Additional Litter Training Tips?

[clop]

Hi!

Thank so much for the wealth of information on this site.  It’s been so helpful!

I’m the proud new owner of a beautiful 5 month old boy.  His name is Buns, and he is a 9.6 lb broken orange French Lop.  I’ve had the pleasure of his company for a month now.  He lives in his 30″x42″ cage, with the intention of roaming all over the bunny proofed room once he is litter trained.  He was just neutered a few days ago. 

Buns is having a hard time being litter trained. I’ve read the litter training article, here, on rabbit.org, and well, everything that comes up in google.  I’ve previously owned a Holland Lop, who was very easily litter trained – in less than a week?  Sadly, he passed away last year.  I’ve also helped my former roommate successfully train her bun.  Buns is just more stubborn!  He currently has 2 pans in his cage, lined with Care Fresh, and topped with some hay.

I’m having the following issues (they vary):

– he pees in one spot (corner of cage in his pan), but poops elsewhere (next to his food bowl).  I always pick up all his pellets and put in in the pan.

– he pees in his pan 50% of the time on his own.  The other times I need to push him into the pan when I see him raise his tail.

– sometimes he will randomly pee in the cage (middle, side, etc)

Is this because he is just taking longer to learn, because he is still a baby/adolescent?

Lastly – he seems to LOVE the metal cage floor… He sprawls out contentedly on it, jumps around etc.  I know wire floors are a big no no (I had ordered palacepet bedding that hadn’t arrived) but once I put down the synthetic fleece, the only places he lies are in his pans.  For a time before the bedding came, he consistently pooped next to his bowl, and peed in his pan.  Now he poops and pees everywhere sometimes.

Thanks so much for any help or advice you may have!

ps.  Has the galvanized wire issue been resolved?  Is it unhealthy for rabbits?

 

 

[jerseygirl]

Hi Clop
I think you’ll find a great improvement now that he’s neutered! Takes some time to come into effect with the hormones and all.

Did Buns like the cool of the wire flooring? Maybe you could line the floor with vinyl or ceramic tile, even sheet metal like a large cookie tray. Some bunnies get confused if there’s litter or bedding over the whole cage and just go to the toilet everywhere.

[clop]

Hi Jerseygirl!

Thanks for your response.  lol I’m certainly hoping for an improvement!  Thankfully I’m quite patient, however my dh is not. 

That’s a great observation – I’ll tinker with tiles.  He’s fine on the carpet, and in his pan, perhaps the fleece is too warm or furry for his taste? 

He’s just pooped a large pile of pellets next to his food bowl (while eating), and then hopped into his pan to pee.  As long as he is peeing in the pan, should I be content?  Is he too young to hold his poo while he eats?  I know Mr Lop (my beloved last rabbit) and Bunny (roommate’s) and all others are capable of eating, then hopping a few steps to poop in their pans.  Is there something funny with Buns or is this a case of where a dose of patience is required?

He LOVES sleeping in his larger pan (the one he pees in).  I’m putting his poo in the other smaller one beside it (that end of the cage holds 2 pans).  Should I instead put the poops in the pan he pees in?  I’m just afraid that’s an awful amount of poo to lie beside!  He’s peed in both corners of the cage.  He primarily pees in the larger pan, but sometimes pees in the corner next to it (why I put in the small pan).  I had hoped he would sleep in the larger and pee/poop in the smaller, but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Thanks again!  Apologies for my rambling!

 

[Dave]

It took me a lot of patience to litter train Steve unneutered.  I put treats in his litter box but they always made his stool soft, so that was rough.  Apple didn’t work, yogurt/alfalfa drops, oats, etc.  I have found dried cranberries work wonderfully.  I would put them in his litterboxes around and he eventually kept the pee in his box.  He would still poop outside it, but a dust buster cleaned that up really quick.

