Again with Jerseys fecals. Update

[jerseygirl]

For the last 3 days Jersey has been producing weird fecal droppings. I mean, hers are never normal but I haven’t seen them this bad for a while. The strung together with undigested grass or hay (and likely some hair). Some inch long poops. Lots of really small ones too.  None have been the normal round shape.  I first really paid attention when a few nights back she didn’t go crazy for her 1/2 brussel sprout. Her appetite has been good -it was just a bit slow that night. 

I’m getting worried about her heading to more of a gut slowdown & festering bad gut bacteria.  I’m wondering how else I can up her fibre?  She is eating hay but I can’t force feed her more.  There’s been mention of pumpkin as a good GI aid. I’ve never seen canned pumpkin here, so would cooked and chilled pumpkin be ok? Can they eat it raw even?  What about criti care – it  has good fibre content right? I’m thinking I should get some and give it as a preventative…

Edit: I might try her with some chopped steamed hay and see if it improves things. I’m not entirely sure it’s lack of fibre that is cause but if I can get some into her and see a difference, then at least I’ll know.

[Monkeybun]

Cooked and chilled pumpkin should be fine, raw pumpkin too from what I’m reading.

[Karla]

Can you get a hold of dry papaya? I have used that a lot when they had stringy poop.

Also, I had great succes in giving Jack fibre supplements from the supermarket (the ones you can buy to sprinkle on top of your yoghurt).

Otherwise, I think you should get Benebac or Fibreplex from your vet. It is not prescriptive and it works really well – and tastes yummy!

I hope Jersey gets better soon!!

[jerseygirl]

Ta, she’s not sick – she is just not normal in this department. It’s been a long term thing but currently it’s worsened. So I guess I’m looking to be proactive. Do you find the dried papaya works? I can get it but have always avoided it because of the added sugar. I’m not totally sold on the papaya and pineapple enzyme thing but I would like to hear if it works.

[Karla]

I find that it does, but I have to admit that I haven’t been paying much attention to how much they are allowed to get, so they have been getting them in big doses when I have felt it necessary.

If you are not too happy about the papaya, then really go for the FibrePlex. This is the description:
“Fibreplex for rabbits and small pets provides palatable, easy to administer extra dietary fibre to encourage normal hind gut function.

Includes beneficial microorganisms to rapidly populate the gastrointestinal tract and prebiotics to synergistically enhance the growth and colonisation of beneficial microorganisms.

The prebiotic Preplex combines multi-sources of prebiotic to ensure various degrees of selectively fermentable sources of food for beneficial microorganisms within the gut. ”

[jerseygirl]

I remember reading about Fibreplex when you first mentioned a while back. This is what I was hoping the Criti-care could offer as that’s more available to me. It does contain the beneficial bacteria too. So I assume it’s similar to the prebiotic that Fibreplex has. I really don’t know how this “good bacteria” is viable in these products. Even in human foods. I mean some products contain “live cultures” but what of these others? Something to look into I guess.

[Sarita]

Katnip is trying some kind of treatment with Schroeder that you should ask her about – she is treating her for the “cow poop” stuff and it something that Dana Krempels recommended to her. I’ll have to look and see if I can find what it is or PM her too.

[jerseygirl]

Thanks Sarita. I contacted Katnip a while back on that. I believe she is giving lactulose (osmotic laxative) and possibly medicinal mineral oil.

[RabbitPam]

I would try the cubed or chilled pumpkin, room temperature and maybe put it in the blender so it’s like apple sauce. If she likes it, she’ll eat it. If not, could use a syringe of slushy of that or a slushy of ground hay/fiberous pellets.

But frankly, Jersey, you might want a visit to the vet. I know we always say that, but if it’s a germ that needs to be killed and out of her system, all of this won’t help much. Gather up some of the weird poos and bring a little bag of a present to your vet to help her diagnose immediately instead of making a second trip. Might even take a pix of them and email it to her to ask if she needs to see Jersey from what you describe.

