adding baby female to bonded (fixed) pair

[moonpepper]

hi all,

I am relatively new to the world of rabbits and brand new to this forum but have taken on my new life as rabbit mom very seriously and have been doing a ton of reading and learning!. (I have raised my show/ working Rottweiler so am very familiar with time, training, dedication, etcetera!)

When my young holland lop doe Moon was about 3.5 months, we adopted a mate for her: Pepper, a 3.5 year old buck/neutered standard chinchilla rescue. They bonded quickly (though I would not say they are completely in love yet, but they’re getting there!).

She is now 4.5 months and was just spayed the other day.

A few days before spaying her we took in a beautiful little lilac otter 8 week old who-knows-what-breed from a neglect situation. At first I thought the young’n was a boy, but upon a more thorough sexing, I’ve come to find she’s a little girl. 

The three rabbits all met pre-Moon’s spay. At this time, Pepper was indifferent, while Moon chased a fair bit (no biting that I know of, no growling). I was able to break things up with body language and could easily separate the two after I let them have a short chase.

Since Moon’s been home I have not done any more bonding work and do not plan to until she is fully healed. The little one, Juniper (aka Percy) has her own room two storeys up from the pair.

Okay, so now the questions.

I know I have my work cut out for me bringing in a third bun, let alone a second female. But I think this situation is workable.

I know all the basics (neutral ground, etc) so here are my specifics:

1) would you suggest doing individual intros/sessions? I understand a drawback is bringing the scent back to the mate and causing a stir…

2) is there any significant advantage in waiting a few months altogether until the young’n is spayed? She is so young now I can’t imagine her hormones would play much of a role but I don’t know enough to be certain.

ALL information is very welcome and I would be excited to read long answers. The two questions above were just the first I could think of, I’m sure there are more….

[Beka27]

I would get the two older buns bonded first and allow that bond to “settle” for the next 4-5 months, at which time the baby can be spayed and given a month to heal. Don’t do any bonding work with all three until the baby is spayed and healed for at least a month. Depending on how “delicate” the initial bonded pair still is, you might have to wait even longer (even a year old) before introducing the youngest. Don’t rush things. There is absolutely no benefit to trying to add in an unspayed female. Any bonding work you go through will be for naught once the hormones kick in, and you might create friction between them that isn’t easily forgotten.

It sounds like she’s fine where she is away from the other two. If she bonds eventually, awesome! If not, you could just have a downstairs pair and an upstairs single! You don’t HAVE TO make a trio… she can be perfectly content on her own.

[moonpepper]

Hi Beka, thanks for the reply.

I am not in any definite rush but the upstairs room can’t be a permanent solution, unfortunately.

A question about hormones, though. If a female is spayed at 4 months, would that not prevent hormone-related issues? My understanding is this is when they are JUST barely beginning to become hormonal.

[Beka27]

There are puberty related behaviors and there are age related behaviors. Altering will cause a gradual decline in hormonal behaviors, but rabbits may still act nutty until about a year old.

[moonpepper]

 Hi again,

What I was getting at was this. You said, “Any bonding work you go through will be for naught once the hormones kick in, and you might create friction between them that isn’t easily forgotten. ”

 

But if hormones have been nipped in the bud, are you saying I’m looking at problems regardless because she will be a bratty teen?

 

sigh!

 

 

[Beka27]

IMO, 4 months is too young to spay. Some vets may do it that young, but developmentally, it isn’t a good idea. They need hormones for growth (just like human teenagers do). Vets usually will not do it until a bit later (about 6 months) when the hormones are in full swing. Males are neutered younger, but they also become hormonal younger so it all even out. This is not to mention the fact that the female spay is more invasive and recovery is tougher on such a young bunny.

So yes, hormones will be in play if the rabbit is spayed at an appropriate time.

Friction can happen at anytime (before and/or after altering) and does not have to be related to hormones, but this is usually the case. If the spay/neutered rabbits fight with HER due to HER being unspayed, she may form a bad opinion of them, or vice verse. Hormones are a major problem, but are not the only reason rabbits will scuffle.

As a general rule, we suggest all bunnies involved in bonding be spay/neutered for at least a solid month before bonding exercises start. Are there exceptions to every rule and do people make their own decisions on this? Of course. But I’m just sharing what we recommend across the board. :o)

[MoveDiagonally]

I agree with everything Beka said, it’s really great advice/info!

If your goal is an eventual trio I would focus on getting Moon and Pepper 100% bonded first (after she heals). Juniper shouldn’t really be introduced again until she’s spayed and Moon and Pepper have a cemented bond.

That said, I know it’s easy to get really excited about having a little herd of happy bunnies running around. I have a bonded pair, a single adult, and two single babies (8 and 9 weeks old). I eventually plan on bonding the babies and adult single together and can’t wait to see a bunch of English Lops gallivanting around. But 4 months until my youngest girl can be spayed so I have to remind myself to keep being patient.

Welcome to BB! (everyone here loves pictures) I love all your bunny’s names.

[Deleted User]

I agree with waiting till the new doe is spayed. . . . I was young and innocent with two spayed, bonded does at home when the pet store manager asked me to please “rescue” a doe that had been purchased 1 year earlier at Easter was being “returned”, which I did. . . . What I did not expect was that Maddie’s (the new doe’s) hormones would drive anywhere near the friction it did. She was utterly determined to be the dominant doe; one of the others was also determined to be the dominant doe. I mistakenly thought time would resolve the matter but finally got it when there was some serious, blood-drawing biting (gosh, I still feel terrible about letting it go so far!!!!!). The amazing thing is that as soon as Maddie was spayed and healed, all three got along just fine with no issues about dominance. You just can’t tell with those hormones!

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