Abdominal Obstruction … again.

[Andi]

I hope I can type this out in a way it makes sense, today has been a hell day, not only for my own health but my “miracle bunny” Bo.
I typed up his story a while back on how he miraculously passed a huge mass/obstruction in his belly and no longer needed surgery, well it’s back and my bunny is not a happy camper, b/c he also has a pasterella overgrowth/infection as well.

We’re back on a high fiber and force feeding diet, in hopes to push this sucker through again. He’s drinking now, he was eating until this afternoon. I gave him his Baytril and then forced some critical care mix with apple/pineapple sauce and some homeo meds for stasis/upset tummy and immune system booster.  If he isn’t drinking enough I will also be giving him Sub-Q fluids, I need to get some pedialite as he loves drinking that from a syringe as well, so anything to encourage him to eat/drink.

Has anyone else ever had this issue? Specially one that has returned?

Bo is a 7yr old Rex, neutered (at 3.5yrs), he lives with one bonded spayed female and has recently been bonded to a paid of neutered males though they are not living together at the moment.

 

 

[Sarita]

Yes, many many times if I’m understanding what you are posting.

These are things that have worked for my rabbits:

1. Huge amounts of sub-q’s – we did 40 cc’s a day for Pepe and that’s alot but it helps get the obstruction hydrated to pass;

2. Pepcid AC to help lower the ph in the stomach;

3. Buprenex to help relieve pain or discomfort (really more discomfort) – the metacam may just upset the stomach and it is more of a non-streroid anti-inflammatory;

3. Hand feeding Critical Care;

4. We did reglan and cisapride but my vet and the board certified specialist weren’t entirely convinced this helps, but I feel it is.

I’ve had the same issue with Mango but not as much lately.

I think they don’t eat because they feel full rather than they are in pain.

[Sarita]

Also, Pepe and Mango both have had stasis for at least 2 weeks so don’t give up but be VERY AGGRESSIVE with the treatment.

We threatened with surgery but I would never ever do that since I’ve never ever heard of this being successful – I would put my rabbit to sleep before I would do this.

[KatnipCrzy]

I have dealt with GI stasis in Schroeder about 6 months ago- and Griffin just these past few days.

Griffin saw a really great vet that will see all my bunnies from now on- but she recommended and calculated for his weight of 8.8lbs- how much Critical Care and SQ fluids he needed- and he needed a lot.  He was to get almost a whole bag of Critical Care a day- he needed 3 Tablespoons of dry 4 times a day.  It was very daunting to mix the 3 tablespoons of dry with the water- it makes A LOT.  But we got both feedings into him Thur night after seeing the vet in the afternoon- and he started eating greens again that night.  His fluids for his weight were 120 mls- 4 times a day- that is about 1/2 a bag a day!  And she also put him on Metacam for pain.  We discussed other options if he did not respond such as adding Buprinex along with the Metacam (they work differently for pain so can be given together), adding Pepcid AC (famotidine) to change PH in stomach and even hospitalization with IV fluids.

The key is to keep the bunny well hydrated and to keep the gut moving- which the SQ fluids and CC does- and to help keep the pain manageable which the Metacam will do (and Buprinex also).

Fortunately Griff was swallowing the CC when syringe fed- otherwise I do not think I would have seen a huge improvement right away.  When I treated Schroeder and he refused to swallow the CC it was messy, awful and stressful to know I had to get the “food” into him to get the gut moving.  This vet said that if Griff did not swallow the CC- to keep at it- just feed him much more slowly.

I would be careful of how much Pedialyte you are using- it does add sugar and he might not be used to that and that can cause some GI upset as he is recovering also.  I did mix some Pedialyte with water- just used it to “color” the water and gave Griffin some with a syringe during the CC feedings to help get him to lick his lips and swallow any CC remaining in his mouth.

So I would check to make sure you are getting enough CC into him- some vets just say to give it- hand you the bag and let you figure it out- but there is some conversion from lbs to kg- and grams to Tablespoons in figuring out if I recall correctly.

[Andi]

Thanks everyone.
He eats very minimally himself, but will munch some hay or veggies and take a treat here and there but so little each time.
Trying to get ‘fresh’ pineapple juice is a pain, i wish i had a juicer. He’s not taking the papaya tablets, but I think I am going to blend up some fresh pineapple and mix it into the critical care. I bought a ‘fresh pineapple’ that had been cored, so it had some juice and I gave it to him this afternoon.

