A tough re-bonding

[AnnoyingNewb]

I have two male rabbits who, when bought were very young an not neutered.

On growing a little older they started to exhibit signs of dominating one another and that eventually led to fighting.
They were split up, neutered, and 3 months have gone by.

So now we’re up to today. I decided to wait until after the xmas crazyness to start re-bonding them.
Today I took a small enclosure into the garage (neither has been there before) and sectioned it into two small areas with wire mesh between. I placed one rabbit in each section, with food and water facing one another.

For the most part there was some ignoring, but also some nose bumping through the mesh and a lot of sniffing. All good really.
After 6 hours, I placed them together in a very small enclosure with enough room for 4 rabbits lets say.

They sniffed, they pushed and shoved a little and then they sat down and cuddled. Great.

There was some grooming. Even better. I let them carry on for an hour.

After that, I gave them some extra space, about double. They spread out a bit, they layed down and they looked comfortable with one another. And then.. the more aggressive of the two started humping. The more submissive allowed this to a point and there was even some additional grooming, but the dominant one never seems to stop and kept pushing, pushing, pushing until the deadly tornado started. I intervened.

I added noise to the room. They cuddled. 

I removed the noise. They fought again.

Rinse and repeat about 3-4 times. 

I wasn’t 100% sure they were fighting the first few times until one of the little b*ggers bit me. They weren’t playing.

So.. I’m kind of unsure really. Clearly there was some bonding there, but they always seem to keep coming back to a fight.
At this point I’m not sure they will ever get on outside of a controlled environment.

Am I doing something wrong? I feel like I should repeat this for a week or so to make sure I’m giving them enough time but I dont;’ want to traumatise them either..

[AnnoyingNewb]

Probably I should add some background:
– They live together, but in separate enclosures (I separated it with some timber) so they can smell and hear one another.
– Since they first started fighting they have little tolerance for one another. In the very few occasions we have tried to mix them they’ve gone for each other. (it surprised me today when in the small area I allowed, they were quite nice rather than immediately aggressive)

[Mikey]

At this point, through complete misunderstanding, youve taught them to fight one another. When they see one another, they instinctively fight because youve unintentionally let it go on for so long. They need completely separate rooms for two+ months to forget about one another. They need to completely forget that the other bunny exists. They likely will continue fighting until they forget their grudge.

[AnnoyingNewb]

Hi Mikey, thank you for replying. What did I misunderstand?
I do not recall any rabbit fight club training, but clearly they have learned a grudge somewhere along the line.
I separated them as best I can. There is no spare rabbit room unfortunately, and they’ve been apart a good long while now (I would say 10 weeks). I’d hoped that would be long enough. Do you believe any further bonding attempt is a waste of time currently?

[Muchelle]

I have a solo bun, so I’m not really an expert on this matter, but by reading around during my stay on the forum I’ve read other times about buns that are hard to bond. I’d say to keep trying and reading through past experiences here on the forum (some good tips here: https://binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO/tabid/53/CategoryID/9/PID/940/Default.aspx)!

Maybe the stress technique could work? Waiting on more experienced members to chime in

[Mikey]

Youve trained them to fight by allowing it to happen more than once. The misunderstanding is that you thought they were playing and allowed it to happen. Because youve allowed it and watched it happen, youve unintentionally taught them to fight.

Currently, I do believe any bonding attempts will fail as they have so far. They need to forget their grudge and the only way to do that is stop them from seeing, smelling, and hearing one another for a good two+ months.

[sarahthegemini]

It sounds like you’ve moved very fast from the original neutral spot to other areas/more space which could have been the cause of one trying to hump the other (to establish dominance) which then led to fighting. Establishing dominance by humping is totally normal but the fact that it led to a fight is quite scary!

I would say they need a reset. Separate rooms is ideal but as that’s not possible, do you have the space to set up two enclosures in the room they are in now? You could have two separate pens and cover with blankets or cardboard sheets so they can’t see each other. If you can do that, that would really help them settle down and forget they’ve fought. After a couple of months you could start pre bonding again (swapping litter trays, food bowls, toys etc) Go very slow with the whole process. It’s easy as humans to think “right this is going well, let’s go to the next step” but we need to be sure that our bunnies are ready for the next step. And going slow doesn’t hurt anybody/any bun

Oh also, it’s good to note that a noise got them to cuddle. You can use this to your advantage when the time comes by doing some stress sessions with loud noises, the hoover for example. 

[AnnoyingNewb]

Hi Sarah, they are in an outside an enclosure with an upstairs and a downstairs. I have separated the two floors.
I don’t have anywhere else to put them.
They cannot see each other, but I’m sure they can smell and hear each other.

I think you’re right and I was way too fast yesterday.
I think I might get them together today with the wire mesh between them, and leave it at that. Then go with swapping between the cages.
I’ll also try a shorter session of an hour or so and see how they look.

The stress stuff seemed to work well, it was just that after the stress has passed they went back to fighting.
Not sure how I can break that cycle. Maybe more stress and more repetition?

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By AnnoyingNewb on 1/08/2018 4:28 AM

Hi Sarah, they are in an outside an enclosure with an upstairs and a downstairs. I have separated the two floors.
I don’t have anywhere else to put them.
They cannot see each other, but I’m sure they can smell and hear each other.

I think you’re right and I was way too fast yesterday.
I think I might get them together today with the wire mesh between them, and leave it at that. Then go with swapping between the cages.
I’ll also try a shorter session of an hour or so and see how they look.

The stress stuff seemed to work well, it was just that after the stress has passed they went back to fighting.
Not sure how I can break that cycle. Maybe more stress and more repetition?

Hmm. That’s a tough one as I think being so close to one another might not help the situation. Okay, what I would do is stop all sessions for a month. Just keep them separated. Then try some stress sessions. What you could do is stress them and then immediately put them back in their own enclosure afterwards so there’s no time to fight but might help them build up some trust? Once you’ve done that a few times you could stress them and then immediately s mush them together and pet them for a few seconds and then put them back in their enclosure. I think it will be a long process but I don’t think bonding them is impossible! 

[AnnoyingNewb]

Okay I will give them a rest for awhile then if you think they really need another break..
I was hoping that repetition would perhaps override their resistance to one another, but maybe they are too stubborn for that.

One thing I did notice is that immediately after the session yesterday, first one and then the other was allowed into the kitchen for a run and a bit of a treat. Both rabbits are usually well toilet trained, and both wandered round spreading poo everywhere in a territorial claim which they usually don’t do.
Clearly, both of them want the kitchen and the days session must have made them desire to claim territory.

[Author]

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