Bloat vs. GI stasis

[Deleted User]

Jerseygirl sent me this article after Mops had passed away. It does confrm what Dana Krempels had mentioned in a reply to me, and it explains why my vet’s measures didn’t save him. I do recall asking my vet why Mops was getting so cold. I was thinking it seemed like a bloat in a dog but I was not aware that rabbits can get this.

http://www.bunnylu.org/bloat.html

I don’t mean to scare anyone but it is such a good article and really worth knowing about.

 

 

[Sarita]

I’ve read this before and to tell you the truth in either case you need help from a vet. It sounds as if most of these stasis/gas/bloat type situations require the same type of treatment.

The thing with any continued bouts of stasis or anything else is to get to try to discover why the rabbit has these issues especially if it’s over and over and over.

I think it’s important to remember that when a rabbit stops eating there could be many causes of this including dental problems which is why it’s so important to have your vet do a physical examination and palpate the stomach and look in the mouth.

[Deleted User]

I just think this could explain why the subq’s didn’t work on Mops. They may have been too late, but the distention in Mops’ stomach was nothing like I have felt in rabbits with stasis.
I know I just need to put it to rest.

[Sarita]

It’s true you aren’t going to know – even if you had a necropsy done, you still may not know. You can only guess what you think it may have been. I think not knowing does make it a little harder to just put things to rest though. I know I did a few necropsy’s on some of my rabbits and they were never conclusive – but that’s just been my experience and that’s why I just decided not to do anymore, even when my vet’s offered and I think it would have helped them as well and maybe in the future if it’s an unexplained death I may have them do one…

[Andi]

Very good reading. I’ll be reposting this for others.

When Bo passed, we did a necroscopy, and were very surprised at the finding, a softball sized abcess on his right kidney. We had been treating him for an obstruction for the second time that eyar. So yes, I like ‘knowing’ but even then we have more questions (Was the first obstruction a Abcess? did ti go away? why did he get an abcess? how? etc. etc.).
I’ve had one rabbits body taken to a lab for a second look at when the Vet had to many questions of his own and needed a second opinion. So we’re not the only ones.

[Andi]

I passed this link on to my Vet, i share any good rabbit reading information with her.

Let me see if this information helps you sort through what you are reading:

 

Firstly, stasis and bloat are not different things. They are different manifestations of the same thing. Stasis is a mild form. Bloat is a rapidly developing serious form. Most medical conditions are a continuum. It is human nature to try and fit them into packages.

 

In the gut, gas is produced all the time. If you have a fairly normal flora and balance, it is not an issue. If you have a mild imbalance, stasis will form. If it is severe and sudden imbalance, you get bloat.

 

Much of what was written in the bloat article is right…but it is not a strictly bunny issue. It is indeed, much like it is in dogs. If the stomach suddenly starts to distend, it will press on the caudal vena cava (a huge blood vessel) and shock will ensue. The standard treatment for shock is fluids. Ideally, if you can get a vein, it is best. SQ fluids are the next best thing and will only not absorb if they are sooooo shocky that treatment would probably fail anyways. But IV fluids does a much better job of maintaining blood pressure which is the goal. (Problem with rabbits…is the best vein to catheterize is the saphenous and it is in a hind leg whose pressure will be compromised making it challenging to get an IV line placed.). All animals in shock will drop their temp. So temp, and fluids and pain management are the cornerstones of any shock support (trauma, or bloat, or otherwise –regardless of species). In rabbits, pain management is critical because they just keel over and die if they are hurt (they are a prey species). Decompression releases pressure on the vena cava and shock resolves. A stomach tube is best (and since rabbits seldom torse, or twist..this is a good option). To understand bloat…just thing about what it means to block the major vessel to your back half. Oops!

 

After you correct the distension, you need to get the gut moving in the right directions.  

Why do you get stasis or bloat? 7% for ulcers is not a high number. Stress is an issue. Bacteria are an issue. Abnormal diet is an issue. We still don’t know why dogs bloat (some do, some don’t) so don’t expect ‘real’ answers any time soon. (I still believe that rabbits are designed to eat a poor quality diet and our urge to ‘treat’ them causes more issues than it helps.) We are our own (and our rabbits’ worse enemy. Remembering what they are designed for helps to treat them.

And, this is posted from a Rabbit Savvy lady i know on another forum,

Very simplified:

1) STASIS
Is related to an overfull stomach and must be treated with stimulation of
the GI tract (massage, GI activity promoting agents, such as cisapride or
metoclopramide, but only if the blockage in not total), enzymatic solutions
such as Prozyme, Viokase-V or Bromelain and simethicone, in case gas is
present and fluids

2) BLOAT
It could mean bloating of the stomach, eventually cecum. Bloat = abnormal
collection of gas in the stomach, or cecum. In this case the stomach feel
swollen and the rabbit is in pain. Usually, when the rabbit is taken up, one
can here watery noises from the stomach. Sometimes there is diarrhea. It is
treated with steroid pain medication, fluids, antibiotics and simethicone.

Take it or leave it, or add it to the abundance of information we already have

oohhh, i do have a question though. I had someone on another forum tell me not to use a heating pad if the rabbit was having Bloat, something how the heat would make it worse. But I’ve not read that anywhere else, and quite the opposite if we’re talking decreased body temperature. When my guys ears are cold the and they are having gut issues, I always bring a heating pad out.  But becuase of that comment, it has worried me. Anyone else read anything to that?