He is drinking a lot on his own, and peeing lots. I think he pooped when let him enjoy some time outside today. But watching for poop now.
I’m feeding him in small doses, so he’s more comfortable. I’m going to call my Vet clinic tomorrow and talk about pain meds, as I think this will really help him (he’s a big baby, and it worked great last time). My vet’s not in tomorrow which sucks.

I have cisapride, have not used it yet though.
He is still very alert, not ‘stretched out’ like he did in the past when he was un-comfy, but does not move around near as much, though i can get him to walk around a bit, and I do as i have found movement has helped with tummy troubles before.

[Sarita]

I’m not sure if the papaya or pineapple are really helpful. There isn’t any scientific proof that it really works.

Does he eat alot of hay?

[Andi]

An enzyme in pineapple juice breaks down hairballs, if canned it looses this enzyme in the process. Pineapple is also high in fibre. Papaya (also high in fiber) has papayan I think the enzyme is called, and it helps break down the mucous around the hariball.  I don’t have my text with me for the scientific words of it, but this is in a home sorta vet text i own. But it was also part of the regiment from the Vet (Fresh Pinapple Juice & Papaya tablets 3x a day).

Hay is the only thing (other then crasins) he is eating on his own at the moment. This bunny LOVES hay, which confuses me why he get’s these    He loves all bunnies and grooms everyone and is a huge chewer, but I believe he eats what he chews, so i think this is part of our problem

He drank a dish of water/pedialite mix this morning, and munched on some more hay. He’s not eating fresh grass or much cilantro, and didn’t eat the slice cucumber i gave him this morning. I’ll be going home on my lunch to check on him and see if he’s eating anymore or pooped. When he eats it’s like 3 or 4 bites. He hates being force fed and was attacking the syringe after feeding #2 last night LOL He is still very alert, and grooming himself.

 

[Deleted User]

Hay-eating is a good sign, though. Vibes for you and Bo!

[Sarita]

Papaya tablets have a very low percentage of the enzyme. Pineapple juice is good in that it hydrates the impaction and that is what you need to do.

Obstructions are slow down in the gut and you need to get the gut moving again which is where the sub-q fluids and hand feeding help.

The best thing to prevent an obstruction is really plenty of hay. And plenty of activity.

Has the vet checked his teeth lately? This can cause stasis as well.

[LittlePuffyTail]

{{{{{{{Vibes for Bo for a quick recovery}}}}}}

[Andi]

He is in great shape, good weight, good teeth, well next to now having pasturella (sigh). When this happened earlier this year we had a full blood pannel done and X-Rays everything came back great.

You say a slow down in the gut, that i undertsand but does that mean it’s not regularly a large round mass? As he has a large round mass you can feel (and was very visable the last X-Ray, why we thought it may have been a growth/tumor or sorts when it didn’t pass with the week of high fiber diet etc).
He had stasis after his neuter, was in the hospital for a couple days. That case was not a large mass, even my other bunnies who have had stasis have never had such a large impaction that we were able to feel pressing into his abdomen. That’s what makes this so different for me then the other cases of gas and stasis I have dealt with, either with my own or rescues I’ve care for from the shelter.

The Pepcid AC thing makes me super nervous, I wanted to talk it over with my vet. Is there a certain amount or type used? I am not keen on putting human medicine into my animals if they are not homeopathic.

We did the Sub-Q fluids last night, he did well, as i just gave him lotsa love. He will get more tonight as well.

[Sarita]

Just Pepcid AC. I think my vet compounded it for me. When you say human medications do you mean over the counter? Many of the medications that are used on animals are used on humans unless they’ve been banned for human use such as chloramphenical.

This was recommended by a board certified vet who specializes in exotics. You want to lower the ph in the stomach.

If I’m understanding you correctly the mass in your rabbit’s stomach is an impaction of food and matter which would be the result of a gut slowdown.

Does he eat pellets? That could be a culprit too – many rabbit savvy vets in the US recommend eliminating pellets from rabbits prone to gut slowdowns.

