Not eating normally

[Isabelle]

Dutchess isn’t eating normally, she refused a carrot last night and this morning, and only ate a little bit of her parsley. She did eat two small pieces of lettuce this morning, but she didn’t eat any of her pellets yesterday or last night. She had slightly smaller poops last night and this morning she had two larger messy poops that weren’t shaped. She is drinking and did eat some hay, my parents saw her this morning, but I haven’t seen her.

Is it vet time? I need to go back to work in twenty minutes, so I would need to make the appointment in the next few.

[peppypoo]

I would definitely make the appointment. If she starts eating/pooing better, you can always cancel it, but it’s good to be able to take Dutchess in otherwise. Vibes!

[Isabelle]

Okay, I made her an appointment for tonight, they were able to sneak her in.

[peppypoo]

She definitely sounds like there’s some GI upset going on if her apetite and poos are off. Have you tried palpating her tummy?

[RabbitPam]

Has she been to the vet by now? How did you make out there?
{{{{{Healing vibes, Dutchess}}}}}}}

[Isabelle]

Well it seems that my new job is the culprit. She’s got a hair ball. When I was home with her, she would get groomings every 20-30 minutes from me which also meant that I would be petting out a lot of excess hair. Now that I’m working my new job this past week, she hasn’t gotten that, so her system isn’t used to the extra hair she’s been injesting. I got two medicines (a syringe liquid and a laxative) from the doctor, and also he said to give her some regular light green gatorade with some pineapple juice as well. If she’s not eating at least a little bit within three days I should bring her back. He also said that her system should slowly being to tolerate more hair as she adjuts to me working, but I definately will be giving her a grooming on my lunch hour and a good one or two at night as well to help her start adjusting. Poor lil’ girl, she’s not too thrilled with the meds At least she should be fine and feeling better soon.

[Sarita]

Rabbits do not get hairballs. How did he determine this and does he have alot of experience with rabbits? The pineapple juice is very old school as well.

[Isabelle]

I believe he was a rabbit vet, it was a last minute appointment, the lady on the phone was muttering to herself the names of the rabbits vets to see which ones were available. He did say that he’s used this three system treatment (antibiodics, laxative, and pineapple juice) on lots of rabbits and only two hadn’t improved with it. The direct term he used was trichobezoar or something like that. Isn’t a hair ball the same as wool block? He was trying to explain it to me in a way that I could understand without lots of medical terms.

Well today she’s eating again and her poops are getting back to normal, with a few that are pearled. She binkied and even ran across half the room at top speed once, so something must be working from what he told me to do. She’s much, much more like her normal self.

[Sarita]

Here’s a very good article from a very rabbit experienced vet that you might find helpful:

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-7/gi.html

It talks about the rabbit digestive system and the hairball myth.  Rabbits do get blockages but rabbit experienced vets nowadays don’t use the laxatives (which coat the blockage) and pineapple juice any longer.

[Isabelle]

I’m sorry but that article doesn’t make much sense to me, perhaps you could help me understand more if you would explain it further. These are my concerns:

1. It says that this impaction occurs when there isn’t enough fiber or water. Dutchess always has access to water and small mountains of fresh hay. Her eating and drinking slowed after her poops started getting smaller, not before. There is no way she wasn’t getting proper water and fiber.

2. Hairballs. Well, there is hair, it wraps up with other large particles and becomes a ball. In essence to me, a hair ball. No, it’s not 100% hair, but I don’t think of a hair ball as just hair. The vet made sense to me when he said she was probably injesting more hair because I wasn’t around to groom it out like I had been the past seven months. I quote, “As this material dehydrates, the larger particles are left behind (which includes the hair). The liquid stomach content gradually becomes a solid tightly adhered mass.” So she was taking in more hair, so the masses theorectically would be larger than her body was normally able to handle, thus causing the impaction she experienced.

