Any other Pine shaving concerns?

[jerseygirl]

Ok, I just have advised member Carrot Lane Bunny that pine shaving are not recommended for rabbits.  I’m aware that the phenols are thought to be toxic.  So this is just from ingesting them? 

I use a grated litter box so the buns don’t actually come into contact with the litter.  I currently use a safe pellet wood litter but I am able to get shavings and possibly sawdust from the workplace. (All untreated wood).  I was going to give it a try & think it would be safe as they can’t eat it.  Would that be right or are there other concerns regarding shavings?   Also, as I’ve never used wood shavings before.  How are they for absorbing urine and odour? 

[Adalaide]

I’ve heard that since they are considered aromatic woods that they will also release those chemicals into the air. Smells great to us but is bad for buns and deadly to most really little rodents due to breathing problems. Again, the breathing problems makes me think it’s a being near it thing. Of course, I could be totally off base.

[jerseygirl]

No, not at all. That does make sense. Especially when it’s fresh shavings.

[RabbitPam]

Hi, Jersey,

I know you like information so I found this great article on HRS and thought it was worth copying here: 

http://www.rabbit.org/care/shavings.htmlHere’s the link, too.

The Dangers of Softwood Shavings
George Flentke, Ph.D.
 
The use of pine and cedar as litter for house rabbits should be avoided. Other superior litters, such as recycled paper and aspen shavings are available and you should steer potential adopters and those who already have rabbits to these safer alternatives. There are two major concerns with the use of cedar and pineshavings as litter. The first is the documented alterations in the liver’s specialized tools, called enzymes, that can alter your rabbit’s ability to handle standard drugs that your vet will use in the treatment of your pet. The second is the relatively poorly characterized cancer risk.

When you open a container of pine or cedar shavings you will instantly smell the “aromatic” nature of the litter. That smell is where the the problem lies. The odor is from the natural volatile chemicals in the wood called phenols. Thus one of your best detection methods for determining an unknown bag of shavings is your own nose! This odor, and the phenols that cause it, are not found to the same amount in hardwood shavings, thus hardwood shavings, aspen being one of the most common, are considered a much safer litter material and can be recommended for rabbits and other small animals.

The phenols in the softwood (pine and cedar) shavings causes changes in the liver’s enzymes. Your rabbit’s liver tries to remove the phenols by producing more of certain enzymes that destroy these chemicals; this is a natural part of you and your rabbit’s defense against enviromental toxins. Our bodies always produces a low constant level of these protective agents; the problem occurs when constant exposure to pine phenols causes the rabbits to produce substantially larger quantities.

The most characterized and potentially the most troublesome problem is that these enzymes are also used to remove drugs. Remember that removing drugs is just as important as their administration; we want the drugs to have the desired effects and then go away when we no longer need them, so knowing exactly how long they will be around is an important part of every drug’s action. If these enzymes are elevated, then the time a drug will be in the body and have the desired effect is much less than predicted. Some of the drugs affected are xylazine and ketamine, the most popular injectable anesthesias. Other important drugs include dexamethasone, theophylline and all of the opioid painkillers, such as butorphanol, that are commonly used for bunnies. In rodents, for example, constant exposure to phenol-containing litters reduced drug effectiveness by greater that 40%. This is the main objection to softwood litters. We as caretakers are always limited in what safe drugs we can use on rabbits, and decreasing their safety further by making them unpredicatable should be avoided if at all possible.

The second objection to softwood shavings exposure as a cancer risk is less concrete. Epidemological studies in humans point to increase risks in people who work in saw mills, but the issue of volatile phenol involvement is not clear. Cedar shavings have caused increased risk for cancer in certain rodents, but in many ways this work was skewed by the nature of the experiment. Thus the evidence is, at best, only suggestive. Combined with the other health difficulties though, we should seriously question the use of pine and cedar in any litter for the pet industry.

As a side issue, for those on the west coast, Ponderosa pine needles have been mentioned as alternative litter; this should be avoided at all costs. The material has caused spontaneous abortions in cattle and other domestic species and caused other hormonal disturbances.

 

[3crazybuns]

YIKES!!! You know what I just thought about, was that Pet store that Oliver came from, they use pine, but its the shavings! I noticed him sneezing the day he came home, and and a few times the day after, but he’s fine now, and the vet says he’s “healthy as a horse!” I love the Equine Fresh, it doesn’t smell, its not dusty, and he absorbs the odors and urine really, really good!!! I clean boxes every other day.

[jerseygirl]

Thanks Pam! lol I also read something similar from another source, so my question is answered. Stay away from pine shavings altogether.
Aside: interesting about hormone imbalances at end or article… wow!

[KytKattin]

3crazybuns, while equine fresh is okay for rabbits, there is still much debate on weather it is safe for rats and other small rodents. Kiln drying does not remove all of the phenols no matter what the company claims, and most small animals have their entire cage floor lined with the stuff. Rabbits have it easier because they obviously aren’t breathing it in all the time.

