Advice on bonding

[mia]

https://plus.google.com/101054361296448053809/posts

NewBun – male, the new bun, duh – wish for it to work out before naming

ResidentBuns = Baozi and Mantou – already bonded and have been bonded for 4 years, has never been the most chummy pair, I got NewBun hoping the dynamics would be better since they would get in horrible fights a couple times a year.

Baozi – female – always fiesty, very vocal, normally fights with Mantou every once in a while, when shes with other buns she’s always by herself since she can’t get along with anyone / is a troublemaker

Mantou – male – very mellow, aloof, only fights when it comes to food, never seen him not get along with others unless there was food involved

I got NewBun a week ago and he did OK with the ResidentBuns during the meet at SaveABunny. The ResidentBuns live together beside NewBun and I’ve been moving them to the bathroom for about 2 hours everyday. NewBun and Mantou have always been great together – NewBun always grooms Mantou but Mantou never grooms back – Mantou never grooms Baozi in my presense; he has to keep up appearances =). NewBun and Mantou always sat together in the bathroom and the ResidentBuns never really chilled together in the bathroom except when Baozi sneak grooms Mantou. Baozi, on the other hand, usually ignores NewBun or gives NewBun and Mantou the bunny butt. She sometimes jumps and slaps NewBun but that really isn’t anything new compared to how she treats Mantou. She gradually got to a point where she could be right next to NewBun without fighting.

Yesterday I let them in my room overnight after they did well in the bathroom. Baozi fought NewBun every time they met, NewBun would thump away, and I would yell at Baozi. Maotou and NewBun never chilled together like they did in the bathroom; I know Mantou is aloof but this was very surprising to me. Usually it was all three sitting separately under my bed. The ResidentBuns’ dynamic did not change from normal.

Should we go back to bathroom only?

[KimberlyF]

I’m not a great expert on bonding, but i know when things don’t work out when you move forward, that you should go back a step and give it more time. Just my 2 cents.

[MoveDiagonally]

Is your room neutral, semi-neutral, or territory?

[mia]

ResidentBuns were free range when I’m home so I don’t have any completely neutral areas. The bathroom is just where they don’t like as much. I vacuumed all and scrubbed some areas of my room before they came. That said, I don’t think the vacuum picks up all the fur nor does the scrubbing rid of all the pee (there are two spots that has huge pee issues).

[MoveDiagonally]

On the bottom of the bonding info page there are some suggestions for making semi-neutral space in a house that had free range bunnies:
https://binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO/tabid/53/CategoryID/9/PID/940/Default.aspx

It sounds like NewBun and Mantou are progressing in their bond while NewBun and Baozi are a little bit behind. I had a similar situation with my trio. Dexter and Penny were my original pair and Dex bonded with Monty faster than Penny did. Have you tried any pair sessions? While I favored group sessions I do think some one on one did Penny and Monty good in the early stages of bonding. If you have 2 hours to bond then I might do 1 hour of NewBun and Baozi and then another hour of group and see if it makes any difference.

I would also make sure they don’t have too much room during their sessions. I wouldn’t have them free range in a room but confined to a pen that’s been made semi neutral ish. Have you tried or considered trying some stress bonding?

If you’re interested here’s a link to my trio bonding thread:
https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/125145/Default.aspx

I have pics and videos of some stuff I tried while bondng my trio. 

[mia]

Think I’ll just do bathroom for now.
I was told not to split them up and do 2 + 2 bonding. I did put Baozi and NewBun in a large cardboard box for transport to the bathroom though and surprisingly, there were no fights. Reason I’m still open to letting them in my room is because the behavior between Baozi and NewBun is not a huge leap from her behavior with Mantou. It’s only with Mantou, Baozi actually sneak grooms him; she normally fights with him too.

[MoveDiagonally]

It’s fine to do 1 on 1 bonding sessions when you’re bonding a trio. The dynamic of a pair can be different than when in a group but it can be helpful in the early stages of bonding. I’m not sure why anyone would tell you not to do it.

Your bonded pair frequently fights? 

[mia]

I believe it’s to not disrupt the current bond.

Yes, I have a very special pair with a love / hate / rocky relationship =). They have never been the cuddling together type of pair. Baozi is a very special little girl; she’s very skittish and opinionated. When she loves, she truly shows her affection, is adorable, does the happiest binkies, and I swear, you can see her smile. When she’s on her terror streak though, she’ll scratch, grunt, thump, flick her feet, jump and strike, etc.

Mantou used to terrorize Baozi when it came to food that she learned to stay out of his way and let him eat first. Every other time everything was great. He lost some weight and then the dynamics began to shift with Baozi getting bolder and bolder towards Mantou if not taking over. So, in comes NewBun, who has so much love to give.

[MoveDiagonally]

Ah, I see. I don’t see it as being a real concern, almost every bonding resource for multiple bunnies recommends doing some work in pairs and as a group. I’m not trying to pressure you into doing it or anything, I hope it didn’t come off that way. I was just curious about why you were told it was discouraged.

I think I understand better about you bunnies now. Hopefully NewBun will complete the dynamic and make things better for everyone. Since bonding my trio I’ve noticed improvements in behaviors.

Keep us posted on how things are going!

[mia]

They all seem to do very well in the bathroom as well as when I put them all into a box for transport. Actually caught NewBun able to groom Baozi! Of course, Baozi got mad at something or other later on and fought a little but again, very normal behavior for her.

[mia]

For a couple nights, I’ve opened up their living quarters’ x-pen door (down the hall) so they can wander freely between their two sections and my bedroom. I’ve found them frequently all in the same x-pen though all three are not together. It’s either Mantou and NewBun, not quite together but just chilling near each other, or Baozi and Mantou sitting beside each other. However, Baozi and NewBun are not fighting; they have ran together, ate and drank together, and each have groomed each other when I forced them together when I made all three sit in the same small litter box (three small buns in a box =)). Baozi still chases NewBun and still nips fur off (much much smaller amount compared to before when she fought NewBun in my bedroom before), rarely but it does happen; however, she behaves the same way with Mantou (you can see the trail of fur she nipped off of Mantou in the G+ link above).

Once, NewBun was silly and jumped into a small open box (a small pet carrier box) and couldn’t get out. Baozi apparently decided to jump in too and got stuck with him.

How do I know I can trust them to live together when not in my presence? Their normal living quarters is not just the x-pen area, but a NIC condo too which I don’t think NewBun has been in. It’s semi opened but I haven’t cleaned it yet I definitely feel ok letting them wander between their x-pens overnight even though it’s out of my most of the time; I feel comfortable that I can hear if anything goes wrong (like when they got into the box/carrier).

[Author]

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