3. The pineapple juice, with or without the so called ‘enzymes’ would be extra hydration which would help break up the hair ball/impaction mass. The antibiodics would prevent bacteria overgrowth that would cause infection, and the laxative (which I only used a pea size amount twice) would help her go. I see from that point of view how that would work, and has.

4. Quote: “I find that over 50% of the rabbits presented with this condition will take care of it themselves when they are given a big pile of leafy greens to eat. Most of the cases of stomach impaction we see have been on a primary pellet diet and have had little or no access to greens or hay. They are craving fiber and fluids and the leafy greens can be just the ticket.”

A. She wouldn’t eat her greens. Not to mention she gets a good variety of greens two or three times per day. She refusing them was the second symptom (first was the smaller poops). She even ate two big pieces of romaine lettuce in a moment of feeling better, but she still worsened after that.

B. She is not primarily on pellets. As I said before, she gets 1/4 cup per day. She has maintained a weight of 4.2-4.4 pounds for the past four/five months since she matured. She has a constant supply of hay, and as I said gets plenty of greens every day without fail.

C. 50% of what? How many rabbits? Ages, genders, backgrounds, control groups, experiment groups for a research study on outcomes of different treatment plans. Where is that number from? How does she know it’s 50%?

5. Quote: “So, how do you prevent this situation? It really isn’t difficult. The nature of the GIT physiology of the rabbit suggests that it is vitally important to provide a diet that is high in indigestible fiber as was discussed in HRJ Vol. III, No. 3.”

I’ve been doing that since I got her seven months ago. Why did it occur then? The only change I saw was that she had been taking in more fur. I watch her when she’s out, she didn’t injest anything she shouldn’t have.

6. Quote: “It is so frustrating for me in practice to see the same myths perpetuated about “hairballs” and to see this disease used so often as a primary diagnosis.”

There’s hair. Rabbits injest it. It meshes with other things and turns into a ball. So what’s so terrible about calling it a hairball? If you want to be nitpicky, call it a bunnyball to distinguish it from a cat hairball. There is no denying that rabbits take in hair, and then poop it out in their little round balls of poop sometimes strung together.

The biggest issue that I have with the article is that it is one woman stating a case. Where are the control groups? The studies? The numbers? Other veterinarian studies and opinions? The x-rays and facts that are supporting her case? Name me these things, show me the reports and the photos of the research gone into a true scientific study. The internet can be a wonderful resource to be sure, but the number one thing I learned in six years of college is that you must -prove- your thesis with -facts-, which I saw none of in there. I’m sorry, but right now I have to agree with the veterinarian on this.

I would absolutely love to have a discussion about this and learn more, see what statistics are out there, and can’t wait for you to prove me wrong and show me what information I’m missing. You are obviously very rabbit savvy and I have the utmost respect for you and your opinions. Please explain to me the non-hair ball theory to me with more relevant information, I am very interested in it. If you don’t want to post here please feel free to message or e-mail me, the health of my bunny is of my utmost concern, but I need more than that unsubstantiated article to go against the veterinarian’s treatment plan. I plan on getting some books from the library and doing a more thorough search online on rabbit health. After this I know I need to be more aware of how bunnies can get ill and how to treat it, and see what options and opinions are out there.

[Sarita]

Unfortunately I don’t think there are alot of statistics or control groups out there for rabbit care – it’s not one of those things that has been really taught in vet schools from what I can tell from talking to vets and the medicine that is out there pertains to rabbits that aren’t pets but for agriculture so it’s really an evolving medicine.

Most of the medications that are used for rabbits is not based on control groups for rabbits.

This particular vet who wrote this piece is one of the foremost vets on house rabbit care and has been on the board of directors for the House Rabbit Society. I trust her information – it’s up to you to decide if you think this woman, who is a DVM and has lot of experience with house rabbits is a good source.

I suggest you read this article from Dana Krempel’s – who is not a vet but has alot of experience with rabbits.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

I’m not here to argue with you – make your own decision, get on the internet like I have and do the research to decide what is good information and what is not. Rabbit medicine is ever evolving.