[RabbitPam]

You know what I don’t understand is why the Feline and Equine Pine pellets, once dissolved, don’t emit the phenols after soaking up the urine and turning to powder. Sammy loves her Feline Pine pellets, she won’t use anything else now, and I like it too. But I still am a wee bit nervous about using pine at all.

[BinkyBunny]

kytkattin – This is the first I have heard about all phenols not being removed during the drying and compression process. I would like to know more about this. I use Aspen not Pine, but I do know there a many here that use pelleted pine and do you have more information to offer about this? We definitely want to stay on to of anything that could be potentially harmful.

[RabbitPam]

Edited: BB, I could try the Aspen instead if Sammy will tolerate it. I think it’s sold in two pet stores near me. (Of course, someone just gave me a huge bag of Feline Pine that her kitty rejected.)

I’m back from a pet store run. Found shavings only in one but both in the 2nd so have bought a bag of Aspen Supreme Pellets. If it’s better for her and she’ll go for it, I will give it a try this week.

[KytKattin]

There was a discussion on the rat forum I was on, and not all kiln dried pine is dried the same. If you can still smell pine then it is not properly dried; it is still releasing phenols. As I said, this is not as dangerous to most rabbits as it is to rats, especially those who literally live in it 24/7. Some people who used kiln dried pine had serious problems with their rats in the form of respiratory problems. While this is common for rats anyways, it seemed to be aggravated by the kiln dried pine. I am aware that other factors could have affected the rats (be it other things in the house, a Glade Plug In, cleaners, some one’s perfume, a smoker, ect), but it was still a common problem. I don’t think that it is nearly as bad with pellets, but I do suggest that those who use it give it a good whiff to make sure they don’t smell any pine, and if they do to use something else.

[RabbitPam]

Does the Aspen have a woody smell to it? The ones I just tried do (nice though) and so far Sammy has not gone into her cage all day. Argh. I will not give up on this too soon however.
The Feline Pine does smell like wood too, but i have a super sensitive nose.

[KytKattin]

Pam I think then that you would be one of the best people to judge if bedding releases phenols because I’m sure your bunny has a super sensitive nose too! Aspen does have a smell to it, but it is generally believed to be safe for some reason. If someone could tell me why that is I would love to know!

[3crazybuns]

hummm… Well I know I’ve tried Aspen before, but Oreo just seems to be so picky, and really prefers his Equine Fresh. When you first open the bag and I dump it into my bin I can smell it, but I never smell it in the boxes. I don’t spray mine down like you would when you put it in a stall for a horse either… wonder if that would make a difference? I wonder if he would use aspen if I mixed it with the Equine Fresh? I just can’t get over $6.00 for 40 lbs of it though!

[jerseygirl]

The soft wood phenols are supposedly volatile so release the aroma readily. Perhaps the aspen phenols are less volatile than pine? I wonder if they add a fragrance to the aspen? Phenols are present in most organic things – foods etc so I’m not sure why the pine & cedar ones are particularly bad – just that they’re maybe more volatile is all I can think of. Just guessing – maybe the aroma in aspen is contained in an oil found in the plant????

[BinkyBunny]

Aspen has a woody smell similar to pine.

Kytkattin – Thanks for the info – I know you were discussing it regards to issues with rats, and I know with rabbits, the phenols can cause liver issues, but as far as the pelleted kind – I have not seen anything about it being harmful to rabbits, so I want to be careful not to scare bunny people, yet of course, still get info about it  - so I would have to research it more unless you have some resources. I don’t. I only have resources that say pelleted versions are okay – like
http://www.rabbit.org/journal/1/liver-disease.html (scroll down)

“Compressed sawdust pellets – inexpensive, highly absorbent litters used in many foster homes. They are made from softwood or hardwood sawdust, but they are not toxic because the phenolic compounds are removed during their manufacture. Their wood composition helps control bacterial growth and odors. Wood stove fuel pellets and Feline Pine are two examples of this product.”

Both of these products still smell like wood. Does anyone know if phenols are only what create a scent? Could the scent be still there though without them? This is very interesting!

[RabbitPam]

Posted By BinkyBunny on 05/26/2009 11:54 PM

“Compressed sawdust pellets – inexpensive, highly absorbent litters used in many foster homes. They are made from softwood or hardwood sawdust, but they are not toxic because the phenolic compounds are removed during their manufacture. Their wood composition helps control bacterial growth and odors. Wood stove fuel pellets and Feline Pine are two examples of this product.”

Thanks for this info, BB. I feel better about my Feline Pine pellets, although I am glad to say that Sammy has taken well to the Aspen, so I will use it anyway, but I know the FP is an option still. There are some adoption statiions in my local pet stores, so if I decide to change permanently to the Aspen (I can buy it just a block away) than I could donate my FP bags to these rescues for their cats.

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