Another stickypoo butt!!

[vanessa.b]

Have read all the previous info on stickypoobutts but am still struggling with 5month old dwarf lop. He and his mini lionhead friend are on minimal pellets (Burgess dwarf/junior excel), mases of two types of hay (meadow and timothy) and dried herbs/plants. All fresh greens have been stopped and they are on Avipro probiotic in their water on the advice of a vet but this has made no difference.  Am reluctant to cut out the pellets completely as they are always hungry for these and attempts to get them on a lower protein pellet has failed. Barney the lop is the most prolific pooer I have ever come across, the amount of regular poos he produces is phenomenal. Could he be producing too many softies to cope with? Could his gut be in overdrive? He was fine when we first had him ( at 11 weeks) and was eating greens and the Burgess with no probs. Strangely Herbie the lionhead arrived with the occasional sticky poo but is now fine – I suspect a no fresh green diet suits him but this is an issue when they cohabit to feed them differently. Barney was put on oral antibiotics for a time – could this have put him off eating his poos? Any advice would be of help, he is fine with my daughter but attacks me (very territorial in the hutch)if I try to clean up the squashed squits as they are affectionately known. Would love to get his tum back to normal, they are my babes even tho Barney will never be my friend, as I would hate this to be an ongoing problem. 

[Scarlet_Rose]

A bum tummy for a rabbit can happen not just from an imbalance in the gut but also from stress. You say that they are in a hutch, is it outside near any other neighborhood animals? It sounds like you’re doing great with the probiotics in the water and all, but there may be an undelying cause.  Have you had their fecal matter tested by a vet for any abnormal bacteria? Also bacteria and whatnot can be ingested as they do transfer onto vegetables from the soil and natural fertilizers like cow manure. Do you feed your bun and veggies from a garden?

I am very sorry to hear about the aggression, but your bun seems to be super-territorial which makes me think that he has either felt threatened and so has become aggressive towards you or has become hormonal.  Take it slow, don’t let him intimidate you and just talk to him calmly and just approach gently but give him his distance so you do not get hurt. It’s a long process to deal with an aggressive bunny and there is a good article here:

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/2-9/rebel-with-paws.html

[vanessa.b]

Thanks for replying. Buns are out in a hutch but they have daily access to a large run or a gallop in the conservatory in bad weather. They no longer go out on the grass as we do have wild rabbits in the garden  at the moment. You may be right that sress could be a factor tho they appear to be happy and are well bonded. Certainly they have become more laid back since castration a month ago – guess Barney has not forgiven me for that either. He is better with me – no longer attacks for no reason – I am just careful when touching his hay /straw etc. They do eat a lot of straw straw, could this be a problem? I think it might be a good idea to get his poo analysed so will speak to the vet about that . They have had a course of Panacur since the poops started so perhaps hs tum has been bombarded with too many things.

[Lucy]

i didn’t know that bunnies could eat straw- like the yellow stuff that horses eat? That might be the problem…hopefully some of the more experienced rabbit owners will be able to give you an answer.

[osprey]

Have these bunnies been checked for Coccidia?   This is a common parasite for rabbits who live out doors, and one of the symptoms of an infection is gloppy, sticky poops.  The test involves gathering some poops and having a vet do a fecal float test on them.  When we get in new bunnies that have spent time as strays, they often have this parasite.  The treatment is a course of antibiotics.

 

[vanessa.b]

They do eat a lot of straw but it is a good quality barley straw so I am sure this is not a problem, it as sold as being edible. I will get the poo looked by the vet but both buns have been treated with antibiotics for Coccidia but to be fair they didn’t drink much of the water with the antiobiotic in.
The buns have spent most of the day in the house today so I have had a constant watch on Barney. He just doesn’t seem to want to eat the caecotrophes he produces of which there is a large amount. If he produces any in the night he must eat them but during the day he doesn’t want to know. Is he not hungry enough to want to eat them or do the just not taste good enough! Thankfully they do not stick to him as they drop away like the dry poos but this means constant collection!