[Sarita]

I want to add that this is not something that you are going to have control groups for – it’s not a medication, so you won’t find this and it’s based on experiences from vets and rescuers who have studied rabbits.

Rabbits are not like cats who get hairballs either.

What did this vet do to determine it was a “hairball”? Did he do an x-ray or a sonogram? What did that show?

[MimzMum]

One thing I would question is the use of Gatorade to rehydrate/ease blockages a rabbit. I thought that product had too much sugar in it to give to any animal, much less a rabbit, especially since bunnies can get a buildup of sugar in their systems that will cause other digestive troubles.
I’ve given plain Pedialyte to my dogs, but I also don’t think this is something rabbits can have. For irrigation, I’d rather use water in a syringe, a few milliliters at a time, so the bun doesn’t choke or aspirate water into it’s lungs. Sometimes a vet will give subcutaneous fluids to help get things moving.
Also, please be sure not to administer anything to any animal with xylitol in it (a sweetener) as this is a toxic chemical to them.

The binkies do sound good! Glad to hear she’s eating and some elimination of the hair is being observed. And the extra grooming is definitely a good idea. She probably is shedding a bit more as an emotional symptom of your absence, (I have a nervous shedder who loses the back of h is coat every car trip!), but that will fade with time hopefully. In the meantime, healing vibes to Dutchess! (((((((((vibes)))))))))))))) Please keep us updated on her progress.

[RabbitPam]

I think your eagerness to learn more about the physionomy and medical treatments of rabbits is very commendable. I read your post all at once just now, and it went from having difficulty paraphrasing your vet’s explanations to a detailed discussion of a very jargon heavy article. You have the makings of a rabbit advocate!
I would like to step in slyly llike Solomon with a suggested term: a HARE-ball.

The important thing is that you feel your vet is dong the best for your bunny, and what he prescribed is proving effective. I question the gatorade as well, unless it has something to do with the electrolyts. MM, Gatorade is not a highly sugared drink, which is why I’ve had it more in the past than most. But it is not plain water, which I prefer for bunnies. Even a juice flavoring can add sugars. Clearly it’s the fast hydration that he’s trying to use to make progress in bunny’s gut.
Keep us posted. If you agree that he is a bit old fashioned in his treatments, you can always seek out another rabbit savvy vet for a second opinion.

[Isabelle]

I also questioned the gatorade and did not use it on Dutchess, he did tell me the sugar free kind was toxic and not to use that, which scared me from using it at all. He said it was used to hydrate, but Dutchess hadn’t stopped drinking so I didn’t feel it was necessary. The vet did a physical exam and spent a bit of time checking in her whole mouth as well as feeling her belly. He didn’t do x-rays, diagnosing her from symptoms and experience. He said to bring her back in right away if she worsened or didn’t improve in the next two days, but she has, so we won’t need to go back.

Hareball, that’s cute. ^__^ RabbitPam: It was more of an emergency appointment. The clinic closed at 6 and I could just barely make it there with her at 5:40, so we couldn’t see her normal vet. The office selected the vet they felt had the most experience besides the one we go to. He was nice, but I will be continuing to take her to her regular rabbit savvy vet in the future, and I will make sure to ask about the hair ball and such and see her opinion.

Dutchess seems to be 100% now. I gave her a piece of lettuce today which she proceeded to eat just about as fast as she could chew. I ended up hand feeding her it in pieces she was chewing so fast, I didn’t want her to choke. I plan on stopping the pineapple juice now, and just continue to finish the course of antibiodic treatment. She’s proving to be quite a difficult syringe feeder now, and fights me terribly x.x She scampered around this afternoon, played with her toys, and even wanted me to chase her for a minute too, if her tail could have wagged I think it would have. Right now she’s flopped over near my feet next to the fireplace taking a nap.

It would appear my first bunny illness has been successfully healed, thank goodness!

[Author]

Messages