Advice please – bunny interaction (not bonded)

[Ali925]

I give my two buns free roam in separate sections of the house when we’re home.  (They are not yet bonded)  They can see one another from their pens, but we don’t allow them to go in that space between.  They are let out on opposite ends of their pens and each get a section of the house.  The only area where they could potentially cross paths is a doorway blocked with a baby gate and a sheet over top (and now part of blu’s pen wall extends in front of the gate as a double barrier). 

We have used this setup for months now and it’s been fine.  On occasion, one might show some interest in digging at the sheet or trying to see over the gate to see what’s there…and they can hear the other bunny running around too.  But it never caused any problem. 

Now this has changed.  The other night Oreo managed to break into Blu’s play area (I believe the gate somehow got loose without me knowing…I had my family over the night before and they had to step over it to get to the dining room – it may have gotten knocked by someone’s leg or something…).  Anyhow, we were watching tv in the adjacent room but I kept checking on them (as usual) and I caught them right as it happened.  I noticed the gate was down on one corner, and Oreo must have jumped over it.  I freaked out – yelled to my husband to grab Oreo and I’d get Blu..  Oreo was in the process of humping Blu…but he seemed to be okay since they weren’t even chasing each other…  But not knowing what was going to happen and it being a very large space, I separated them immediately and we each took one and returned them to their separate areas.

Neither seemed too affected by the encounter (in fact I’m hoping that’s a good sign for the future since there was no attack or chasing??)…they were a little shaky afterwards but I think I had a big part in that (bc of my freaking out – I was very scared for Blu being that he’s half her size and both were hard to get under control since it was a large space…so I might have made them more nervous by my reaction?)  Either way, they’re fine now, nothing has changed as far as their living side by side…the only problem is, now that they know what and who is on the other side of the gate, when they’re out of their pens they are totally preoccupied with the gate and trying to dig at the sheet, try to see over it, etc.. so much to the point that I feel like I have to stand there like a guard the whole time.  I have all intentions to bond them but just haven’t had the time to set aside just yet so this was working for now.  But now I’m not sure if it’s going to be a source of negativity between them?  Or based on what I’ve seen before, they will just one day start ignoring it more and it won’t be a problem anymore?  I just don’t want to go back to separate play times because we don’t have enough time at night to give them as much as we’d want to…       

as usual, thanks in advance

~Ali

 

[RabbitPam]

Ali,
I apologize if I don’t recall why they have been kept separate up until now. It sounds like they are both males, right? Is one or both spayed?

Bonding is a slow process for many, quick for a few who get along immediately and not at all for those that just can’t make it work, which is actually rare.
My impression is that they are ready to try to bond. It will always take some concentrated effort on your part to be diligent in the process over several days and weeks, but I think they are ready now. Between you and your husband, can you work out a bonding process for both of you to work on gradually that may be accomplished soon, and then you will be able to really relax once they are bonded? If you read up on the Bonding advice section, then follow that with some of the posts, like Beka’s bonding of Max and Meadow, you will get some excellent suggestions on how to go about it.
I think, unless they are male/female and both not speutered, it will be good to try it now while they are both interested.

[Ali925]

RabbitPam-
Thanks so much for your response. And no apologies please, you deal with so many bunnies and people I don’t expect you to remember me

Attempt at a quick recap:
Oreo is a spayed female, (almost a year old) and Blu is a neutered male (7 months old)… I got them both at 9 weeks old and thus Oreo was with us first… So when we brought Blu home we had to keep him separate because Oreo had just been spayed and he was still a baby. We have had them both living in the same room in two separate cage/pen areas with a few feet between them (they can’t reach each other). For the first weeks/month, we kept a cardboard barrier between them since we didn’t know how they’d tolerate one another (Blu was super curious and Oreo was a little annoyed at first I think). We haven’t had anything between their cages for months now, so they see each other daily… and they seem fine with it. Blu isn’t as interested in peering over at Oreo (i think since his neuter) and she never had interest in him unless he’s making a racket. haha

So in order to give them the most playtime possible, we started giving them separate parts of the house to free roam in when we’re home…previously they were getting turns out of their pens but I found that since their activity is so up and down during a set time one was getting active when it was time to return to their cage and then didn’t get the activity he/she needed.

We had one quick session (10 min) in June, a little over a month after Blu’s neuter and decided we needed to give him some time still to settle down. Although his hormones were diminished, he was still being an active young bunny, and Oreo seemed a little annoyed when we had them together…she is not always up for the running around as much as a younger bunny of course. So the plan was to wait it out until Blu was a bit older, and more mature. I believe he is now.

So you think they’re interested? I was more afraid they wanted to get at each other. But last night they were on either side of the baby gate just looking at each other…Oreo digging at the gate and trying to bite her way through, or jump over. I don’t know if she’s interested in him or just wants to go where she doesn’t belong and dominate another bunny… I’d really like to start bonding soon, if only my husband didn’t travel so much…I guess if his schedule clears up a bit we can try to figure something out soon. I guess I’m just assuming it’s going to take forever to bond and I don’t know if that’s something I can handle right now but I know I have to sometime!

Funny thing was, the one time we tried a session Blu was the one humping Oreo…and we had never seen him hump anything (Oreo was actually the humper, even as a female…she was just a little nutty until her spay..now she never does). But the other night when she got in his area, she was the one doing the humping – which I expected because I believe she’ll want to be the dominant one here… He seems like he could care less, so I’m hoping that’s the case and he’ll let her be in charge.