[Scarlet_Rose]

No problem! = : ) How long ago were your bunnies castrated? It can take a while for the hormones to stop raging, but from the sound of it, they seem to have tapered off. I know this is a funny question, but how much protein is in their diet? If a bunny produces too many cecotropes (often from too much protein inthe diet) they have an over-abundance and so will not eat them all.

Second, are you feeding your bun barley hay or barley straw? There actually is a difference and the protein content is slightly higher in the barley hay than the usual timothy that most of us use, the barley straw however has a lower protein content.  There is a great chart and info on all you needed to know about hay on the HRS web site here:

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-3/fiber.html

Also, is your rabbit overweight at all? It really sounds like a combination of factors and stress just might be adding to it.  A neighborhood or stray cat, fox, dog, predatory bird etc. can get a bunny worked into a panic and tip the balance of their whole system.  What I’ve used in the past and still do is Bach’s Rescue Remedy flower essence and place a few drops in the water.  It calms my two down and when I am about to cut nails, I’ll administer a few drops straight from the dropper into their mouth, give a massage for a bit and they are literal bunny-fur puddles.

I hope this helps!

[BinkyBunny]

Out of curiosity did his poos get worse when he was on antibiotics?  What’s the fiber percentage of the pellets and are they timothy based?

[vanessa.b]

Hi, Thanks for the input. I think the pellets may be at the root of the problem, they are 16% fibre and 16% protein and I am not sure if they are timothy based, the label doesn’t specify. I bought these as they are sold as for young and dwarf rabbits. I tried to swap them onto the adult pellet, with less protein by the same manufacturer but the picky little things wouldn’t touch them. I have just received another brand today so I am going to try and get them onto these, they are 21% fibre and 13% protein. I am reluctant to stop the pellets altogether as they are always really hungry for them. I hope they are so hungry they will try the new ones.

As far as the straw goes we are using barley straw as bedding but they do eat some of this. They are on unlimited timothy and meadow hay. I don’t think the antibiotics changed the amount of poos at all. I will certainly look at the Bach flower remedies, and am about to speak to the vet to get the poo tested.

I just wish I could make things right.

[Gravehearted]

hi Vanessa,

My guess is the pellets are alfalfa based, since they’re much more commonly available. It’s always a good idea when switching pellets to slowly transition over a few weeks. Since buns can be picky and refuse to eat the new ones and cause a shock to the system. Let us know how it’s going.

[Scarlet_Rose]

I’d like to give my 2 cents here and that of many bunny-savvy vets that I have spoken to, bunny pellets are not really necessary, they just ensure that your rabbit receives any nutirents they might otherwise miss.  They were created for stock rabbits and breeding purposes so as to avoid high cost and maintenance of fresh veggies, plus to pack the pounds on ones bred for food. (Sorry if this breaches a subject that is unaccepable Binkybunny, I noticed the disclaimer at the top of your web page and do not condone such practices and am not opening it up as a topic for discussion.)  Ideally a bunny should get multiple vegetables, unlimited hay and no pellets. 

I actually use pellets like a treat. My two get a tablespoon each in the morning and that is it.  Then they get their variety of fresh veggies and unlimited hay. I liken the behavior to an adult who has a choice to munch on a bag of carrots or potato chips and potato chips are like the bunny pellets. Let me also say that I know that Oxbow puts out a great product (It’s what I use) and really it is up to you to ultimately decide whether you wish to feed pellets or not, especially if weight is an issue.  They have their benefits. 

I also want to caution you that it sounds like your bunnies have trained you well to only feed them the pellets that aren’t really good for an adult rabbit and so snub what they really should be eating.  It’s quite common for us bunny slaves here.  And the pellets should be gradually switched so start at about 1/4 of the new stuff with 3/4 of the old, do this for one week, then mix the old & new food 1/2 & 1/2 for 1 week, then mix 3/4 of the new food with 1/4 of the old food for 1 week, and for the 4th week you can feed just the new food without mixing it with the old. If they snub the pellets, just leave them there in the cage. Leave them until your usual cleaning as the idea here is not to offer fresh ones all the time and waste food & $.  Do not give in to their bunny version of a child pouting their lips and having a tantrum. You are the one that needs to watch out for their health and offer them what nutrionally is best for them and their health.