[Andi]

Pepcid AC, I’m thinking like, pick it up at the grocery store pharmacy area. That kind. I don’t like useing over the counter ‘people meds’ b/c some of those human type of medications (exmpl: pain killers) can be toxic to animals. I’m a little paranoid LOL

The mass earlier this year was the size of my palm, this ones not as big (yet?). And yes it is food/fur/whatever, as we were able to get it broken down and pushed through, but it was an ordeal and many of the staff at my clinic didn’t think he was going to make it. He’s not even close to being like that right now. But if I remember corectly it was no longer in the stomach, but in the intestines themselves.
Bo is overly sensitive, he get’s upset after nail clips, or brushings, where he acts like he’s going into stasis, he’s sorta a drama queen :p

At lunch he ate about 8 peices of cilantro, and nibbled a bit of hay while I was there, his slice of cucumber was gone. My Hubby told me he was eating cilantro last night and some hay. He’s not eating the pellets (12%), they are there if he wants them. He has two dishes of water, one regular and another with a little pedialite for flavor. On Saturday i said i would take him off pellets all together, but my Vet wanted him to still have them. If i could afford (& have room) for an all veggie diet for 8 rabbits I would, but i can’t.

I have left a message at the vet’s today, and so my vet should call me tomorrow (she’s not in today). I want to go over the Pepcid AC, and pain killers. I’ve not heard of Buprenex but if it’s easier on the tummy I would like to try that. I wonder if it’s available in Canada? I’ve had that issue before where there is an amazing product out there, but not available here.

[Sarita]

Well if he’s eating he may not need a pain medication. Buprenex is the same as buprenorphine – it’s an opiate drug. Metacam is a NSAID – non- steroid anti-inflammatory drug.

You mention homepathic medications – are these prescribed by your vet?

[Andi]

Yeah, I don’t think he ‘needs’ drugs right now, but I wanted to go over that option with the ones you’d mentioned. Have all the info and paths ready if we need them. I like the fact he’s eating on his own some, but still only 2 poops today

My Vet gave me the immune booster, which is homeopathic, I’ve seen it mentioned on this board before, it’s great stuff. I have been putting some in his critical care mixture.
Anything else I use, i had gotten from a Homeopathic Veterinarian (OMG Expensive), i had a partial paralyzed bunny who we were treating naturally.

[Sarita]

We only have one honest to goodness Homeopathic Vet in my area and it’s a pretty large metropolitan area. I went to her for a few visits for one of my rabbits that is no longer alive to do accupuncture for her severe arthritis and she was extremely hard to get in – I ended up doing laser therapy for her and that helped for a little while. I think she calls herself a Holistic Vet though.

She was very interesting but didn’t know alot about rabbits but was willing to learn – she was pricey and did give me something for arthritis that I tried for Maxine but I couldn’t really tell if it worked.

I don’t really have a need to use her for any of my rabbits right now and I’m not sure there is alot that she could do for stasis – I asked her about bladder sludge because I had a rabbit that had severe sludge but never ended up taking her in. I’m definitely interested in the holistic medicine for animals and my regular vet knows the holistic vet and she’s open to this as well although she knows nothing herself.

[Andi]

I have a Homeo remedy for Stasis, my friend who was really into Homeopathy for rabbits gave it to me, she was the one who got me to that Vet (in the ‘big city”, 2 hour drive for me, we also saw a chiropractor as well out there). I would have continued to go, but i just couldn’t afford it, specially if it would take away health care funds for the other rabbits, this one was a foster. When i get home, I will look up the name of it.
Did you ever use Arnica Montana (sp?)? That was the muscle pain killer I use, I actually started useing it for myself. I found this worked very well on her. We tried a couple others but that seemed to be the best. She passed away 2 years ago.

[Andi]

I am MUCH happier today with our process, this morning I awoke to lotsa NASTY poops LOL But they are poops so i am happy, mostly mushy but there were some big ones too he was very treat happy this morning, and perked right up when I came to his make shift cage. He ate some cilantro also this morning, and all that i gave him last night was gone.

He was SO mad at me after the force feeding last night, but all worth it when you get to see some poops

Stasis remedy –
Carddus Mariannus – for loss of appetite, Nausea ; eructations ; pyrosis, and distension of the bowels, abdomen; pain; with vomiting, blood and mucus in stool (intussusception); pain in region of liver; abdomen; pain; liver; colic, gall-stones;

[Sarita]

Glad he’s better! SO is that Carddus Mariannus what you used?

[Andi]

I have used the cardus mariannus, never all on it’s own but with say fluids and belly rubs when i get a bunny showing the first signs of gas/stasis. I am putting one ‘ball’ crushed into his critical care mix right now. My old handicap bunny would eat her’s right off a spoon.

