Advice needed – Myxomatosis

[Lauralil]

Hi all,

Any advice greatly received.

Took my 5mth Mini Lops to vets yesterday (1 male and 1 female) to have their ops and jabs. Was meant to be done a couple of weeks ago but the female had sneezes so took her to vets and she’s had a week of antibiotics and all seems to have gone.

However…upon pre op inspection the vet found the girls genitals to be quite swollen. Her eyes are bright, possibly red-ish swollen mouth (although more questionable today as looks more normal) and still eating fine – tucked straight into her greens this morning and no change in eyes so far today.

Neither rabbit have been in contact with each other as they hadn’t had their ops yet, but they are in a double split hutch with the female above the male (possible bit of bedding falling through into males)

The vet has obviously delayed her op as he suspects myxomatosis and has said there’s nothing I can do other than wait. He’s also said it was possibly best to leave the male to see if he gets it it then said it wasn’t transferable between rabbits. So we came home yesterday with still un-neautured rabbits and un-vaccinated rabbits.

I was taken back a bit by it all so didn’t ask the right questions, but is the male anymore likely to get it now that the female has it if it’s not transferred between rabbits? Shouldn’t he have had his jab at least? The vet said I’d know in 2-3 days if it was myxomatosis but what else could it be if it isn’t that?
The only thing that worries me a bit more is that she’s spending a lot more time in her sleeping compartment of the hutch…but she has got the royal hump with me since I took her to the vets the first time. She now runs away when she didn’t before. Could it just be she’s cross or likely to be a sign of feeling poorly?

I shld add we’ve only had them 6wks and just thought I’d be best off getting jabs at same time as op so as not to give them the stress of vets twice. Wanted to get them settled and happy and females sneezing sorted before but obviously regretting not taking them straight for jabs now.

Is there anything at all I can do to help her or prevent the male getting it?

Thx x

[Bam]

I’m very sorry to hear this.

You have to separate them properly and thoroughly. Do not touch the male or his housing/bedding/ food after being in contact with the doe. Clean everything with Virkon S or F10. Change clothes when you’ve tended to the sick bunny. Of course wash your hands with f ex dettol soap. 

Myxo is highly contagious between rabbits. It’s also spread by mosquitos and ticks, fleas and even mites. If the male can be housed inside until he can have his jab + 14 days for it to take effect, that increases his chances of not contracting the disease, since mosquito-season is here and there are likely many wild rabbits in your area that are carriers/sick. If he’s already caught the disease the jab won’t help, but if he hasn’t I don’t quite see whay he didn’t get the vaccine?

Keep the doe warm, if this is myxo you will probably need to support feed her and give sub Q fluids. Supportive care is the only thing you can do, there is no cure. I’d ask the vet for a pain-killer. A bunny can in rare cases survive myxomatosis, but the prognosis is very poor. It is a very cruel disease.

[Lauralil]

Wish I’d read this 15 minutes ago – just been out there sorting them all and done the complete opposite of everything above Although I did sort him before her at least. The vet said they don’t contract it from each other I will try and get another hutch to seperate them completely but nothing I can do about that today unfortunately. And obviously follow above from now on.

She’s just eaten lots again and whilst she’s been in hiding in the sleeping compartment quite a lot, when she is out and eating, she does seem relatively lively. She’s doing lots of grooming generally but quite a lot around her swollen bits.

Is there anything else this could be?

Could the antibiotics she had the week before be linked at all or do we think I’m just clutching at straws?

At the moment it does just seem a waiting game as it wasn’t enough for the vet to confirm it, if there is another sign that it’s definitely myxomatosis then I would have her out to sleep straight away to stop any suffering.

How quickly would the boy show signs do you think? He seems bright as a button and no swelling yesterday and eating and drinking well.

Thanks for you advice!

[jerseygirl]

Oh Im sorry. Is there any chance they had a set of jabs before they came to you? Some vaccinated rabbits can still myxo but it’s a milder form.

There is rabbit syphillis (AKA vent disease, hutch burn, or Treponematosis) that has some syptoms similiar to myxomatosis. Swollen genitals, crusty lesions forming around eye, mouth, nose. It can also present without the swollen genitals. It is caused by a bacteria where as myxo is viral. It is treated with penicillin shots.

