I’m scared… this is getting worse and worse…

[Cinnamon Bun]

Hay, everyone. I’ve been going through a lot with Binkie recently, and it seems to be getting worse. I recently made a thread for her cecal dysbiosis that doesn’t seem to be improving, and I’ve done everything that was suggested. Binkie has always had cecal problems throughout her life (two years), but it seems to be getting a lot worse now, and I’m really worried about it. We’ve taken her to the vet to get a professional opinion – he gave her a quick checkup, took a fecal sample and weighed her. He said everything seems healthy. He gave me an antidiarrheal antibiotic called spectinomycin and told me to put it in her water for three days, but I haven’t given it to her because I don’t trust it, and she didn’t have diarrhea. Instead, I’ve cut out her veggies, pellets and treats so I can figure out what’s causing the problem. Three weeks later, and no improvement. And she’s acting completely normal. But as I went to clean out her litterbox just now, I noticed some of her poop pellets are oval shaped, dark and some are liquidy. I’m starting to get really concerned about this, and I have a feeling this isn’t diet related. Something horrible is wrong with my baby, and I’m scared…

[Bam]

Spectinomycin is on Medirabbit’s list of antibiotics that are NOT rabbit safe.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Unsafe_medication/dangerous_antibiotics.htm

When my bun Vilde had tummy problems after stasis he was given metronidazole (brand name Flagyl, among others) for 5 days. It’s bunny safe. Maybe you could ask your vet if you can try that?

[Cinnamon Bun]

OMG, thanks Bam. I just trusted my gut and look… it’s unsafe. You can’t trust any vets here. I don’t think are ANY actual rabbit-savvy vets. Some are better than others but they still have very limited knowledge. I have actually used spectinomycin before years ago on both my buns (one with an abscess, and one with tummy trouble). It worked on my bun Binkie for her abscess – she healed gloriously and was okay. I’m not sure if it worked for my past bun, though. I’m getting rid of it, and asking my vet for something else that’s rabbit-safe. Is metronidazole a probiotic? (I’m not sure what a probiotic is…lol) What will it help with if I give it to her?

[pinkiemarie]

I’m sorry she still isn’t improving but thankfully the mods here are really well informed to help fill in gaps when you don’t have access to a rabbit specialist veterinarian!

[Cinnamon Bun]

Thank you @pinkiemarie ♥  This is a stressful situation, and I’m always having to keep monitoring her and cleaning her off… I really hope it starts to improve. I have a question though; Should I take her back to the vet? Or should I give her a probiotic and keep on dealing with it myself?

[Wick & Fable]

You can always search MediRabbit as a reliable place to identify what is OK and not for rabbits. Typically I’ll google Medirabbit and the medication name. From Medirabbit, metronidazole is another antibiotic.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[pinkiemarie]

I would at least call the vet to get a safe prescription and ask if they feel that they need to see her again.

[Bam]

Mentronidazole is a bunny safe antibiotic that is effective on bacteria that dont need oxygen to thrive. It’s typically given for persistent tummy trouble that does not respond to standard treatment such as a hay only diet.

You can give a probiotic too, a few hours before or after the antibiotic. Probiotics are bacteria and, in the case of buns, yeast (saccharomyces cerevisiae), that help restore the good gut bacteria. Some of the good bacteria are sensitive to antibiotics, hence the need for a waiting period of a cpl hours between the distribution of antibiotics and the probiotics. Benebac is a a type of probiotics that are suitable for buns. It’s available in many parts of the world.

Medirabbit lists unsafe antibiotics from reports of adverse reactions. That doesnt mean all buns will have adverse reactions. Likewise, their list of safe antibiotics does not guarantee that there will be no adverse reactions in any buns -it just means the listed meds are unlikely to cause adverse effects in the majority of buns.

[DanaNM]

I’m so sorry she isn’t getting better. 🙁

I fostered a bun with what seemed to be chronic cecal dysbiosis and cecal dysautonomia (aka. disfunction of the nerves of the cecum). He would also produce these huge oval poops, and then these super gross soft dysbiosis poops. My vet was extremely rabbit savvy, and suspected that he may have something similar to cow pile syndrome (megacolon), as he had the coloration that tends to be linked to it.

We did try some different antibiotics with him and nothing helped, so we eventually settled on supportive care. He got 3 x per day cisapride (as he would oscillate between these gross splats of dysbiosis poops, followed by a huge build up of gas and stasis), plus pain meds, simethicone, and critical care if he wasn’t eating. We tried hay only, we tried different pellets, we tried no CC, we tried no veggies, nothing seemed to help. The vet also prescribed “poop shakes” from a healthy bunny. Ideally you mix cecals from a healthy bun into critical care, but regular poops are OK too. If you have other buns, you could try this as well. The risk of getting an illness is low if the bun is already around the other buns (vs. getting poop from a strange bun).

How old is your bun? Is she keeping weight on? The main concern long term with cecal disorders is they have trouble keeping weight on because they can’t eat their cecals. Some owners of megacolon/cow pile buns have some success with free-feeding pellets as well. Anecdotally, someone from my rescue swears by giving some alfalfa to help with cecal dysbiosis.

I think my main recommendation would be stability for her, keep up all the supportive care you can, and be sure to give a pain med. The most important things for establishing correct gut flora are fiber and moisture.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[DanaNM]

For reference (in case it’s helpful), here is the thread I made about Pippen (my dysbiosis foster): https://binkybunny.com/forums/topic/pippens-gi-stasis-cecal-dysbiosis-maybe-dysautonomiaaeaeae/

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Cinnamon Bun]

Chronic cecal dysbiosis…. oh no. Binkie’s two years old, and she’s been sick with different problems so she has dealt with weight loss several times, but she seems to be a healthy weight, now. She is eating her cecotropes, however, off of the floor. I just don’t know if I can keep up with it, and I really hope it’s not chronic. She’s an American Sable bun, so I’m not sure she has the megacolon coloration. Thanks for the link, Dana. I’ll try have a look at it. The thing is, she’s eating, drinking and acting fine, but she has gas on top of this. I’ve tried massaging her tummy, but it doesn’t seem to be working. Thanks to everyone who replied… help is much appreciated ♥ 

[DanaNM]

Is she is eating and acting fine, that’s great! Also great that she doesn’t have the “charlie” markings that are tied to the condition. My poor little guy was in a lot of pain and wouldn’t eat during gas episodes. There was another bunny at the time in the shelter that also had soft poop issues and he got daily cisapride as maintenance (he didn’t have the charlie markings either), so who knows what was going on with him.

There used to be a lot more members with expert knowledge on the forum, we lost a lot of members when we did the site update. 🙁 You might search for “cecal dysbiosis” or other similar terms in the forum to see if there are any cases similar to yours as well.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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