[Beka27]

welcome here! i’m not sure if i’ve seen you around before. i am so sorry to hear about the lop you lost. that is always very hard…

the problem with softer bedding (fleece and blankets) is that they don’t always distinguish it as being different from their litter. plus if they pee on it, the moisture gets sucked up. i agree that a solid bottom might be a better idea… linoleum or tiles cut to fit the space. it’s normal for some buns to mark their territory with poop. the main thing is that the pee goes where it belongs. they also like to poop where they eat, so hay in the litterbox will usually help.

i am concerned about the size of his cage. as a very large bun, he needs a bigger area than what he has currently. that cage is okay temporarily, but have you given any thought to constructing a NIC grid condo or getting an exercise pen as a permanent home for him?

[clop]

Hi SteveAndPepper!  Thanks for sharing your experience.  I’ve been slowly introducing treats to Buns, he tolerates apple slivers and raisin,, loves bananas, and ignores carrots!  Is you bunny now pooping in the pan, or still outside?  I totally agree with you – pee in the pan, poop outside is fine… much easier to whisk away

Hi Beka27, Thank you for your reply!  I see, he may be confused with the bedding.  Last night I’ve temporarily put plastic floor covering sheets over the fleece.  His ‘routine’ for the past few days seems to be this – He pees in his pan (favorite corner) 5 times, and in every other corner once.  He eats hay in the pan, but the most he’s pooped there is 10 or so pellets.  All of his poo comes out while he’s eating his food. 

My intention is to have him run around the house once he’s trained, as my last bun did.  The cage will be his ‘base’ where he gets quiet time, eats, and hopefully poops & pees.  The largest pens that I have seen are 48×48, only 6 inches longer than his, though 18 inches wider.  lol Wait til I tell you about the NIC condo.  His first dwelling was indeed a NIC condo, which I secured with zip ties.  I did not put a grid floor in, it was basically 4 walls of grids.  Buns is VERY active at dawn (6-8 am).  He manage to flip over/knock down the enclosure by the the third day.  We made the mistake of letting him out too often too early, and he loves being in the room, running around.  He runs and throws his body weight against the wall of the cage.  After we secured it by adding in a grid floor, he would gnaw the walls, quite aggresively.  The cubes are quite large, and he can fit his mouth around the opening.  I was afraid he would chip or break his teeth on them, so I ordered a semi-custom cage from kwcages that I found on the hrs site.  The opening on this new one is smaller, he can’t get a grip with his teeth.  Should I go back to the NIC condos after he’s a free range rabbit? 

Yes it was a difficult time when Mr Lop passed away.  I am fine now, but still miss his terribly, and sometimes feel especially sad.  With the new bun, I find myself comparing their behaviors, personailities etc.  I think Mr Lop was the perfect rabbit!  Easily trained, handsome, smart, and so so affectionate!  Buns is more mellow.  He doesn’t seek petting nor attention like Mr Lop did.  In any case, I do love Buns enormously and know all rabbits are different. 

Thanks so much for everyone’s response, I really appreciate the help!

If eventually he only pees in the pan, but continues to poo by his food bowl, should I call it a day?  When I asked my (hrs recommended) vet this, she said bunnies can hold it to poo in the pan, and that Buns was capable of being trained.

Any updates on the dangers (if any to rabbits) of galvanize steel?

 

 

 

[Beka27]

yes, free run is great with proper bun-proofing! it sounds like you’ve got your hands full with his antics! what an energetic bun. hopefully he will calm down a little bit as his homones decrease…

have you thought about moving the food closer to his litterbox, or even attaching a feeding bowl right above? if he can only eat while in the litterbox, you’re going to catch most of those poos just by proximity.

so he will use the box at first, but after awhile he stops? have you tried more frequent litterbox changes, daily or even twice daily? it doesn’t have to be a full change, maybe just scooping out the wet parts. some buns will stop using a box once it becomes too soiled.

[clop]

lol yes he is energetic alright!  Unfortunately for us, mostly in the morning while we’re still sleeping.  This won’t be an issue once he’s out and about, he can scoot anywhere he wishes, as fast and loud as he wants. 

I did think about moving the food bowl, or just letting him poo where he wants (so much easier picking up too than cleaning soaked in pee), but after the vets, “he should be able to hold it while he eats and then poo in his pan” remark, I thought I’d continue with it. 

