what my vet said

[Bougatsa]

I took my bunny to the vet yesterday to talk about the spay. She asked me why I want her to get spayed and I said “I’ve heard that there’s a 85% danger for females to get cancer later if they arent spayed” and she said that I shouldnt believe everything I read on the internet and that the  percentage is not that high and not every bunny will get cancer. Then I asked about the pooping and peeing and she said tha pooping isnt connected to the hormones and it can be happening for a bunch of other different reasons. She said that this behavior depends on the bunny’s character and if she is spayed it might not change at all. I told her that it started when we got back from my parents house and she said that it might be it so it would be good to spend the summer there and see if she continues doing it there. And if I cannot take more of it then we talk about the spay. BUT she mentioned many many times that there is a danger for her to die on surgery. Cause this surgery is a lot more dangerous than a cat’s or a dog’s spay and the fact that she is a dwarf makes it even more dangerous. She said that no rabbit has ever died on her arms but that is not a guarantee that my bunny will survive too. Plus it’s even more expensive than I’ve been told. Now I really dont know what to do cause she scared me too much…i dont want to take responsibility  of my bunny’s death!!! I’m really really afraid and clueless about what to do….

And my bunny is afraid of me cause it was a real struggle to make her come to the vet and she was really scared there and now she poops even more and runs away from me!! I feel like crying…

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Honestly I’d find another vet asap.

Yest you should not believe whatever you read on the internet, otherwise the world is flat and no one has been to the moon and coke will melt your bumper and we are all due a big fortune from nigeria.

Also there are LOTS of truths on the internet, and one of them is me saying to you, that most specialists and good rabbit vets would NEVER question having a rabbit spayed. And any vet worth their salt would at least agree their is a possibility that your vet is not at all comfortable spaying your bunny. Most aren’t! Mine is on her way to being a specialist (she’s young still) because rabbits scared her-so she focused her DVM around rabbits and is working towards her board certification in it.

Succinctly: I’d say your vet is scared to do the surgery, and is trying to talk you out of it. If you’d like ‘non internet info’ on spaying etc-ask your vet for contact info for a board certified rabbit specialist-and ask them what they think

And to boot-your vet should NEVER make you think a decision your making for your animals health would lead to his death. It’s like anything, their is risk (just like you could slip in the shower) but no-it’s not proportionate and yes your bunny should be spayed.

But don’t take my word for it-call some specialist’s and ask them. Or call some other vets. The vet who gave you this info is inexperienced and/or scared of doing the surgery.

[Bougatsa]

The thing is that she does know a lot about rabbits and everyone here (greece, thessaloniki) say that she’s the best. She has done numerous spayed and neuters and had no death but as you said she wasnt positive on spaying. She said that if I had a pair of bunnies then yes she would definetely recommend it for them not to have babies. And she said that I should get her for a spay only if the pooping and peeing drive me crazy and have no other solution.
I cannot find another vet here, she’s supposed to be the best so imagine how the others would be…
really I dont know what to believe it’s getting me frustrated

[Karla]

I understand your frustration.

I agree that it sounds like your vet is not comfortable doing this surgery, and is trying to avoid it. Fair enough, but she should be honest with you instead. I like the fact that she even disagrees with Dana Krumpel, who is well-renowned in the rabbit world – she has a Ph.D in rabbit medicine and here you can read what she says about spaying:

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/spay.html

Your vet is not specialised in rabbits. And it is true you should not believe in everything on www, but then again, we shouldn’t listen to what people say who don’t know what they are talking about either.

It isn’t just a matter of removing the risk of cancer in your rabbit. To me, it is much more important that you remove all the stress and sexual frustration. Rabbits are made for reproducing, it is the whole point of their life. In the wild, they have a breeding season lasting from january to june, but house rabbits actually have a breeding season lasting all your around. Imagine how it must feel for your rabbit to have this physical urge to reproduce all the time? It is stressful, and also imagine having to live with such a high level of hormones all the time. Hell, I know how it feels when I have to go through that once a month, and my hormonal level is high. A female rabbit has to live with this every day.

Yes, there is a risk of spaying rabbits. There is a risk of spaying cats and dogs as well, but the risk is higher in rabbits, as they are smaller and not made in the same way as cats. So, if your vet is not comfortable doing this surgery, she is not the one, who should do it. Don’t you have other vets? I know how hard it was for you to actually go to this vet, but I hope it is possible that you can find another.

Aren’t there any Greek forums for house rabbits? Perhaps someone there can help you find a vet.