However, given her respiratory symptoms…that can also be another way that myxomatosis presents.  This is usually more with rabbits in large groups (like farmed rabbits).

I really hope that isn’t the case and her respiratory symptom are due to another cause. Sending healing {{{vibes}}}!

It’s really hard to give a time frame if the boy is also infected. There are a lot of different strains. Are you in the UK? There is a Facebook page that keeps track of outbreaks and it may tell you want typical symptoms are for strains seen in your area.

[jerseygirl]

Here’s the Facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/groups/MyxomatosismapfortheUK/

[Lauralil]

I certainly wasn’t told that she’d had any so I’m assuming not. She came from a garden centre pet department where they’ve said they have used the same breeder for years and years. I got them from there as a friend had previously got 2 and are doing really well (about a year old and no probs)
The sneezing was something I’d noticed from having her but it was so sporadic that it took a while for me to realise it was happening and that I’d never heard the boy sneeze. They had also seemed to improve before I took her to the vets. He seemed to think it was nothing (and certainly no signs of swelling at that point) but gave antibiotics just in case which did solve it as I’ve not heard her sneeze since…but now the swelling a few days after finishing the antibiotics.

She was always happy and lively thoughout that time, it’s only the last few days she seems to have gone into hiding.

Should I get her out and let her hop about the house like normal, or assume she’s feeling pants and leave her be?

She’s sitting out and looking out now so possibly the heat today and finally learnt to hide in the shade? (Wishful thinking again?)

I can deal with the known but not great with the Unknown ? Xx

[Lauralil]

And sorry yes, in UK – Surrey
Thank you I’ll take a look xx

[jerseygirl]

Oh it’s really good if the antibiotics helped with the sneezing. That tells you is was probably a bacterial infection.

I would leave her be, I think. If she is feeling poorly, keeping things low stress is much better. As always, keep an eye out that they are eating, drinking and toileting.

[Lauralil]

Looks like we’re not in an outbreak area at all going on the FB page…but I guess it always has to start somewhere ?

[Vienna Blue in France]

Definitely a BB member from the UK (specifically SE I’d say) with a saying like “feeling pants” LOL – to our lovely american family, this does not mean the rabbit is standing on hind legs touching someone’s ‘trousers’ with the front 2 paws…..’ LOL – it means she’s feeling really $*&!…

PS Lauralil – I’m a surrey-ite too but undercover at the mo. Sssshhhhh.

[Vienna Blue in France]

ooooo, the site doesn’t let me say $*&!…… lol – it automatically turns it into dollar signs and suchlike! Magic !
So I shall say “she’s feeling really not well at all”…..

[Lauralil]

Phew – that’s what I have done but then wondered if I was being mean not letting her in. We just had a cuddle sitting on step and she seemed OK with it.

She does insist on sitting in her litter tray – I clean it out every 1-2 days but could that be anything to do with it?

Obviously would be glad if it’s not Myxomatosis but also slightly worried it’s something else that should be having some form of treatment.

Cor, these bunnies are complex animals, I’m sure my horses, dogs and cats were easier!! ? Xx

[Vienna Blue in France]

Yes indeed our little furry friends are complex and fragile and give endless love (though sometimes don’t show it openly )
I hope myxo hasn’t got south either…. it’s not been confirmed yet though has it…. it’s a waiting game now.
I shall have to warn friends in Reigate if it’s confirmed…

[Lauralil]

Haha Vienna that’s cracked me up (is that UK SE slang too?!?)

Clearly id be pants at going undercover ? Xx

[jerseygirl]

Haha Vienna that’s cracked me up (is that UK SE slang too?!?)

I don’t know it’s origins but I say “cracked me up” a lot. In fact, Vienna cracked me up a lot last night! 

I wasn’t familiar with “feeling pants” – I shall file that one away. : )

I can usually pick up on when someone is posting from the UK from some terms. Your mention of jabs is what clued me in.

[Lauralil]

Yes Vienna, Reigate is only 20 miles from me and I wave as I drive past it on the M25 every working day ??