I clean the box every morning.  You’re right perhaps not enough.  I will scoop out the wet parts before bed.  I am confused whether he thinks it’s too soiled.  He’s sending mixed messages.  Is it possible it’s too soiled to pee in but not too soiled to sleep in?  At night, he’ll try to pee different corners of the cage.  I am semi successful at intercepting him, though can’t once I’m asleep.  However, he will continue to sleep/lie in his pan.  lol maybe he thinks his pan is clean enough to contine sleeping in, but knows any new/more pee will make it too dirty and hence he pees elsewhere? 

Thanks so much for your suggestions, they’ve been great! 

[Dave]

Steve still poops around his 1 litterbox outside his cage.  He still poops on his towel inside his cage.  He is only 2 days off getting neutered so we will see if that changes.  I make it a point to give him a cranberry whenever I see him hop into his litterbox to pee. I can dust buster up poop, but I can’t do that with pee, so I don’t mind the poop so much.  It only takes 10 seconds to clean. 

 

Pepper still poops on the bathroom rug (near her 2nd litterbox) when she is grooming herself and still poops just outside of her main litterbox.  She is 3 months off being spayed.  We are unsure why, but when 95% of everything makes it into the litterbox and only 5% of poo is outside, we figure it’s acceptable!   My girlfriend tells me she was difficult to litter train before being spayed. 

[clop]

Hi SteveAndPepper!

Hopefully Steve will continue to improve with his poo, it must be nice that he pees in the pan.  Wow, Pepper’s pretty impressive with a 95% success rate!  Good luck with your buns! I look forward to reading updates on their progress

[jerseygirl]

Don’t know about this, so if anyone thinks it a no-no, please say! Maybe take the litter out of the second box. Keep the one he mostly uses in the preferred spot and if he likes sleeping in a box, give him an empty one to loll in. (???)  I can see Buns likes to sleep in it from you avatar!!! Cute!

[clop]

Hiya jerseygirl!  Thanks, wish I could take better pics, that was one of many.  Love your avatar too!  Your bun is too cute!  I’ve never seen a bun with ears like that.  (S)he looks so smart & inquisitive!

That’s a good idea; I think he likes to sleep on smoother surfaces – wire floor, carpet, plastic covering over fleece, or carefresh.  So we did end up taking out the second box early this morning.  At 2 am, we awoke to the sound of furious scratching/banging.  He alternated scratching the high wall of the box, and using his teeth to lift and drop the box. 

Today he’s peed twice outside when we let him out for exercise, and twice inside the cage (not in his pan).  For him there might be a fine line of the pan being too clean, or too dirty.  Cleaning once a day is not enough (if he pees in it consistently), though lol I won’t need to clean it today. 

Before I put in the fleece, and he was just on the wire floor, for several days he consistently peed in his pan, and only sometimes outside the cage.  (I did have a problem with poo).  Now is poo and pee habits are off.  I’m hoping things will quiet down as soon as his hormones normalize (was just neutered earlier this week) and when he gets used to his rug or I replace it.  I am hoping the fleece works out though, because it absorbs/minimizes much of the clanging noises in the early morning hours when he’s running and jumping around in the cage.

 

[KatnipCrzy]

OK, that little “teaser pic” of him in your avatar is too cute- but we really are going to need to see MORE bunny soon.  He looks so darn cute- the little that his royal highness will graciously show us.  (He looks like he knows he is cute- that is why he can be so relaxed- everyone flocks to him to admire him).

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

You know you might consider cleaning the litter pan less. Since every mess he makes in the pan or out of it, gets cleaned right away there’s no motivation to go in the right spot…try leaving the pan with poops and pee in it. When you clean up messes outside of the pan, put poops into the pan instead of cleaning them up. He might get the hang of it like that.

He’s very cute by the way!!

[clop]

Hi KatnipCrzy! yes, he is a cutie, he’s been beaming from all the lovely compliments here.  He’s even converted some previously non bunny lovers into admirers!  I’ll post more pics soon – I’m trying to take non potty pan sleeping pics, but I’m not quick enough to capture him running about, or skilled enough to capture all his handsomeness.

