A tough question

[bunnytowne]

 I have been thinking of putting Cotton down.  Everytime I think of it I get weepy.  Breaks my heart to think about it.  

His lip is swollen he can’t close his mouth it is pulling his gums down.  HE isnt’ active anymore.  He does eat good. 

I know it is hurting him.  But when he comes to get pettings I just can’ t bear the thought of him not being here. 

If there is no diagnosis or solution found what would you do?  I just love him so much.  We had to put Laith down now Cotton is having problems poor Boo.  

I will try the technocare if that doesn’t work the 2nd biopsy.  If the meds don’t work then I will make the decision depending on his …   hmmm…

his activity level and so on. 

HELP

[Sarita]

Oh Bunnytowne :~( I totally understand your dilemma because you are worried about Cotton’s quality of life.

I think first I would have a very honest discussion with my vet and in my experience vet’s are very honest when it comes to telling you the truth about quality of life issues for their patients and clients.

I think once you have this discussion with your vet then that will help you as well.

I know that I have a few rabbits that I have concerns about quality of life as well – Maxine and Pepe and if it comes time to make a decision I’m going to have to rely alot on my vet to help me with this. I think it’s hard when the answer is not obvious and when you don’t even know what the problem is to know if there is a solution.

I do think that you are on the right track as far as activity and appetite though. I would not want my bunny to be in pain either and I would not want to continue treating medically if nothing has worked and the problem is not getting better.

I’ve had to make the decision a few times for my own personal rabbits and for the sanctuary that I helped at and I always felt very sad but I always knew that I made the right decision in the end (along with the help of my vet).

Hugs to you Bunnytowne.

[kralspace]

oh BT, I’m sorry Cotton isn’t doing any better. I don’t have any advice or wisdom, but I do send lots of ((((bunny hugs))))) to you all.

Kathy

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

*BIG HUGS* Its a very hard decision to make. I know you love cotton very much or you wouldn’t be thinking of this.

I think it depends on quality of life and your the only one qualified to make that decision. Generally look at pain, eating and drinking, sleeping and generaly happiness-as well as prognosis-can this be fixed.

It’s something you’ll need to think about before coming to a decision and it’s a very personal decision. Here are some links that have more info and may help you. *HUGS*

http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/lossandgrief/f/FAQ_euthanasia.htm

http://www.pet-loss.net/quality.shtml

http://www.pet-loss.net/euthanasia.shtml

[bunnytowne]

 Thanks Sarita I am going to bring him to the vet today.   Talk about this and perhaps get another biopsy done.  First I need to know if she sent the first biopsy to a pathologist. Then make a decision on the biopsy.  

I hate to keep putting him thru this.  I dont’ think the Technocare is going to work since his lip is swollen.  I am going to discuss that with the vet too today

And that other wash that was mentioned by someone on my other posts    IT’s BAaaaack.  

I need some input on this.  I feel so bad thinking about this.  I feel like I am betraying him. 

Maybe I should let this biopsy be done and try the wash and see first what that brings. 

Again though I am tired of putting him thru this and nothing has cured it.  IT is all swollen again.  He has trouble picking up his hay. He bounces his face around til he gets a piece. 

Well let me call his vet office. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Deleted User]

Bunnytowne, I am so sorry you have to think about this. Hugs to you I am sending, too!
If there is no diagnosis and solution found I would consider it, too. I think, your plan on how to go about making this decision is very good and is the best way to take care of Cotton now. He’s so lucky to have you loving him and caring for him especially now.

[Sarita]

You aren’t betraying him at all. We are lucky that we can make these decisions for our rabbits so they don’t suffer.  I guess a better word than lucky is grateful that we can make this decision.

[bunnytowne]

 Well his vet thinks he still has a good quality of life.  He has chewed on his toys yesterday and some this morning.  He is enthusiastic about food.  

His lip does hurt.  He enjoys being petted.  

So I will pray about it.   I feel much relieved that she feels he has a good quality of life.  HE has an appointment for a biopsy thursday

He first biopsy was sent to a pathologist.  This one will be sent to a different pathologist.   I cry n cry everytime i think of putting him down.  I would miss him soooooo much. 

