Advice Needed- – Bun w/ Chronic Reneal Disease.

[BertBun]

Hello All,

 

It would be great to get some advice/vent.  My 2 1/2 yr old bun is sick.

Last Wednesday I came home from work and noticed immediately that something was not right.  He did not great me at all and he seemed to be limping. He was also very lethargic.  I thought that maybe when he was jumping from the different levels of his cage that maybe he hurt himself (he reuses to use the ramps I built for him).  I watched him overnight and brought him to the vet early the next afternoon.  I am lucky to live close to one of the best Hospitals in the country that has an Exotic specialist.  She looked him over and from the physical exam he seemed OK.  But she did say that from the way one of his hind legs was limping that he might have E. Cuniculi.  So he got an Xray to be safe and some blood work.  The xray came back quickly showing that he had a bladder stone that was located in one of his Ureters.  His blood work also came back showing that his Creatine levels were very high.  The docs gave him some Sub Q fluids and  I brought him home that night and gave him some pain meds and began to give him Critical Care. 

I began to hand feed him greens and hay, which he took, but he still was not drinking that much.  He has also began to get very picky about what greens he will eat.  He normally would love green leaf lettuce or cilantro but now only seems to want to eat Kale, which I know is high in calcium so I don’t give it to him that often.  He also will no longer eat any pellets.  

I brought him in to get an ultrasound on Saturday morning hoping that maybe the stone had past since he become somewhat more active.  But the results came back saying that he still had the stone but urine was able to pass by it and that he had an inflamed Kidney and that he had Chronic Renal Disease most likely caused by EC,  We will not know for sure if he has EC for another 10 days since the results take 14 days.  We got sent home with orders to give him 120ml of Sub Q fluids 3x a day which we did for three days.  We also got some antibiotics.  He unfortunelty did not responds to this treatment, which was was urinating a lot (much of which any where he pleased) he was still very latharghic.  He has not been eating/drinking/going to the bathroom his normal amounts.  We called the vet and she said that we should bring him in and admit him for a a day or two to see if he responds there.  

I am very concerned that there is not much more that we can do for him, I know hat he will be very stressed being in the hospital, but am going to give it a try.  Does any one have any experience with buns with Renal Disease, the vet says that it its not possible to cure him and its about getting him as comfortable as possible.  Its just unbelievable how quickly they can go from being their normal selves to being very sick.

 

Sorry for the long post and thanks.

[Sarita]

Welcome. I’ve only dealt with renal disease in an older rabbit and it’s really all about quality of life. It’s true that once they meet a certain point in renal failure, there is not much you can do, I’m not sure what point your rabbit is at.

I think your vet should hopefully have a very honest discussion with you about what his chances are and what his quality of life will be like.

I guess you also have the choice of getting a second opinion as well especially since he is a young rabbit. It does sound like your vet is running all the tests possible.

[BertBun]

Thanks for the response. We checked our little guy into the Hospital, they are going to monitor him for two days and see if there is any improvement. The vet is not very optimistic about his long term prognosis. If we do bring him home we wold need to give Sub Q fluids for the rest of his life. It is hard to start to think about helping him pass, but I am not sure that the quality of life he will have getting poked and prodded for the rest of his life. He is still so young and I guess that is why this is so difficult.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Welcome -I’m really sorry to hear what brought you here. *hugs* {{Healing Vibes}}

I don’t have a lot of experience with kidney stuff, except discussed at work and that’s with humans. If I were in your situation (which is about as good as it gets since you have a specialist treating) the only things I would want to know is
1) What other causes besides EC could they think of (i.e. anything enviornmental that you could perhaps control now to help)
2) Can you give pain medication-kidney stones are definitely painful and some pain control is beneficial to both recovery and quality of life
3) Is surgery an option (for your bunny and for you, what I mean by that is situation wise, if it would be an option for your bunnies treatment and is that something you could facilitate with the vet)

But I’d say for sure pain control if your vet didn’t give you anything yet-and other than that I think your doing the best you possibly can, with fantastic and thorough diagnositcs and a specialist treating your bunny. You bun couldn’t have asked for a more thoughtful and diligent owner *please keep us posted. I do hope the prognosis and outcome are better

[jerseygirl]

Could his kidney results be off because of the stone though? Having that could certainly contribute to a UTI and peeing everywhere.
Other then fluids, is there anything else they can do to get him to pass the bladder stone? Anything that might help dissolve it?
It can’t be comfortable. : (

E.C. blood test can be tricky as they don’t really show if their is an active EC infection or not. Merely whether there has been an immune response to the parasite. The parasite is common and many rabbits have been exposed at some point.

If me, I’d want that stone gone and see if that help normalise things and even have him moving more comfortably. Then, after some recovery time, then look again at EC & associated renal failure. Just my feeling on it. Like Kokaneeandkahlua’s “1) What other causes besides EC could they think of (i.e. anything enviornmental that you could perhaps control now to help” I’d what to know this before looking to EC as the culprit.