 

[MimzMum]

I’ve never heard anything about heat being a problem in bloat situations, but then, I’ve only dealt with it in dogs. We weren’t really worried about temperature…the doc just told us to get them there as soon as possible for the best outcome.
I did not know that bunnies stomachs do not torsion. That is surprising. But I guess they don’t have to to block off the vena cava, since they are smaller animals. Have you ever seen the diagrams of a rabbits digestive tract? It’s worth a look. Fascinating and surprising that they don’t have more trouble with them than they do.

Sadly, I’ve asked my vet about bloat in bunnies. She is not of the mind that they can be treated with success. Surgery is, of course, an option, but very dangerous. With the distance required to drive between myself and my vet, by the time I would arrive, most likely she would recommend euthanasia. So I just have to pray it never happens to them…and do my best prevent the possibility…which is hard with the lack of data.

Why would the heat be bad? I would think any warmth at the site would help with pain at least…unless it makes the gas move into places that will cause more trauma?

I found that is was primarily diet that caused my dogs’ bloat. Had I realized the toxicity and malnutrition of the foods they were eating, I may have prevented the problem altogether. And with a large dog, surgery is a must, since the bloated stomach twists and it needs to be evacuated and then stitched to the abdominal wall to keep it from happening again. It gave them both another year of life, but sometimes I look back on it and think it was not really a happy one. They were never the same.

When it comes to my rabbits though, I panic with any stomach problem. I just never know what it’s going to be by the time I get them to their doctor. All I can do is pray it can be treated successfully. It would be nice to know though, more succinctly, what to look for, what is wrong and how to best keep the bunny comfortable while getting help.

[jerseygirl]

oohhh, i do have a question though. I had someone on another forum tell me not to use a heating pad if the rabbit was having Bloat, something how the heat would make it worse. But I’ve not read that anywhere else, and quite the opposite if we’re talking decreased body temperature. When my guys ears are cold the and they are having gut issues, I always bring a heating pad out. But becuase of that comment, it has worried me. Anyone else read anything to that?

From your own vets words:-

All animals in shock will drop their temp. So temp, and fluids and pain management are the cornerstones of any shock support (trauma, or bloat, or otherwise –regardless of species). In rabbits, pain management is critical because they just keel over and die if they are hurt (they are a prey species).

Pain meds and fluids are given first then the gas dealt with after. The meds and fluids will not help unless their temp is brought up so it’s critical.

I’d be interested to know why the other forum member has said this though. Like if the heat can make the pain worse? Or if there is a better way to raise their temp instead of a heating pad?

Thanks for posting your vets thoughts on this. I appreciate the simplified definitions between stasis and bloat. And the explanation that they are “different manifestations of the same thing”. This was part of my confusion on reading the article before.

[Andi]

jerseygirl, no one from here, another forum. I had always been a bit fearful since reading that comment. Anyways it was a while ago, and now I know it’s not a worry, but wondered if it was some sort of ‘known’ info read somewhere online or something. Notan an issue now

I’ve seen one dog with bloat at a clinic I worked in, unfortunately he didn’t make it. Just so aweful

[jerseygirl]

jerseygirl, no one from here, another forum. I had always been a bit fearful since reading that comment. Anyways it was a while ago, and now I know it’s not a worry, but wondered if it was some sort of ‘known’ info read somewhere online or something.

Oh yes, I understood it was from another forum – not BinkyBunny. And also wondered if it was some sort of “known” info.   Also if it was specific to rabbits or for dogs too. Something to do with a heating pad actually on the belly…..

[lashkay]

Could they mean that heating pads, like those microwave Snugglesafe heating discs, can become overly hot or have a hot spot where they can burn skin tissue if not sufficiently insulated from the skin of the animal? That’s the only thing I can think of why they might advise against it? (I have a Snugglesafe microwave disc I once put, wrapped in several layers of a piece of fleece blanket, under the hay in Buddie’s haybox when he was recovering from his neuter, but he had no desire to make use of it and avoided resting in his haybox. But I can see where the disc, swaddled in a towel or blanket might retain heat better than a unplugged heating pad, on the way to the vet. Do you advise the heating pad over the microwave disc?)

[bunnymum16]

one question,how can you tell apart bloat from stasis??

[jerseygirl]

Posted By bunnymum16 on 09/07/2010 12:49 AM
one question,how can you tell apart bloat from stasis??

Well that’s the thing. I’m not certain you can 100%. It would be guess work. I know I wouldn’t be confident to palpitate the belly and call it one way or the other. Though the article does say rapid onset for bloat, I think you can see similar GI symptoms or another issue then causing loss of appetite & gut slow down just as quickly.

As Sarita said, in either case you need help from the vet. It’s very much a judgement call for the owner. You need to assess how bad your rabbit is. Sometimes you can see a gut slow down, smaller poops, bunny not into food as much, may be positioning itself oddly etc and you can assist with diet and abdominal massage. However, if you’re seeing more signs of pain or shock, play it safe and go to vet. 

[bunnymum16]

i sure wish i dont have to go through bloat or stasis.i would feel so heartbroken to see my buns in pain.thats why im so strict about their diet and grooming although my boyfriend thinks im overdoing it.

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