As for these fury friends not showing the love – I’m hoping the male gets a little more friendly once he’s done. I’ve got scratches to prove what he thinks of me despite lots of quiet calm strokes and cheap tactics of bribery.

Jersygirl is “jab” a UK thing then? What’s Aussie for it? When a “jab” is invented to repel all snakes and spiders I may head your way to visit some friends that moved there a year ago (although she is an Aussie – and her names Kylie ?) But until then…coping with the slugs that try to invade the hutch every night is my limit Xx

[Bam]

Vienna, Zou is vaccinated isn’t she?

Lauralil, sometimes a bunny will be sitting in its litterbox when it’s…feeling pants. Feeling pants! (We do love to learn new expressions here!)
If this is sth else that she is needing treatment for, in which case it’s most likely bunny syphilis as Jersey says (treponematosis, vent disease), you are looking at a whole other time-frame. You can in other words hold off on until you’re sure it’s not myxo, as long as she’s eating and drinking and pooping and isn’t lethargic. If you need to take her in, obviously call in advance and say you have a suspected case of myxo so they let you in through a separate entrance.

I sincerely hope it isn’t myxo. We have an outbreak now not far from where I live, I just saw in today’s paper. There are outbreaks around here every year. (south of Sweden).

[Lauralil]

And I do like to educate…UK SE meaning of pants is my limit mind you LOL.

I am really hoping it’s the vent disease then and shld nothing more materialise in the next couple of days, I’m assuming I should then take her back to start treatment for that instead? (Will be swatting up on vent disease in the mean time). I did look earlier and thought it was perhaps a little less swollen.

Would it help to take her off wood shavings or would it make no difference?

I can’t believe how attached I’ve become in just 6wks – I cried leaving the vets and then explained to my 4 nearly 5 year old about what might happen (pets are about life lessons in this house I’m afraid and ignored his grans advice of “tell him the rabbit ran away” if the worst happens) and we both cried lots. Who knows what he’s gone in telling his teacher today as he started asking if we’d given medicine to his grandad to make him sleep too…eek! ?

[Aki]

I really hope it’s not myxomatosis, You will know pretty fast if it is : the first signs appear after 5 to 20 days after the contamination and the death of the rabbit occurs about a week after that – a fortnight at the most. If your rabbit has it, her state will get steadily worse and she will be in a very bad state after a few days. So I guess you’ll know for sure before the end of the week.
In any case I’d try to find a different vet if it’s possible : I wouldn’t let a vet who clearly knows nothing about rabbits (vaccinating the male was common sense and the fact that myxomatosis is contagious between rabbits is the kind of thing that most people know) operate on mine. Spaying and neutering are not risky operations… when they are done by a vet who is knowledgeable about rabbits.
Also, you should never vaccinate an animal just before / just after an operation : vaccination weakens the immune system, it has to be done when the rabbit is in good health and uninjured or you are opening the door to all the possible side effects from the vaccination. To begin with, vaccination and an operation can both lead to GI stasis, so it’s not a risk I would take.
As a side note, it’s my personal opinion, but if your little doe ends up recovering I would refuse the Nobivac vaccine as there were several pharmacovigilance reports about it, it’s main problem being to make previously cured ailments come back stronger (sometimes to the point of them being impossible to cure again and leading to the death of the rabbit – I know six rabbits who died this way and the main French society about rabbits advised against using it on a rabbit who hasn’t been 100% healthy their whole life).
I really hope you’ll have good news for us in a few days. Myxomatosis is really a rabbit owner’s nightmare :/

[Vienna Blue in France]

bam – no, vet hasn’t offered anything in the way of ‘jabs’
Laura – “undercover” means undercover, secreet, unrecognisable – its not a slang word for girls going commando or anything !!

To SCHLEP !
I learnt a saying the other day from my nephew that even Graham Norton came out with on the radio (and I’m googling now as I’ve forgotten it already)
To schlep over to somewhere – a long schlep….. they say it all the time now…!!
Dictionary – Schlep definition, to carry; lug: to schlep an umbrella on a sunny day..
But I heard it more in a ‘distance is a long way’ kinda way rather than lugging something.
Where did that come from ??