What a hard decision.  I feel so bad his lip isn’t right.  I dont’ want him to suffer more treatments and so on with no cure.  I dont’ know what will be different about this 2nd biopsy than the first one.  Maybe a different pathologist will recognize something the other may have missed.  Or he still had meds in his system  interfering with the test. 

I read the articles as well and it seems he is happy still.  He looks forward to treats and food. Even tho he bounces his head around to pick up a hay. He eats his pellets good. 

I just feel so frustrated for him that this lip thing won’t go away.  The  biopsy to come the treatments to come. 

I will put off the decision of euthanasea for a good while yet.  Try the technocare and that other stuff that was mentioned earlier.  I just want this to be over for him.  Poor Boo. I dont’ think he is ready to go yet.  I feel better the vet doens’t want to euthanise him.  Being a vet she has seen pets worse off and euthanasea would be best for them.  But not yet for Cotton,.   phew.  Relief. She will if I ask but she doens’t think it is best at this time. 

It isnt’ that I don’t want to spend the $ to try to help him.  I remember his last dose of meds his tummy got upset and he stopped eating his breakfast.  HE was obviously stressed over all the treatments. 

HE has had a break so hopefully it will go good and the right treatment will be found right away. 

However  I don’t know what other med she would use depending on this biopsy.  If it will cure it or not.  At what point do you stop medicating.  

This is a long drawn out saga.  A very difficult situation. 

Fouad said he seems to enjoy eating when you give him treats.  Ok Cotton lets go to the dock it is nice out today. 

 

 

[Sarita]

I’m glad you talked to the vet. I’m glad that she was able to ease your concerns. Please keep us updated on whatever you find.

Have you asked the vet about possibly some pain medication? Maybe he would benefit from Metacam which is a non-steroid anti-inflammatory – I use this daily on Maxine and sometimes for Pepe. There is a possibility of kidney and liver problems but as long as your vet does bloodwork it to monitor this the benefits could outweigh this risk.

More hugs to you Bunnytowne and pets for Cotton.

[bunnycutie]

im so glad you talked to your vet. im sure he has a good quality life too he sounds like a wonderful rabbit i will keep cotton in my prayers. i have never had to put any pets down, but i have had many die. it is a very hard thing to deal with. my guinea pig, puzzle, died after five years. we shared a very special bond. he died with me, right next to me. it was such an emotional day. it was really hard to fight off the tears during school. i couldnt cry during the day, in front of my classmates. and it was the day of my 8th grade graduation concert. it was horrible. i remember when i got home i collapsed though. i felt so terrible. i understand how you feel. we are all here to support you as im sure we have gone thorough similar decisions.

*hugs and pets to cotton*

[bunnytowne]

 Thank you everyone  I feel better now too.   Those pages on euthanasia helped a lot.  I realize he does have a good quality of life.   I mean I could go around with a swollen lip and still be happy. 

I called the vets office again.  The office lady listened and when Dr Luther was done with a patient she got to talk to her.  Dr. Luther agreed for me to try the surgical wash.  I explained that Dana Krempels was a  biologist not a vet.  However she does know a lot and said it may be antibiotic resistant and when that happens the vets do the surgical wash.  It usually works. 

So it was agreed that the office will have ready for me to pick up on thursday a surgical wash safe for Cotton.  This is great that Dr. Luther has something safe for Cotton.  The abriding the wound was explained too.  

I hope n pray this works and clears it all up.   

I took Boo to the dock too.  HE gave me some tooth purrs.  Yep he is happy.  Phew. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bunnycutie]

ohhhh yay! good that cottons happy. i love cotton i think the lip-wash is a very good idea. let us know how it works!

[bunnytowne]

 OH Bunnycutie that sounds like a very tough day when you lost your guinea pig Puzzle.  Glad you got thru it

[Monkeybun]

I’m glad you don’t have to go through with that, and I do hope poor Cotton gets better soon. *snuggles*

[katie, max & penny]

oh BT. this is so sad- i can’t imagine how you and cotton have the strength for all this. i can’t really say anything that others haven’t already said, but i think praying about it, trying the scrub and just loving on cotton is the solution for now. good luck, bt. hugs!

