Abscesses and pasturella

[Laura]

Hi,

New here.  I’m usually on the Ivillage bunny boards (which is how I found you).

 

I’m looking for advice from anyone that has experience with pasteurella and/or abscesses.

 

A few months ago one of my rabbits had 3 abscesses in his head.  The vet lanced and drained them, and put Cinnamon on a antibiotic pill.  Then Cinnamon was switched to an antibiotic injection.  After a month and a half Cinnamon was taken off of antibiotics.  2 weeks later one of the abscesses came back.  It was also lanced and drained, and Cinnamon was put back on daily injections (which my husband learned to do).

 

The vet is sort of rabbit savvy, but he is all that is in the area.  He says that the abscess could be from a bad tooth root.  But he couldn’t see anything on the x-ray.  So he is not sure.  Vet says that the injections are cheaper than surgery (and why have surgery to remove a tooth when we are not sure it is the tooth causing the problem).  Vet also said that it is pasteurella, but I am not convinced that it is.  I am not convinced because 1) the others didn’t catch it and 2) Cinnamon had no pasteurella symptoms.

 

So I think my next step is to find a more rabbit savvy vet, which I found on the House Rabbit website, who is about an hour away.  I don’t want this to come back again, and I don’t want to be giving him injections for the rest of his life.

 

Have any of you ever dealt with this before?

Thanks,

Laura

[BinkyBunny]

Ah yes, iVillage. I used to be a CL over there. WELCOME!

Sorry for the lack of replies so far, but our site was down off and on Thursday!   But now it’s back up (keeping my fingers crossed it stays up)

Anyhoo, my Rucy has had issues with abscesses in her jaw.  She went through two surgeries to remove infected teeth, but then it came back again and Rucy was on medication for over six months before they discovered the problem  was a left over tooth root that was still growing.   My vet actually did surgery with another vet that specialized in pet dentistry to try and nip this whole thing in the bud, and it was only  when they actually went in did they discover this crazy root.

Since that surgery, Rucy has been abscess free. (it’s been well over a year!)   Before that, when she was on the antibiotics for so long, some problems began to arise:  one antibiotic wouldn’t work anymore, or another would cause her to become sick from long term use, and another was outrageously expensive. 

I found the needle injections to be the easiest and the least stressful on her than the oral injections.  Reason being is that the injection is given in the back part  of her neck skin which doesn’t have as much sensitivity.  Most of the time we’d just pet her and inject her and she wouldn’t even notice.   This helped her feel less stress which has to help in the healing process. Also, if the type of antiobiotics you may be given in the future does not come in needle injection form, then if they are able to flavor the med, that can help with the oral injection. (the least stressful path is better for healing)

Pasteurella can cause ongoing abscess issues too, so it’s really difficult to tell.  Does your bunny have any drooling issues or wetness around the mouth? Do her teeth look fine?  Where are her abcesses exactly?  How long have you had your rabbit?  What’s Cinnamon’s background – like where’d he come from, what was his health like when you first got him? 

I definitely think it couldn’t hurt to search for another rabbit savvy vet for a second opinion.  

Just know that abscesses around the jaw are harder to treat.  I mean even my vet, who is one of the top rabbit savvy vets in the country sought out a specialist to help her try and get rid of the problem once and for all. 

[Laura]

Thanks for your reply.

Cinnamon and his friends were rescued last year, in the Reno Rescue by Best Friends Animal Shelter.  There were over 1000 rabbits in a woman’s backyard.  The shelter collected them all, gave them medical care and had them all fixed.  My buns live outside (because the shelter said it would be best for them), in a rabbitat that my husband and father-in-law built.  It is 10×15, about the size of a small bedroom.  All 4 were living together, but since Cinnamon got sick at the beginning of the year, he has been separated.  But now the rabbitat has been divided and they are 2 and 2, long story about how that happened, I won’t go into it.

Vet says his teeth look healthy.  There is no drooling, or discharge of any kind, never has been either.

When Cinnamon was sick the first time he had 3 abscesses.  One on the left (can’t remember if it was jawline or lower), and 2 on the right, which were behind his eye and the other at his jawline.  The one behind his eye made his eye protrude out so far that he couldn’t close it.  The doc also wasn’t able to drain that one right away, but eventually did.

Cinnamon has loved all of his medication.  The liquid pain med and antibiotic that we first gave him, he loved, I just put the syringe to his mouth and he licked it.  He loved the pills too because I put some flavored stuff on it and he thought it was a treat.  He flinches when he gets his shots though.

So far we have spent over $800 in medical bills.  A few people have told me to put him down, which I can’t do when he is so full of life.

I would attach photos of the buns and rabbitat, but they are too large and I don’t know how to change that.

Is there anyone on this forum from WA that can recommend a rabbit savvy vet?  Right now all I have to go by are other websites that recommend vets.

Thanks so much,

Laura

[MooBunnay]

Hi! Welcome to Binky Bunny! Unfortunately I do not know any rabbit vets in WA, but I found a couple listed on online. These recommendations are a little old but maybe they could be helpful? There is a rabbit dentis here in So Cal as well, I will look up her information and see if I can get you any further help!

Dr. Michael Baker
St. Francis 24 Hr. Animal Hospital
12010 NE 65th St.
Vancouver, WA 98682
(360) 253-5446
Recommended by: Suzanne Stark
Comments by Suzanne: Carrie liked him and we had a good long talk and he seems to know his stuff. The pricing was very reasonable ($28 per office visit, no matter what time of day or night) and they are open 24 hr a day. So there is always someone there when you need them. I really liked how he handled her abscessed foot.
Submitted: 9/02
Need directions?