Laura – your son’s gran’s idea reminded me of Friends episode where Phoebe was saying how her (was it) hamster lived for like 15 years, and kept changing colour…! Her Mum kept replacing the dead one with a new one without telling Phoebe !!

[Lauralil]

Aki – yes I’d come to that conclusion re the vets after reading above comments – especially as he handled the boy, then the girl, then the boy and then the girl again for comparisons.
It wasn’t a vet I’d used before as moved area since owning other animals.
I’ve got everything crossed that I’ve got lucky and its this vent disease instead (need a fingers crossed emoji)

Will have a read up then on the Nobivac then. I’m certainly not one to take the vets word as gospel but rabbits are a newbie for me, much better on dog things. Looked like I’m in for a steep learning curve ?

Lol Vienna – Schlep, that’s a new one on me. I thought I’d heard of that but more “s/he’s a right schlep” context meaning s/he’s a bit of a chump or wet blanket type person, so guessing I’ve got that one wrong over the years ?

That’s classic Friends – love it!!! Recon my mother would have tried that one had I not been the first to find the rock hard hamster when I was a child.

[Bam]

Vienna, you should het her vaccinated imo. She’s outside a good deal and mosquitos spread it. You could ask, if they say your area is low risk then it probably is. It’s not expensive. If it is expensive in France you could get it done in the UK, it’s routinely done there.

Aki, I do agree that that you should only ever vaccinate a healthy animal since all vaccines challenge the immune defense. That’s what they’re supposed to do, trigger a immune-response so the body starts producing antibodies. It’s not sth you’d want to do at the same time as a spay, but a neuter is a simpler op so that could work – I’d not risk it though. I’d wait 2 weeks.

I haven’t had any problems with the Nobivac myxo-RHD though, that’s the vaccine available here. One of my buns did get a problem with the old single vaccines for myxo or RVD though, don’t know which one since they were given at the same time. That was Cunivak. It was a very slight problem though and he made a full recovery. Here we can’t not vaccinate against myxo, it’s so very very common and the worst period is from now until October.

[Lauralil]

Well I’m not sure if I’m being too optimistic here but we still have clear eyes, she’s been out and about more and her ‘bits’ are a lot less swollen.

Do we think I’m safe to assume it’s not Myxomatosis?????

Xx

[Gina.Jenny]

Really hope not. Lots of healing vibes.

Our bunny savy vets wouldn’t do a spay and myxi/vhd jab within 3 weeks of each other, so I would check with your vet as to the wisdom of giving a bun a myxi jab at the same time as a spay?

[Bam]

Lauralil, I honestly can’t say if she’s out of the woods, but it does sound hopeful.

I agree you probably should look around for a different vet. I’d be very reluctant to let the one you have spay my girl.

[Vienna Blue in France]

@bam – AKA Zou’s Swedish health guardian angel : RHD-myxo booked in for next tues. +/- 40€

[Bam]

Lauralil, any news?

Vienna, I do think it is wiser, myxo is a cruel disease and really quite common in the wild rabbit community. It’s esp important seeing that you forage for her and she gets outside time. There can be side-effects to any vaccine though, my buns haven’t experienced any with this vaccine, but all buns are different. As I know you know of course =) 40E is 10 E more than I pay, but prices vary here among clinics too.

[Lauralil]

Well all seems to be fine. Her coats still looking good, no runny eyes, swelling gone and seems normal to me. She’s eating normally…in fact very eger for her greens last night as I had to reduce pellets as she won’t touch her hay, fussy mare!

Sure it must mean it was a false alarm now?

My only thing is, what caused the swelling and why would it suddenly go again without any treatment?

Not sure when to get her to vets (a different one of course) for her jab now?!? ?

[Bam]

You can get the jabs from any vet, it’d be the same vaccine and it’s given in a single dose, any vet will be able to give that. A spay is of course a vastly more complicated procedure, so I’d like to get a rabbit savvy vet for that.

It does sound like she doesn’t have myxo, and thank goodness for that. Give it a few days more and then we’ll celebrate!!!

