side, but also had a case of the zoomies this morning, so who the heck knows! 

I’ve been swapping them every two days to minimize handling, but I think I will start swapping them daily. That way no bun has to be on the “bad” side for too long. 

I do really think they are more interested in expanding their space more than “getting at” the other bunny, but also don’t want to rush them too much. 

I’ve always wanted to try the washing machine stress method, so we might give that a go this weekend, as I need to do laundry anyway!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

Yes that sounds very similar!  In my case they both get run around time at the same time, but one area is a bit larger, and Bertha is used to having the whole place to herself. 

That bar chewing though… we joke that it’s like a prisoner rattling their cup on the bars. (I guess that’s kind of a dark joke, ha). We had a friend caring for them once, who’s first language is Portuguese. Her english is amazing, but she used the word “jail” for cage one time, and it stuck with us. She would say “I put the bunnies back in their jail…..” 

And yes, we just couldn’t call him anything other than Bun Jovi! I think since it has been his name for his whole 8 year life… plus it suits him well.  He is quite the character! 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[jerseygirl]

Posted By DanaNM on 1/19/2018 2:11 PM

Wow! That’s really interesting and cool! Not sure mine are quite that chilled out… but that’s awesome! Did this happen after a while of bonding or pre-bonding?  Did you then supervise them for a couple days to make sure all was good?

I do think that one “side” is better than the other in my case, just out of necessity with my apartment layout. One side is bigger, and has the kitchen and table/chairs, so it’s where we spend most of our time. The other is smaller and has the bed, so we don’t spend much time on that side unless we’re sleeping. Of course I’ve been making sure to spend snuggle time with both buns, but for most day to day activities we are on the larger side.  

I swapped em last night, and BJ seemed much happier (so many zoomies!) but he did start digging in some other areas this morning (in the corner of his condo, and the opposite corner of the room, so maybe he is just a digger! I’m going to make him a digging box and see where that leads. It’s interesting, Bunston used to obsess over certain spots, and no Bun Jovi has found those same spots and picked right up where he left off. 

And Bertha picked up rattling the pen on the “worse” side, but also had a case of the zoomies this morning, so who the heck knows! 

I’ve been swapping them every two days to minimize handling, but I think I will start swapping them daily. That way no bun has to be on the “bad” side for too long. 

I do really think they are more interested in expanding their space more than “getting at” the other bunny, but also don’t want to rush them too much. 

I’ve always wanted to try the washing machine stress method, so we might give that a go this weekend, as I need to do laundry anyway!

Sometimes I think it’s what ever area they can’t get too is the one they want to be in. 

I probably led you astray with my post about the easier bonds. It was over 5 years ago and I don’t recall all details. I had to find my old thread about the trio to refresh my memory. I did allow them time together in the hallway before I set up Goosey in the girls room. I don’t think I did it a lot though. I usually gave a branch of willow and they’d all be sharing that. I seem to remember letting them into that space afterward too, so I suppose that was further bonding in neutral ground. I think I only had Gman set up in the girls room for a week before I opened up the pen for them to interact in that room. 

With the other pair I mentioned, the owner may have done pre bonding. In that case, my place was more neutral for them so there may have been less territorial behaviour due to that? I really feel it was done to the personality of those two though.

I do take a more relaxed approach to bonding then I did when Jersey and Rumball met. Back then, I did side by side pens, bathtub dates then neutral pen. It took a month of daily work with them.

Other times I’ve not done too much of the pre-bonding. BUT many have been other peoples rabbits. So they are coming into neutral territory and neutral person as they don’t have an individual bond with me. I really think that has been the key why those bonds came about fairly quickly.  

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