I just got off the phone with my Vet, she is gathering a bunch of information from Vet confrences and research for me about Stasis and intestinal blockages. She was not able to find any research or information with the pepcid AC and rabbits as we chatted, as for Buprenex that is what we used the last big episode.
We believe Bo will be a cronic case for this, and a higher then most fiber diet, papaya enzyme and probiotics will be a regular thing for him.

The difference between Stasis and Bo’s “Fecal Impaction” as we’re going to call it, it’s sort of like a progressed Stasis, as he actually has an impaction further down the line, it’s not just guts slowing down but a physical blockage.
What’s the cause? I don’t know yet, but I can at least say i know how to treat and try to prevent it.

[Sarita]

I’ve never seen anything about Pepcid AC on line either but it was discussed at a small animal conference I attended a few years ago and forgot about it and my vet consults with a exotic/avian board certified vet who recommended it. I think that vets may have access to papers and other vets on forums as well and they may be able to tell her if they’ve used it. My vet just compounded it for me to use. I don’t know if it actually worked but it didn’t hurt – it’s also supposed to decrease the chances of ulcerations caused from stasis since rabbits get those ulcers every time they have a gut shutdown.

I think the term “stasis” is very misunderstood anyway – it’s just a condition where the rabbit stops eating due to a variety of reasons even if we have no idea what the cause is. Kind of like Snuffles which is not a medical term.

[KatnipCrzy]

What do his poos look like when he is not ill? large, mis-shaped? What pattern is Bo- solid or mostly white with some color?
I am treating my Mini Lop with Enulose for “Cow Poop Syndorme” as described by Dana Krempels. No vets that I have spoke with are aware of this condition (small Midwest area) but my vet was willing to prescribe the Enulose after I posted a question to allexperts.com

[Andi]

His regular poops are well formed, round and a good size, not overly large or egg shaped, not mushy either. He never has a messy bum. Bo is a standard Rex, lynx in colour (solid).
I have 2 bunnies who had messy bums, and both i was able to correct with diet.

[jerseygirl]

Andi, I’m sorry you’ve gone thru this again with Bo. Must be nerve racking! Does your vet have any thoughts on his pasturella diagnosis/ breathing symptoms and this obstruction being linked in any way?   {{{Bo}}} 

cardus mariannus from what I can see, is milk thistle. The plant is bunny safe, according to Galens Garden. http://www.galensgarden.co.uk/herbs/milkthistle.php

[Andi]

Pasturella he got from my little bunny Pitters, for Bo it seems to look like a cold, so runny nose and congestion. My Vet did mention the weird breathing i hear could be from the obstruction, but that was not a diagnosis more a thought. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are somehow linked, though he did not have the infection when this happend the last time. The Vet believes this is probably going to be a ongoing thing with him, and so I have to take extra preventative measures now.
She is doing more research on it, and will be emailing me her findings. I always impressed how she is always continously learning and willing to try new things.

[Andi]

I didn’t force feed last night since Bo had been doing very well, I cleaned his temporary pen and let him play with all his friends downstairs. He was happy to see them, checked everything out, & marked in front of some pens :p
He’s taking treats like there’s no tomorrow, and last night and this morning before work he was running about the living room, i even found him on the couch this morning with a “what?” sorta look on his face. He also runs to me when he see’s me again… But… no poops this morning. So i will check again this afternoon, and will be force feeding him again this evening.

[Andi]

POOPS !! ! !

So many great poops last night, Bo went back to his friends. First thing was kisses from his lady Ani LOL Now to figure out a long term prevention plan for my little fella.

[Karla]

Good for him!! So happy to hear this!

I think this thread has so many great tips. I’m glad I read it, so I know what to do in case one of mine ever experience this. I would be really interesting if you could post the prevention plan you come up with. And I really hope it works, so the little fella doesn’t have to deal with this again.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Poos!!!! Glad to hear it!!! I think only rabbits and horse people can become absolutely ecstatic by the presence of poos!!!

[jerseygirl]

Yay Bo ! So forgive me for asking for details…..did he pass normal poop or an actual obstruction? Anything out of the ordinary?

[osprey]

I am so glad he is on the mend. Yay Bo!

[Andi]

bah… came home to a sick bunny, not taking food, hanging his head over the water dish, so we’re just been force fed and put back upstairs dang it.
He was so happy last night, eating parsley with his friends and begging for treats.

[Author]

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