[MimzMum]

I have to echo Pam on this one, Jerz. I think your bun could be headed for trouble if this has lasted this long and seems to be worsening. I see weird poos from all my buns, but usually pumpkin or oat hay gets them right back to something like normal again. That’s odd that they don’t have canned pumpkin there…are pumpkins illegal in Australia? 0_o

Do you ever see any cecals from her…or her eating her cecals? And I don’t recall, is she bonded to Rumball? Could she be eating something of his that could cause this?

[jerseygirl]

That’s odd that they don’t have canned pumpkin there…are pumpkins illegal in Australia? 0_o

Yes, we are odd. lol I just think Pumpkin Pie is not all that common here.

He poop we looking good today (Sun) so I’m relieved. It could have been a partial blockage. Any recurrance and I will have to contact my vet I think.

[usagi]

I’m not sold on the whole papaya thing either. To each his own, I suppose.

Glad to hear your ‘lil guy is feeling a bit better.

[MimzMum]

Glad to hear she’s doing better to day. I hope it doesn’t come back, but if it does, I’d whisk her to the doc.

I wonder if some parts of hay these days is just indigestible for bunnies? I sometimes find pieces of hair and hair in Pip’s poo too…not so much the boys…but it passes quickly so I don’t stress it. But they do all leave certain stems and stuff and don’t eat them, but would rather make nest out of them. Pip especially, I have to clean out her pen of all her ‘collected’ hay about every three days. She’s a real pack rat with it.
But now I wonder if it’s just not palatable? And if those days where I find it still in her fecals if she’s been eating her nesting hay?

[jerseygirl]

MM, it’s the indigestable fibre that is so key in their health though.  This article from the HRS really helped me understand alot.

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-3/digestibility.html   And I’ll just highlight some parts here briefly

What Is a Balanced Diet?

A balanced diet for a rabbit is a nutritional and a time balance. It includes protein, starch, carbohydrate, vitamins, and minerals in slower moving digestible material that can be absorbed. It also includes large amounts of fast-moving indigestible organic material. The next thing to learn is specific quantities of digestible and indigestible material that are appropriate for your rabbit.

Also, the size of the fibre particles affects how quickly it passes through their systems. 

Indigestible fiber is indigestible whether it’s pulled off the bark of a tree or blended into a feed, yet the size and type of the fiber can affect the length of time it takes to pass through the GI (gastro-intestinal) tract.

Contrary to what you might expect, the large particles don’t get stuck inside the rabbit while the small ones exit easily. It’s the other way around.

It goes into specific a bit more in the article.  So with Jersey I have wondered in the past that it is her not entirley chewing the food that causes it to pass the way it does. She is a quick eater. Also, she was eating some of the newer grass last week and may have gorged herself. It does make me consider her teeth (Petzy mentioned this last time) but at the vet during that time her teeth checked out ok.

 

[MimzMum]

Hm. Interesting. That does seem a little backwards about the fiber, doesn’t it? 0_o
I had to have Mimzy’s teeth checked several times because it just wasn’t obvious at first why he was having trouble with them. Since the beginning of the year he’s now had three molar trims. Perhaps Jersey has a problem that is only apparent to her right now, and the doc is missing it? Are her jaws properly aligned? No malocclusion?

[jerseygirl]

I’m taking her in for thorough molar check on Thursday. She’s pooping weird again and I really suspect she is not chewing her food enough. I feel like I’m being neurotic when I take her in.   But it keeps playing on my mind so I’ll just get her looked at. Possible pee & poop test too.

[MimzMum]

((((((((((((good checkup vibes))))))))))))) I hope they find out what’s wrong! Good luck to you! I’ll be thinking about you both!

[Sarita]

When Pepe is having dental problems (molar spurs) he does get poopy butt – it kind of goes hand in hand with that for him.