[BertBun]

The vet said because the stone has not yet passed into the bladder surgery would be very risky and not possible. We are hoping that the stone will move down so that it could be removed. He is getting pain meds and did over the past few days. I will speaking with the vet to get an update on his condition this afternoon.

[jerseygirl]

Hope theres some positive news for the little guy. Healing (((Vibes))) for him!

[Queensbun]

I know it’s not the same but my cat had chronic renal disease. I treated him at home with meds, special diet and sub-Q fluids once a day (took less than 10 minutes once you get the hang of it) for a year and a half – as long as he had quality of life. It’s a big commitment though. I avoided going out of town unless absolutely necessary in which case I had to find someone to administer fluids which was difficult. There’s finances to consider – expenses for ongoing medical supplies, not to mention the emotional toll. Many things to consider. Anyway, I hope the vet has some good news for you this afternoon.

[BertBun]

Just talked to the vet. She said that he seems to have a very slight head tilt and that all his symptoms are leading her to believe he has EC. Also one kidney function has gotten better and the other has gotten slightly worse. We are trying to decide to start treatment for the EC or wait another week for the blood results, everything is leading us to think that we should start it. The EC may be the culprit his lack of appetite and being so lethargic. The vet says that since the stone is in the Kidney it should not be as painful, and that giving him pain meds would not be good for his already weeks kidneys. We are going to visit with him tonight, and see how is doing.

[Sarita]

Vibes to your bunny.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

{{Vibes}}
In my experience with tilt and readig about it, what I’ve read is the best is to start treatment early-it’s antibiotics so it’s can’t hurt, might help territory…So if you’ll allow for some opinion mine is start EC treatment now just in case

Keep us posted!! I’m thinking of your bun and hoping things go better! I’d love to put a name to my thoughts-perhaps I missed, but what is your bunny’s name?

[BertBun]

His name is Bert.

I called the Vet early this morning and we decided to start with the EC treatment. We are planning on brining him home tonight and continuing treatment there. We will see how he does. I am lucky that my spouse works from home she he will have eyes on him all the times. The vet is hopeful that after the first few days of the EC treatment henmight get more active and start to eat more on his own. We will have to give him Sub Q fluids, but only once abday which is not bad. Does anyone have any advice/tricks get him drinking and eating more on his own, before we brought him to the hospital he was very picky about the greens he would eat. He refused the things he used to love and only wanted to eat Kale which is not an option for him to get everyday since it’s high in calcium.

Thanks everyone.

[BinkyBunny]

I hope the bladder stone moves down to the bladder soon. I know that getting a stone out anywhere else besides the bladder can be risky. My bunny Jack had a stone in his bladder and it was surgically removed — he recovered very well. So I’m keeping my fingers crossed that stone moves soon. it

As far as tricks to get your bunny to drink more water — My vet suggested to doing a juice water ,mix.  However, Jack only had bladder stone and sludge issues.  . I went through all kinds of juices and finally got one he liked. It was apple juice but you have to get one that is ONLY apple juice, no added vitamins or calcium or sugars. Organic brands are good about just using apples only and no additives. My vet told me to first start with a 50/50 juice water mix then get it down to 10% juice. Jack drank a ton of water which helped alot. HOWEVER….PLEASE TALK TO YOUR VET ABOUT THIS before trying it. Because if there are real kidney issues here, this juice water could do more harm than good. Also, I wouldn’t recommend it for a bunny who may be sick and be vulnerable to stasis issues. The suggestion I made are is for you to discuss with your vet.

[bunnyluvr]

Any update on Bert?

[BertBun]

Sorry for not giving an update sooner.
Sadly we had to put Bert to sleep last night.  My spouse and I are so upset.  
After his original hospitalization he seemed to be doing slightly better, we did a 28 day treatment for EC and checked his Kidney Function every two weeks. At first he seemed asymptomatic.  The continually got worse but he still seemed to be in good spirits.  We were giving him SubQ fluids every other day. Last week we took him for his checkup and he bloodwork showed that his renal values were worse and that he was anemic.  We started him on a medicine that would hopefully increase his red blood cell count, also a pepcide type medicine.  He also lost a lot of weight so we started giving him critical care twice daily.  He took a turn for the worse over the weekend and refused to eat much at all on his own, and would not drink.  His breather also got more and more labored.  He seemed to be in a lot of discomfort and would hide in the back of his cage facing the wall.  Last night his breathing got worse and we talked to the vet and decided that sadly there was nothing more we could do.  

Bringing him to get put down was the hardest thing I ever had to do. Both mom and dad held him as he gave a quite cough and then fell asleep.  

It’s hard to say how much time he would have had if we did not decide to put him down, but he seemed to be in a lot of pain, his breathing was very labored and he showed no interest in eating or drinking.  I just hope he is happy on the other side of the bridge.  

[Sarita]

I’m so sorry. You did so much for him and he was lucky that you took such wonderful care of him. Making those decisions are so hard. I know he will be happy on the other side of the bridge where he will be whole again.

Hugs to you and your spouse.

[jerseygirl]

Please accept my condolences. It takes a lot of courage and love for a pet to do what you have done, giving them release.
*Binky Free Bert!*

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