[MooBunnay]

My recently adopted Grace does the same thing when I offer her the Oxbow timothy based plain pellets.  The reason being that her previous owner was giving her these very sugary, full of corn and seeds and alfalfa based pellets.  All my other buns LOVE their Oxbow pellets, but Grace either steps on them, poos on them, or recently, she did a quick pee on top of the pile just to make it quite clear to me how she felt about her new diet! SO if your buns are giving you the bum treatment for feed them a healthier diet, have no fear, we’re in it together!

[BinkyBunny]

Scarlet Rose is right on! So stick with it Vanessa. My bunnies wanted nothing to do with the Timothy based pellet when I first switched them over (I also use Oxbow). And for the first week, they would eat only their pellets out of the combined mixture of their pellets and the new pellet, but I didn’t give up, and I kept following the directions,and now they eagerly look forward to their healthy pellet. It’s important to follow the directions that Scarlet gave because switching everything over too fast can also cause digestive upsets.

[vanessa.b]

Hi,
Thanks for the input on swapping pellets, the buns are eating the new pellets but after they have gobbled all the others – so that is a breakthrough as they will at least eat them. However these pellets are (also?) alfalfa based but they do not have any cereal and also contain several herbs and plants. So big question is whether I carry on with these as they are much higher in fibre and have much less protein than the current Excel make. I am trying a German brand – Bunny Green Dream – is there anybody out there who has any feedback on this brand? I did try the Oxbow initially before the Excel but they were not touched at all, I wonder if I should try them again? More expense – good job hubby doesn’t know.

There is still no way that Barney will eat his softies during the day – just sniffs them and discards them. Interestingly they always dry up at 4pm regular as clockwork. I did have him back at the vets last week but they are not willing to test his poos yet and suggested that I put Barney and his buddy on hay only for 14days. I can see the logic in this but my babes are still growing and I know they will be so hungry on hay only. It seems too cruel at the moment. Don’t really know what to do for the best paticularly as we are on holiday soon and my Mum is coming to house/rabbit/cat sit. I had hoped Barney’s tum would have settled down but it looks as though it is not to be. Guess my Mum will be on regular poo collection too!

I think I will try and get them off the Excel and onto the Bunny Green stuff and then try the Oxbow again later. Hopefully they may find it more to their liking then. This is assuming the pellets are at fault, I can’t see that the dried herbs (plantain, clover, parsley, marigold, dandelion etc) could be the problem – or does anyone know differently?

One good thing is that Barney is a lot less agressive with me – I think the hormones have just about disappeared. I still hold my breath when he sniffs my hand but there has been no more unprovoked attacks so really hope this continues. He is very territorial still in his hutch with me but I can now take steps to avoid being attacked – my wedding ring finger is scarred for life! Both buns have become a lot more affectionate over the last few days and they are a joy to be with. Just wish I could sort the tum out!

[BinkyBunny]

If they are under 7 months, then alfalfa hay and pellets are okay, but alfalfa can be too rich as reach adulthood. The fact that you are switching from the one with the nuts and stuff in it to a healthier pellet, higher fiber pellet is very good, and that may really help. Note that an imbalance can take up to a month to clear up, and you should start to see gradual improvement within that time.
If not, then you may need to cut back on the pellets. How old are they again?

When they are ready to gradually switch to Timothy, they won’t like it. Just be strong, they won’t starve themselves, and yes they will eat just the alfalfa in the begiinning and leave the Timothy. But they will get hungry enough to eventually eat the Timothy. Just like what they are doing now with the new brand.

[vanessa.b]

Hi there,
The buns are 5 1/2 months old so they are still young and growing hence I do not fancy the hay only option. We have started to introduce some fresh green stuff again as cutting this out has made no difference and when we got them they were eating this quite happily. We are gradually cutting down on the original pellet ( they prefer this over fresh greens) and giving more of the other which they will eat albeit last. I suspect Barney may always have a sensitive tum and as I said earlier he produces a vast amount of poo, to much for him I think to want to be bothered with.
Thanks everyone for the advice, it is great to be able to discuss problems with others.

[Author]

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