[jerseygirl]

Post visit: Well, nothing to report really. 😐 My vet got a better look at her teeth this time thinks they are good. She really thinks it’s some sort of bowel problem with Jersey. Bowel & motility. She’s going to contact some vets interstate to ask if they’ve experience with this sort of thing (we don’t have any specialists here in my State). She does think it’s something that’s going to have to be treated with medicines and that may be a trial and error process. She has mentioned cortisone several times but we are both reluctant about that – so I guess well wait to see if vet she is contacting has any suggestions.

[MimzMum]

Oh boo. That’s not very promising is it?
Well, I’ll just add some more healing vibes for dear Jersey. ((((((((((((((((((((get better bun!)))))))))))))))))) Looks like I get to lend you my shoulder for the wait to a diagnosis this time, Kate! And gladly too!
I really hope they figure it out quickly and can wrap up a treatment. Poor Jersey! (((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))

[Sarita]

Why cortisone? I’d be reluctant to use this as well. I’d be very frustrated as well. Keep us updated.

[jerseygirl]

Sarita, I don’t know. I’m not sure how it would be used. I’ll need to ask when I next speak with the vet. From what I’ve read on side effects, I am 99% sure I won’t want Jersey having it. Asides from damage to the liver and kidneys it can also cause thirst and more frequent urination. Um, already have that going on!!

[MimzMum]

Jerz, I don’t remember…has Jersey been tested for diabetes? Every time I see something about frequent urination and thirst I think about that as symptoms for this disease. And how’s her weight?

[jerseygirl]

MM, she had a full blood panel done in Dec. It didn’t show any problems. I was concerned about her weight at the time though she looks and feels good now. It didn’t show much on the scales but I could feel boniness & her coat condition and muscle tone appeared different. She feels more like her old self now so perhaps it was her summer coat that made her appear thin to me.  Her drinking is not “excessive” in that she probably consumes within the normal range. It was just alot more than she ever used to. 

[jerseygirl]

Update:

About 3 wks ago I had Jers in at the vet again for assistance with GI. She lost appetite, was sitting hunched with eyes half closed and a peed in spots not normal (for her!). I actually went thinking it was UTI & her not wanting to eat due to that.  Apparently she was quite gassy though. It all came on very fast. She ate morn pellets no trouble but by early afternoon she was not right. Anyhow, she had motility shot and a course of baytril and came right pretty quickly, passing a bit of mucus in her poop.

As mentioned previously, my vet was going to talk with other vets to get more of an idea what’s going on with Jersey. She had done this but had not been able to get hold of me. So she was able to tell me that she had done so at this vet visit. Basically no-one else had any real answers but suggested a fecal test. I have asked about this in the past but the vet didn’t think it would be worth it.

Now there is mention that perhaps some type of protozoan bug that *could* effect GI function. We can do a fecal test or just start medicating with metranidazole (Flagyl). (The cortisone I mentioned in previous posts was probably me mis-hearing something!) Both myself and the vet are cautious not to start medicating and so poop test will be the 1st step.

Jersey’s drinking seems to have normalised somewhat. I have noticed a minor improvement in her peeing too after the baytril. Though this could also be because she’s drinking that bit less. I noted this one other time after baytril but thought it due to my having the upper hand in the dominance battle from having to give meds. So anyway, that’s where it is all at.

[bunnymum16]

healing vibes to Jersey

[jerseygirl]

Thanks bunnymum16! Shes good generally, happy and healthy enough. She just has something not quite right with her digestive system.

[foxtailskies]

Just my two cents on Critical Care (I’m assuming you mean the Oxbow recovery diet or something like that), I don’t think it would help your current situation of wanting more fiber but I agree that it’s good to have around in case of emergency. It should only be used under the supervision of a vet, because it’s almost always used for force-feeding and very bad things can happen if you give too much, but there are a couple of situations where it could save a bun’s life- if you can’t get to a veterinarian quickly for some reason, or if the vet prescribes it for home care at least you have some on hand (it’s not widely available in the States, dunno about Aus.) After my last bun got his very sudden unexpected illness, I will always have a pack of Critical Care and a Snuggle Safe heating pad on hand, and just hope I never, ever have to use them.

[Author]

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