Human syphilis, that is NOT the same as rabbit syphilis (rabbit syphilis will ONLY affect rabbits!) but is caused by similar-shaped bacteria called spirochetes (spiral-formed), becomes un-symptomatic after the initial stage, then re-appear, then go into hiding again and finally reappear as tertiary syphilis. The infection is ongoing though, so the affected person is not well between stages, just superficially asymptomatic. I don’t know if this can be the case with rabbit syphilis as well, I’ll have to look into that further. You treat rabbit syphilis with penicillin G injections.

There is of course a possibility that a strong bun can fight off just about any disease with its own immune defense, with a few exceptions (RHD has a 100% mortality rate, hence vaccination is important, but this vaccine is included in the myxo-RHD jab (Nobivac).)

[Vienna Blue in France]

Myxo is NOT nice. I cared for several in my first job in France and they kept the survivor to breed with so the babies had autoimmunisation. He was not a pretty bunny afterwards but very loving. Kept away from the other buns I kept him company. I had no idea of health and safety practices then and I’m sure I put some babies out of their misery.
There was another bun I called Peter (!) Who had a funny hard round scab grow on his ear and I cleaned it every day and one day a couple of months later it just fell out leaving a hole (not bleeding) about the size of a penny coin !!! So funny!!! He became my friend…. until the time came… (luckily i’m not soft at heart)…

[jerseygirl]

Fingers crossed she is in the clear, Lauralil !

My only thing is, what caused the swelling and why would it suddenly go again without any treatment?

I just had a thought… Could anyone else have let these two be together? I *think* if a doe has been bred, she may have swollen genitals after, but don’t quote me!!! My other thought is she had some irritation there maybe due to bedding, cage, insect bite, or possible a urinary issue.

[Lauralil]

Hey!

All seems totally fine now. It’s so odd but definitely no way at all that they’ve been together. Only hubby here and he def wouldn’t and then the kids (4 and 1) and the hutch is all padlocked up so 4 year old couldn’t do it (he’d let them run around the garden before he ever go them in the same hutch ?)

She’s acted just like a dog that comes into heat but obviously I know it doesn’t work like that for rabbits. Lilah is indoor as the moment happy as larry hoping about and bright and alert.

Hector the boy was in before (Lilah’s not been in since all this started) and he’s the same, bright as normal and still no swelling.

It seems it’s a mystery and probably one never to be solved??

Will get them both booked in next week for jabs and then their ops a few weeks later I think.

Thanks for all you help xx

[Lauralil]

I was going to post a couple of pics but not a clue how ?

[Bam]

Lauralil, if you look in the sub forum Technical Stuff there’s a thread called How To Insert Pics In Your Post where leader Jerseygirl has made a little tutorial with screenshots. I’m on my phone so I can’t link directly or I would’ve.

[Bam]

Oh and by the way, a girl bun can go into heat and then a false pregnancy if she’s just in the same room as a boy. And sometimes not even that much is required. They are induced ovulators so they don’t go into heat periodically like dogs, but they can absolutely have pseudo-pregnancies. It ends with the doe pulling fur (the fur loosens due to hormones) off her chest and building a nest. If that happens, give her a dummy nest box that she can put bedding in. False pregnancies always resolve on their own.

[Lauralil]

Could this have been it then? She went into hiding in her sleeping but, lots of grooming and right hump with me. She’s moulting lots but I’ve just assumed it’s the weather. No chunks of fur though and much happier now?
She would have been able to smell the boy for sure and had seen him more when he was in the run and her in hutch and vice versa.

I will try and figure out this photo bit in a while xx

[Lauralil]

I’ve just read the uploading photos from iPhone 6 post – all too technical for my little headache stricken brain today.
They’re pretty bunnies is what the pics would show ? Xx

[Vienna Blue in France]

LOL !! Lauralil – to post photos you need to click on ” +Reply ” button (down below underneath our avatars) rather than just typing down here in the quick reply box and then upload. try that tmw when head feels better.

[Lauralil]

Now that I can do…but the file sizes are too big…and that I can’t deal with (thicko over here) ???

[Vienna Blue in France]

Ahhhhh yes don’t ask me about the ” i ” brigade – me know nah’fink !
You’ll have to transfer onto computer to make it easier… or ask someone clevererererer than I !

[Author]

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