Hi Kokaneeandkahlua!  Thanks for the tips, I really appreciate them!  For a while I was cleaning up everything right away (unless he peed overnight), and cleaning the pan once a day.  When that didn’t work, (I was afraid the pan was too dirty for him), I cleaned the pan after he peed (I would scoop only, and leave a little pee-litter behind).  To be honest – I think I’ve alternated every few days or so – maybe I should try one method for at least  a week?  The past few days he’s been great – peeing in his pan.  I think a big part of it was that he didn’t like the fleece mat, which I’ve partially removed.  However this morning/last night he peed in the same spot he poops in (right next to his food bowl).  Because he’s peed there in the past, I’ve rearranged the flooring to his cage.  In the back left quarter is his poo pan, and on the right quarter is a fleece mat.  The middle is covered with plastic, and the front (where he poops) is covered with those plastic mats with holes so the pee/poop falls through. 

On the plus side, since he’s been neutered, he no longer drops poo everywhere he runs outside now, though he does try to pee often.

Sometimes he only pees once or twice a day (a large amount).  Is this normal?

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Sounds like your on the right path, and soon he’ll get it!!

I *think* my buns only pee a couple times a day too? Not too sure, but whatever is *normal* for your bun is normal. Changes are what you want to watch for

[clop]

Hi!  I have an update!  A happy update

Buns is littertrained!  6 weeks after coming home, he is potty trained; I am so relieved.  He now poos and pees in his pan, and when he’s out and about outside his cage/home base, he comes running back in to pee in his pan. 

What was the magic solution?  or rather what was the problem?  ME!

I’ve rearranged Buns’ cage.  It doesn’t really make that much sense, and it’s awkward, but it’s how he likes it.  The pan is now situated under his food bowl, and partially blocks the cage door.  The standard tip of  “placing hay in the pan so he can nibble while he poops” should be amended for him to “eat a full meal while he poops” lol.  I did move his food bowl elsewhere, and he still went back to that corner to poo.  I put another pan in the original corner, but he hasn’t used it, nor has he peed anywhere else.  He threw me off in the beginning because he peed in virtually every corner of the cage, but he was new, and not used to his environment.  Then he picked two, then changed again, then settled.  That confused me as the two buns before him pretty much started in the same spot right away.  He’s also now used to the fleece, and sprawls over it.

Thanks so much for everyone’s advice and support, I really appreciated all you input!  To anyone else potty training, if your bun doesn’t follow all the norms, have patience!

 

[Lightchick]

Yay, Clop! That’s so exciting! (My boyfriend is about to get his girl-bun with the WORST litterbox habits in the world spayed, and then we have to try to litterbox train her, so it’s very encouraging to hear a success story with a difficult trainee! Our other buns are just naturally clean, so she’s been difficult to understand…)

But I totally agree with KatnipCrzy! Where are the pictures? You should introduce yourself and Buns in the Lounge, so those of us who don’t get to check in on the other forums everyday can meet you!

[clop]

lol I posted too soon! After a period of impeccable potty habits, Buns in the last few days has:

Peed on the bed
Maneuvered into a tight space and peed in a cubby
Pooped (a huge pile ~20 pellets) in the middle of the room
I took out pan #2 in his cage, and he peed there soon after (he hadn’t peed there for 3 weeks when there was a pan there)

Argh! I jinxed myself lol. In his defense, I think the peeing on the bed (he’d been exploring the bed for the past few weeks with no accidents) was because we annoyed/bothered/deterred him from digging his fav spot on the carpet, and the other pee/poo incident was when we had friends over, and he was overwhelmed/forgot his habits.

In any case, we’re still working on it.

Hiya Lightchick! Sorry this isn’t the best success story YET! Hopefully her habits will be better now that she is spayed. It’s comforting to know other not so naturally clean bunnies huh? Buns is pretty difficult to understand indeed! I wish you and your boyfriend success, good luck, and patience! lol feel free to pass along any “magic” tips or pointers if you come across any!

[jerseygirl]

You may have taken the pan out too early. They can get a bit funny about their space, so avoid changing it too much until he’s really got hang of the litter box. Even then, any changes you make to what they view as there area has to be done gradually and careful else you face their disapproval!. Maybe not give him too much freedom until he has really got the litter box thing down? Also, it’s still only 2 weeks since the neuter right? Still too early for marked results IMO. Keep persisting!

[Author]

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