[RabbitPam]

BT, I am reading all of this post now and my heart is heavy, but I am also relieved that you are able to try more for him. He has an amazing quality of life with you, compared to many pet owners. You are so devoted to he and Ruby, but Cotton Boo has always been your very special little guy. I’m glad the vet was able to reassure you about continuing to work with her and Dana Krempels on treatments.

I can’t help wondering if the piece of lip that is so afflicted could be removed surgically. How hard would it be to eat if he were pain free with the infected area gone? Or would it just spread elsewhere and be for nothing?

If he takes treats from you, any way to give him hay from your hand? Or maybe hay that is suspended from above him, so he reaches up to eat rather than pulling it in across his bottom lip, would be easier for him. Like a hay holder that hangs from the cage in a higher place.

Sammy just ran into the room here, and stopped at her cage. I asked her if she would say bunny prayers for Cotton, and she looked straight at me.
She will. {{{{{{{{{{{{Hugs to you and Cotton}}}}}}}}}} Pets for Princess Ruby, too.

[mrmac]

You are keeping Cotton’s best interest in mind, which can sometimes be hard too. I am so sorry you and Cotton are having to deal with all of this. Rabbitpam, I though of the same thing about it being removed? Not sure if that is feasable or would help but curious? I hope the wash works and things get better! I will pray for you both! ((((((((((Major hugs and extra pets to you and Cotton! and Ruby!!!))))))))))

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

BT if he’s having trouble picking up hay-why not try some hay cubes? That might help him

[MooBunnay]

I’m glad to hear that you have had some good news about Cotton. I’m sorry to hear that he is having trouble, and that you have such a tough thing to think about. I think that in the end you will know what is right for Cotton, it sounds like right now he still enjoying life with you, and even though his lip hurts some, it doesn’t sound like it has taken away his quality of life yet.

I hope that he starts doing even better and that his lip is doing better soon.

[luvmybunny]

Glad Cotton is feeling better and your vet is helping you out! I will keep Cotton in my prayers *Hugs 2 you both!*

[MimzMum]

Oh Kawthar, I am so sorry for the pain you and Cotton are going through.
I know money is tight and we certainly don’t want to put Cotton through more agony with treatments and such, but what I’m wondering is, if the infection can’t be controlled, would it be very bad to remove the affected areas on his lips by surgical means and then hope it all heals correctly, perhaps giving him some relief? I mean, I know it is horrid to think of taking away a part of his beautiful bunny lip, but it seems to me that “if thy eye offend thee” would be at work here.
Hopefully this wash helps finish off the bugs and he can get back to a normal happy life. The dock was a good idea, back to the old routine. Our bunnies really love that. I think he may just be bummed by all the treatments, even though they sometimes help. I know I just went for my most recent check up yesterday and I think if I have one more xray and blood draw I’ll run away screaming. But it’s necessary to keep me in good health. It’s hard for the bunnies to understand this kind of thing where they are concerned.

I will pray harder for you and Cotton. Please, God, help…we need the Great Physician! This poor little bunny needs healing!

[BinkyBunny]

Oh Bunnytowne. Big HUGS!  I have yet to have to make that type of decision, (though it was very close with Bailey toward the end), but since I will have bunnies for as long as I can properly care for them I’m sure I will be faced with this decison and so I feel for you.    I know it would be only out of pure love.   

Sometimes seeing them suffer is harder on us than it actually is on them – they can sure be resiliant and happy even when things are painful, but at the same time there does come a time when they really aren’t happy no matter what ,  and they are suffering and so the hard decision is made.   I am glad though that it looks like right now Cotton is enjoying life even with this  – I have no doubt it is because he is so loved by you.   You have done so much and he is lucky to have you.  I know that no matter what happens with his future, you will make the right choice for him, but right now I am relieved to hear that he is still happy and just dealing with this lip thing.

I sure wish this could be fixed!  I will tell my own very rabbit-savvy vet,at our next appointment, about this and see if she has ANYTHING to suggest what this could be.  Maybe she’ll able to suggest something that hasn’t been thought of yet.  Who knows.

 

 

 

 

[Sarita]

Bunnytowne, ask your vet about the Metacam (pain medication) as well.