Sorry this is so long…and again thanks! I’ve read over some bonding journals but it can be very discouraging if you think the worst case..I will take a look at Beka’s bonding too. The only reason we got a second bunny was to give Oreo a buddy, so we have to plan for it sooner or later.

[RabbitPam]

Thanks for filling me in, which will help the other members catch up as well.
I think it’s an ideal time to start the bonding. I think they are definitely showing interest, are used to each other being in your home, are fully recovered from both their speuters, and want the companionship you had in mind. I’d say go for it! Have gloves, a spray water bottle and a strainer handy, so if any serious biting starts you can get between them. But otherwise, they will hump now to work out the dominance issue between them. Unless it is on the other’s face (stop that right away), or if one turns and seriously attacks, let them do it for a while to get their own rules established. Ignoring each other is a good sign initially. Grooming is fantastic. The ride in the car in a carrier together is highly recommended as a start. Also, what I love about Beka’s is her method of putting them in a laundry basket together on top of a running dryer to simulate a moving car. It worked!

I think you can do this. The others are really very experienced in bonding and here to help, so you can post as often as you want to get input. I think you’ll find that if your husband is traveling, you will have time to focus on the bonding alone with them, if it works it will be easier and fun for you, and actually once it’s finished you and he will have half the work of caring for them that you do now.
Good luck!

[RabbitPam]

P.S. Of course I remember you! I just can’t remember who are the girls and who are the boys and who are missing their bits without seeing a picture of them in their tiaras like Ruby.

[Beka27]

I think you should take the plunge. Sometimes OUR reactions and “internal what-ifs” can be more paralyzing than we realize. Not only should they bond for companionship as you said, but it will be easier for your family in the long-run, and most importantly: SAFER for them. If they had gotten together and fought rather than humped, this could have been a very, very bad situation, resulting in one or both at the vet’s office.

Do you have a plan in place for bonding? Location, time of day, stressing techniques if necessary, plan of “attack”?

[Beka27]

Also, once you check in and see this Ali, one of us Forum Leaders can relocate this thread to the bonding session. It’ll fit better there.

[Sarita]

I say you need to start now – you may be surprised that it can happen quickly. I’ve even had a pair bond themselves – the little female got into the males pen and voila! I’ve also had a pair bond in less than a week.

It can happen. And the sooner you start sessions the better.

[Ali925]

Very funny RP….lol

Thanks RabbitPam, Beka and Sarita! You actually give me hope I’m capable of doing this…of course I’m really nervous. It’s hard for me to handle them (pick up/transport) so that becomes just as much stress as putting them in the same area. so it helps to have my husband help me, although he’s no better than I am at it…and I think I’m a bit better. I have to just work on it because there’s no other way to even start bonding without being able to get them from place to place.

Beka – I never leave them unsupervised when they’re out, but I know it can happen fast and they can be SO quiet when they want to! Part of me wanted to leave them with Oreo humping and just see how they did!! but of course I didn’t…
I don’t have a plan but I’ve read the experiences of some others on the site..of course everyone is totally different so there are many ways I can take this. My plan was to “see how it goes”… If the first sessions go well I can simply increase time and eventually space right? But if the first sessions don’t go well, I’d need to add in some additional stressors (although with Oreo, bonding will be stressful enough..she’s so jumpy and nervous with the smallest changes…)

Time of day: would have to be at night and on weekends. I have a long commute with work so that keeps me away a large portion of the day, so I can’t do mornings and evenings.. But the weekends we could always try 2 sessions. I know the more the better right? I’m concerned that somehow I might miss a day here and there and I know that’s not going to help, but as long as I am mostly consistent it should be okay? My schedule is limiting during the workweek like I mentioned so some nights might be too late…

Location: the bathroom floor with a pen? I could make the cube Petzy has suggested before since I do have those grids, but is that only if I really need to force snuggling, etc.? The only places they haven’t been (except on the rare occasion we left a door open and Oreo wandered in..but it was only for a minute or two) are our bedroom, bathroom, and the two spare rooms which are quite small.. I want to be able to fit in the pen with them right?

Stressing techniques: Like I said Oreo is likely going to be stressed on her own, but if we have to do any stressing I guess a car ride? Our washer/dryer setup is frontloading so that’s not an option. I think I read someone, (maybe it was Elrohwen) bounced them a bit in a laundry basket? I should try first without stressing correct?

Finally, I am most concerned that I’ll be intervening too much. I am thinking I’ll get a better handle on this when I’ve done it a few times? But I know I can’t intervene anytime anything happens or they won’t ever bond. It’s sometimes hard for me to tell the difference between grooming and fighting? Is that just me? Any tips would be great…this is obviously my first pair of bunnies so it’s been quite a learning experience from the start.

You can move this to the bonding section now – thanks!! whew that’s a lot I wrote, sorry… I appreciate your help! And advice on a plan or suggestions for anything, please let me know. Sarita, I would LOVE to see a quick bond! If I go into it expecting nothing I can be pleasantly surprised (crossing fingers)

[Beka27]

Sounds good. It is difficult to know when to intervene. You don’t want them to fight. Small scuffles or nips may happen, but a full-blown fight is not good and can be detrimental to their progress. So you’ll just have to watch very closely to read body language, and if they fight, it will only take once or twice for you to learn what they do right before they go at it. I think it’s good for you to hold off on stressing them unless they need it. Not all bunnies do.

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