1st vs 2nd cut timothy hay

[lwayne]

 Ok, I’m still confused about timothy hay.  I’ve been buying hay from kmshayloft.com since she is about 2h away.  She only sells 2nd and 3rd cuts, so I have been using the 2nd cut as the primary hay (unlimited) and feeding just a handful of the 3rd cut per day.  Is this ok?  Or should I be feeding 1st cut as primary hay? (If so, I need to find a different local distributor that sells 1st cut).  I know 1st cut has more fiber.  

[MooBunnay]

To be honest, I do not pay very much attention to what cut of hay I have when I feed my bunnies, I just make sure that they are eating plenty of it. I think that sometimes the type of cut can affect how much the bunnies like to eat the hay, but with mine I have found that it is the freshness of the hay more so than the cut that ensures that my bunnies will eat their hay. I researched a bit online, and it seemed that the 1st cut is the most coarse cut, and that the second has more nutrients in it. I do not know if others have had the same experience as me, but I have not had an issue with any of the cuts that I have had.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

The cut doesn’t matter in terms of ‘is this hay ok’ so your totally fine feeding either cut of hay

The cuts I believe-get softer as you go up (so 1 is the hardest and 4 is the softest) and I would only look at that if I had a picky bun-all in all-any of the cuts are fine as long as your bun eats it

[Deleted User]

If I get a choice I go with 1st cut because it is highest in fiber and lowest in protein and fat. My rabbits eat any hay so I don’t have to worry they will pass up a coarser kind. The other cuts are richer in protein and fats, especially the 3rd cut. A healthy adult house rabbit does not need rich feed, especially if you are offering pellets too. I have used poor hay at times, i.e. timothy that was cut after it bloomed which is when it gets really hard and low in nutrients. I think variety is healthy, and hard-stem hays abrade the teeth more which is generally a good thing in rabbits.

[Sarita]

I have to agree that while some cuts may be higher in fiber, lower in protein, etc…it is more important that your rabbit eat the hay.

Just based on some analysis it doesn’t seem significantly different in the cuttings.

I will say that my rabbits do prefer the 2nd and the 3rd cut to the first cut.

[Deleted User]

Haha, your rabbits *know* the difference, Sarita, without any analysis. — I have looked into this in my review of Lint’s diet. I think if you want to control a rabbit’s weight the cutting, type and stage of hay matters. It is a fact, a horse can get fat just from eating grass, so I would think a bunny can too. In one article from the House Rabbit Society it even mentions that “late-bloom alfalfa and early bloom timothy have the same protein content” which shows how drastically the nutrient content of plant matter can change. I think this type of science can be important when feeding overweight or older bunnies.

[Sarita]

Ah, that’s interesting, thanks for the info Petzy. None of my rabbits get pellets either except for Pepe who won’t eat hay and for my little Dutch pair who don’t eat much. So it may not make a difference for a pellet free diet – what are your thoughts on that?

[Deleted User]

Since the beginning of this year, I’ve been in the process of taking Lint off the pellets so I thought about that very thing. His greedy practices are making him unsuited for pellets. One time he went into a stasis after eating too many/too fast. I use pellets more as treats now. One pellet at a time as a reward. What I want to do is cut out any grains from his diet. Pellets have grains. By increasing vegetables, even sugary/starchy ones like carrots and snap peas, and varying hay types I want to make Lint’s diet more wholesome.

For a pellet-free diet I believe you could give different hays, richer hays, possible a little legume hays, too, seeing how rabbits naturally would eat some legumes (clover, alfalfa) when they are available to them. Your rabbits are not as mini as Lint, they are more like my Deirdra, but even her, I don’t feed more than 2 teaspoons’ worth of the pellets and she is doing great. She is down to 8 lbs and very energetic. I believe rabbits that do not get pellets may even benefit from an occasional feeding with third cut hay (‘fat’ hay).

[Sarita]

That’s funny “fat” hay. Well, my rabbits love their fat hay. Unfortunately none of my rabbits are active anymore. Unless waking up from a nap is an activity.

[Deleted User]

Why and when did you decide to go no-pellets? Are your rabbits slim or chubby?

[kralspace]

I’m not sure which is which, but all of mine will refuse to eat the cutting that is coarser and has few leaves. I was always lucky enough to the get softer cuttings, then I got a 29lb of the coarser and after several months started using it mainly as litter box bedding because they all stuck together and refused it. ( I firmly believe they hold secret meetings late at night to vote on such things)

I bought all different kinds from the pet store so I could try smaller quantities and orchard grass seems to be the winner. I just got a big box this weekend from the sanctuary so everybody’s happy now. And it smells great!

[Sarita]

Kralspace, that’s probably 1st cutting. Oxbow does not distinguish either between their cuttings, you get what you get.

I think Orchard grass is also seasonal as well. Glad your new box smells good – I do love the smell of hay.

Petzy, I honestly cannot remember exaclty when I decided to go pellet-free for my rabbits – it’s just evolved. I stopped giving Mango pellets because he has poopy butt, but honestly he still has poopy butt and he’s not very slim either – he also had 2 or 3 long stasis events when he was younger. My vet at the time also thought he had Giardia but we tried 3 different treatments and nothing helped with the poopy butt.

None of my rabbits are slim, they are all large and older rabbits. I’ve wondered if Maxine might benefit again from pellets since she can no longer walk (but she can sure scoot for her treats) due to her severe arthritis (thinking about the calcium) but only give them to her when I think about it – not sure at this point anything will help with her other than pain meds.

Part of it was the sludge problem since they are high in calcium and I tend to have sludgy rabbits.

I wish I could get Pepe off pellets but that is all that he eats – he picks at his hay and veggies and tears into his pellets – I honestly cannot remember how he got to this point. He has terrible terrible teeth and my vet seems somewhat convinced that if he eats hay it will help but it will never correct his problem. Part of his problem is slight malocclusion and part is just bad teeth – so far he’s had 2 pulled that were loose and the vet said this last time that his teeth were turning brown! I don’t think that hay is going to help now. I honestly just think he’s one of those rabbits with bad breeding – I’m sure he’s the result of back yard breeding anyway.

No one seems to miss the pellets though and I think if I took them away from my Dutch pair they wouldn’t notice. Pepe would notice though.

[lwayne]

so the consensus is… 1. I keep buying 2nd cut locally from kmshayloft or 2. I find another supplier to buy high fiber 1st cut ? (ie can I keep feeding 2nd cut as the primary unlimited hay?)

I’m guessing my bun is going to like 2nd cut more and it is easier for me to get, but if 1st is ‘better’ for her, I will try to find it.

[Sarita]

I think you are fine. Feed her what she likes and don’t change a good thing. My vet has no problem with me feeding 2nd or 3rd cutting.

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