[bunnytowne]

 Hay cubes.    That is a good idea.  Tomorrow I am going out to pick up his scrub and his fav pellets  Kaytee Timmy.   Also some  meadow hay to keep his variety going.   I will pick up some cubes.  

I have mentioned and teased Cotton in front of the vet about taking off his bottom lip.  If the wash doesn’t work and he goes in for his biopsy I will mention it and discuss it seriuosly  instead of joking.  

IT is the bottom part of his lower lip that is messed up.  I have decided what the stopping point for treatment will be.  If the scrub doesnt’ work then one last biopsy and if those meds don’t work I will stop.  He gets so stressed out with all this.  Me too knowing he is stressed. 

OH my Mimzmum you had the thyroid surgery right?  You are still going thru xrays and bloodsuckers.  Yeah gets old doesn’t it. 

When I had my 2nd back surgery my body started to reject the bone from the bone bank.  I was stuck in there  6 days and every 2 hours they would draw blood.  My arms were so swollen they couldn’t get a vein and started digging around in my hand.   OH it hurt.  After that I refused to let them get blood for a while.  I ordered some ice and put it on my arms and the swelling went down then they were able to get a vein.  Yeah those blood sucking hemotologist.  lol.   Vampires all of them.  Just kidding. 

Thank you everyone for the prayers and suggestions.  Even Sammy bunny is going to ask our Creator our Healer for healing for Cotton Boo. How sweet. 

He is hiding in his house right now.  I saw him pick a hay and eat.  

I am happy the vet agreed to try the surgical scrub wash thing.  She has something ready for me at the office.  It isnt’ technocare but it is safe for buns so I feel better knowing if he licks some of it that it won’t seriuosly hurt him.   I wasnt’ sure about Technocare as Dana said don’t let him lick it.  Of course I will do my best to keep him from licking it. 

 

[bunnycutie]

http://www.antonline.com/p_44063-GP_661623.htm

 

sorry i dunno how to link it

glad to hear cottons gettin better! hes such a cutiepie

these are some compressed hay pellets i used for my quinea pig(when he began to get really old and didn’t want loose hay anymore). it might be easier for cotton to eat. you can find them at pets supplies plus or petsmart. since the hay is chopped and compressed, i dont think it provides that much fiber, in the long stems bunnies need….but its better than nothing. of course, i dont suggest feeding these in unlimited quantites. i gave my guinea pig 1/4 cup each day. he did fine off that. just an idea

((cotton&BT))

[katie, max & penny]

at my store, we have a cat up for adoption that has no top lip- her nose goes right to her gums. she’s a very happy cat and it doesn’t seem to bother her. so the lip-amputation may be an acceptable solution. i hope it doesn’t get to that and that this scrub works. but either way, bt, you’re a very wonderful bunny mummy and cotton agrees. he told me so

 

that being said, i will follow RP’s example and ask max and pen to pray for little cotton. peace and love be with you both.

[MimzMum]

Oh, no BT, that’s not me. (The user’s name escapes me at the moment…) No I just went for my recheck that I get about every four months now. Breast cancer. I had to get the one with the PINK ribbon. lolz… 4 months is still too often in my opinion. Almost 5 years now since I was diagnosed and this is just maintenance.
Yeah, I hate having the blood drawn, but hey, I have to admire the folks who can do that. I have a hard enough time patching myself up after I shave, much less sticking a railroad spike in someone’s arm or hand and yanking the life force out of them. >.< What a job!
Bone grafts…oh dear! they were talking about doing that with my hubby’s back years ago. But they were going to break his own hip into pieces and fix his spine with it. When he heard that and how he’d have to be in bed for 6 months he told them to forget it, he’d just live with the pain.

Anyway…enough of that. ((((((((((((((((((((hugs for Cotton Boo & BT))))))))))))))))))))))) We’re all thinking of you here and praying for the best outcome!

[bunnytowne]

 My darling little Cotton Boo.    I have started the scrub and iodine treatment.   I really hope it works.   Putting him down is still going back n forth in my mind.  

If this doesn’t work the scrub and iodine I will stop trying to fix it.  For now.   I keep thinking what should I do for him.    I can let him be and stay as he is.   Til it gets real bad.  Poor Boo it looks terrible to me.  Swollen lip all scabbed over from one side to the other.  Looks like a mess. 