Dr. Henry Eberhardt
Alpine View Veterinary Clinic
16408 – 161st Ave. SE
Snohomish, WA 98290
(360) 794-6662
Recommended by: EndlssSea@aol.com
Comments: Dr. Henry Eberhardt is an excellent rabbit vet. He has houserabbits himself, and knows their care inside & out.
Submitted: 6/01

[wendyzski]

PLEASE see a rabbit-saavy vet ASAP. 

Many of the rescued Reno buns are turning out to have e. cunniculi and another parasite that I can’t remember.  These can afect the immune system which might make the abcesses harder to treat.

(And before anyone jumps on her for having these buns outside, this is what is recommended for these buns.  They have been feral all their lives, and would not adjust to being indoor pets.  They were fixed and then adopted out in small groups so they could live in a "warren" of their own)

[Gravehearted]

there’s a rescue group in WA called Rabbit Haven and their site lists several vets they personally have worked with and recommend. Rescues deal with many rabbit health problems so are often a great source to find a good vet. You could also call Rabbit Haven and they may have a recommendation for the vet best qualified for your bunny’s health issues.

http://www.rabbithaven.org/BunnyBasics/veterinary_referrals.htm

 

I really hope your bunnies will be feeling much better soon.

[wendyzski]

Rabit Haven was one of the rescues that hit hit hard by the health problems that the Reno rabbits had, so they should be able to give you good advice. 

Be prepared though  – the owner lost a couple of her personal pet buns because of contagion from the supposedly healthy Reno buns and is understandably bitter about it.

[Laura]

Rabbit Haven is where I picked up my rabbits.  Since Best Friends was shipping so many buns to Rabbit Haven, Best Friends asked if I would meet the truck at Rabbit Haven to pick up my rabbits.  I met the Rabbit Haven owner.  I emailed her shortly after and she didn’t respond, but someone else that works there did.  I have tried to keep in touch with them, but they haven’t replied to my emails.  A few months ago I did ask how their Reno buns were doing, I was told that most were doing well and some had died (can’t remember the number, 2 or 3), but it was to be expected since they received over 100 rabbits.  The truck drivers were amazed none died during transport.  One of the reasons I emailed Rabbit Haven is because I wanted their advice on how to deal with fleas, they never did answer my question.  I think I had told them about my sick Cinnamon, but don’t remember now.  They never mentiond anything about their indoor buns getting sick from the outdoor buns, how sad.

Anyway one of the other reasons I wasn’t convinced that Cinnamon had pasturella is because the others didn’t get it (at the time all 4 were together).

Best Friends has a very good adoption process, and I had to give 2 references (that were called) and I had to build the rabbitat to their guidelines, and someone had to come over and approve it.  They are spoiled and cared for very much.

The 2nd time Cinnamon got an abscess I brought him in the house, because he could not be around Bambi with an open wound.  Cinnamon adpted so well to the house, he lived in the guest bathroom (being in a cage does not work for him!).  He used his litter box and didn’t chew on anything, he didn’t even care about the cats.  It was amazing.  I put him back outside because Bambi was lonely, and when I put her back in with the other 2 boys they fight.  So the rabbitat is now divided in half, 2 on one side 2 on the other.

I wouldn’t have outdoor buns again.  There is always a problem (too hot, too cold, rain, wind, bees, fleas, etc.) and it is just too stressful for me.

Before I got the buns Best Friends did tell me about  some of the other Reno Rabbits having Encephalitozoon cuniculi (E. cuniculi ).

I will email Rabbit Haven again and ask for a vet recomendation.  I may just go to one of the vets listed on rabbit.org.

Thanks so much for your help and advice.

Laura

[Laura]

moobunnay-thanks for the vet info, but those are too far for me.

OT: wendyzski-I was born and raised in Schaumburg.

This is where I picked up my buns:

http://www.rabbithaven.org/Reno%20Bunnies.htm

I was there when they were unloading that truck!  My buns look like the ones in the pics!  My DH and I drove 2 hours to get them, and 2 hours back home. 

I’m in the process of sending Rabbit Haven a box of things they need. 

~Laura

[Laura]

I figured it out and posted pictures in the Forum.

~Laura

[BinkyBunny]

IF they test positive for e.cuniculi – There is a new drug out there called Ponazural. My Bailey, who has always been e.cuniculi positive, but just recently showed symptoms with weakened hind quarters, took it and she has made huge improvements.

What also could be happening is because of the situation these bunnies came from, it may take time for them to build up their immune system to fight infection properly, and maybe the one that is really suffering may have an even further weakened immune system. I know with Bailey when she first came into our home, she was a neglect case and was thin and undernourished. She got just a slight litttle nick of a bite on her hip and it turned into an abscess.

It sounds like the treatment your bunny has been given is what many vets will do. They will try a less invasive procedure first and see if antiobiotics clear it up before they have a bunny go into surgery. If it comes back, then they sometimes decide the bunny should be on meds for even longer, or try different meds. Most of the time, they wait for surgery unless it refuses to go away or gets worse quickly.

It is still smart though to find a rabbit savvy vet you can trust, so you don’t have to double guess and worry so much.

Also, here are some articles about abcesses which may be helpful to you. http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rabrefs.html#abs

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