He hasn’t dug and nibbled on my shirt in a while now.   He tried to I could see and his bottom lip got irritated seemed like and he stopped.  HE doesn’t groom the pillows anymore. 

Oh he puts up a fuss tho with that scrub and stuff lol.   

I definitely don’t want to continue testing til they finally discover what it is and how to treat it. The meds only work the first week them stop.  Upsets his stomache upset me and him both. 

Decisions decisions.    I am sure I will make the right choice when the time comes.  Right now I am going to enjoy out time together.  

If I do  have him sent to RRB  He will be creamated and come back to stay on my table here.  OR maybe this scrub will work and he will be great 

He is just sooooo cute him.  Full of personality.  He really fills my life.  He isnt’ running about on the floor watching for me to notice him.  Maybe he will again.  I really hope so.   All I can do is try for him and wait n see what happens. 

Ruby will never take his place.  

 

 

[Sarita]

I hope the scrub works! Please keep us udpated.

[bunnytowne]

 thank  you Sarita I really do too.  

Today he hasn’t gone into his house to eat.  He is hiding trying to avoid more treatment little rascal.  He will eat tonite I know.  Maybe he wasn’t depressed cuz all this medicine maybe he was hiding after all lol.

He did good tho I gave him his 2nd treatment a little bit ago. I held him and sang to him too. He is so sweet him. 

[katie, max & penny]

to cotton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch

 

love, katie max and penny

[Miyuki]

Hello BT, I’m sorry to hear about Cotton! I always enjoy Cotton talking about him mum on the boards . I’m going to agree with Sarita and say it wouldn’t hurt to ask your vet for metacam (I administered it long term for about 2 or 3 months). Hopefully he isn’t in pain but it might at least help the swelling of his lip a little. I was told that it can upset a rabbit’s tummy if they haven’t had anything to eat. So if you get some metacam you should give it with food.

Just a note that metacam bottles are usually for dogs and cats and the metacam syringe is for dosing dogs and cats… make sure you get a syringe that has smaller increments because the metacam syringe has huge increments compared to what is normally used for rabbits!

Sorry got a bit sidetracked there. I hope the scrub works for Cotton. From what you said I don’t think he is ready to go yet . If you can do little things that make it easier for him (like the hay cubes perhaps) he will be happy .

[MimzMum]

All the way across his lip now? Is there any chance it’s one of those drug resistant staph infections? Those tend to just keep coming back. When I was in my doc’s office the other day, I saw a posting on the wall that talked about how both humans and animals can get MRSA. If it’s something like that, he’ll probably need all that tissue removed so it doesn’t spread farther.
Not trying to be a bum out, but it just occurred to me and I thought I should mention it. ((((((more healing vibes for the Boo))))))))))))
I hope the wash works too. I don’t want Cotton to have to visit the bridge. I want him to be snuggly safe in your arms for many years to come.
How old is he, btw? I don’t think I’ve ever asked.

[Beka27]

Oh no. Big hugs Kawthar!

(Cotton)

[RabbitPam]

BT,
Any signs of improvement this morning?

{{{{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}}}}}

[bunnytowne]

 Hello everyone.  

About staph.  I saw on his culture report the vet made a note by one of the tests results she wrote staph.  Those are extremely hard to get rid of yes. 

He is more active now since I started the scrub.   He isn’t coming for pettings he must be mad at me.  Imagine that mad at me for treating his lip . Go figure 

His swelling went down. He is eating  his hay good no more bobbing for hay.  

Oh now I know what you mean about reposting that video.  I hadn’t  checked this post lately.  No he definitely doesn’t want to go to RRB now. 

I would miss his stories too.  He is only 2 1/2  He will be 3 in April  or March.  I just put his Bday with Ruby’s since I dont’ know for sure.

 I got him in May or June at 2 months. I got Laith in April I think and Cotton came shortly after.

His vet on his biopsy said he had like 5 organisms made a home in his lip.  This is why Dana Krempels suggested the surgical scrub. It seemed his organisms were antibiotic resistant

It may take a while for this to completely heal up.  I am prepared to continue this scrub for 2 weeks.   Thursday was his first treatment I wrote it on the calendar so I can keep track. 

[Author]

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