 

[jerseygirl]

K&K, I’ll just update you…Bougatsa is in Greece and rabbit vets are going to be very hard to find unfortunately. Bougatsa, I can’t say I’m all that surprised that the vet said this. I also think she’s not confident in spaying a rabbit. Some of what she said is right, bunnies can poop and pee inappropriately for other reasons but hormones certainly exacerbate the problem. A spay will not always change a bunnies character too. But I believe it will reduce the risk of cancer 100%. I’m sorry your visit was upsetting. You are trying to gain information and I agree you should try get other opinions.

As to Noahs current mood – don’t worry, it will pass now she is in familiar surroundings.

Edit: oops, I posted before I saw these other replies. Sorry about that.

[Bougatsa]

I am in greek forums and they were the ones that suggested taking my bunny to that particular vet. And from what they were telling me about the cancer possibility and the urge to spay female rabbits and that that vet has spayed rabbits succesfully I expected a whole different response form here. Now I’m lost again without any other vets to ask. Maybe I could give a call to a vet that works in Athens and ask for a second opinion. Of course I cant take my rabbit to him but I’ll have a secong opinion…but if I do decide to get her spayed should I trust this one?? I repeat that she hasnt lost any bunny yet and of course she had to point out the danger but she said that I should bring her for the spay when I cant take more of her behavior so this worries me…. I mean so many people here have their females spayed and everyone says that it makes them happier and the pooping stops and now they are going to have a healthy long life and then the vet says that this is not always the deal and it might not change anything.

[Monkeybun]

I’ll tell you what my vet told me when I talked to him about spaying Monkey…

He said that it is no more dangerous than a cat/dog spay, IF the surgeon has done the proper training, and has the confidence. My vet has never lost a bunny during a spay. His clinic is the only one in Oregon that caters to exotics only, he also teaches at the vet school here, so he hopefully knows what he is talking about.

It’s ok to be scared, I know I was. It helps to have the people here to talk to.

Oh, and about it being more dangerous cuz she is a dwarf… my girl is a nethie, a small nethie, at 1.5lbs (0.68kg), she was even smaller when she got spayed, and she came through just fine.

*hugs*

[jerseygirl]

In my opinion a spay will have the outright benefit of cancelling risk of uterine cancer. It is not a guarantee that it will fix all other issues but these can still be worked on and taking hormones out of the equation will certainly help. The cancer thing is the number one reason for spay in my book. So you may want to research this some so you can form your own opinion on it. I know it’s scary and it;s a big decision as she is dependant on you. You have to feel comfortable about this so I urge you to talk more to veterinary professionals. They don’t even have to be from your country. Email allows you to approach many more people from all over the world.

[Bougatsa]

Ι am going to ask more vets but still I can’t take my bunny to any of them cause they are far away. My only option is the vet I went yesterday and told me these things…she didnt mention the word “hormones” once!!! She didnt talk about cancer risk for more than 1 minute. When I asked why she poops and pees she said “its because she is getting older”. DUH doesnt that mean getting hormonal, guys??? And at the end she made me believe that my bunny is mean and has a bad character and that’s why she pees and poops. Should I trust her??

[jerseygirl]

Well you might have a difference of opinion with her on that. But if people on the other forum recommend her and have had their rabbits spayed by her, then she does have some experience.   It is important you feel comfortable with her though and your meeting with her hasn’t really helped with that.
 

And she said that I should get her for a spay only if the pooping and peeing drive me crazy and have no other solution.

So is she saying that she would do a spay then?
It is all rather confusing. Maybe it’s that she can do them but prefers not to?

[Bougatsa]

She said it’s completely up to me to decide…then I asked what advice she would give to me and she said again it’s up to me if I will take the risk. I expected her to say “it would save your bunny from the cancer” but she said nothing like that. So if I decide to go through with the surgery she would do it but no guarantees she will survive. She was not supporting at all so she made me worry more than before that my bunny might die… I dont feel comfortable with her at all. Not only with what she said but she wasnt friendly and made me wanna leave…but she is my only option unfortunately….

[Beka27]

Surgery is a risk for anybody and any animal, regardless of who is doing it and what the procedure is. Period. Surgery is risky.

Surgery is also beneficial. They would not have surgeries at all if the benefit did not outweigh the risk.

So it sounds like she will do the surgery if you want. And you want. So have her do the surgery. This all sounds pretty simple to me.

[Karla]

I went to a shelter in Pylaia just two weeks ago, and they had vet students coming to visit them and check the dogs. So, I reckon there is a vet school in Thessaloniki, if you want to try that out. It might be cheaper, and there might be a professor there with a speciality in rabbits who can do the surgery with the students watching (there should be, otherwise they can’t get lessons in exotic pets)

Other than that, I am quite sure that my vet wouldn’t know anything about the risk of cancer in rabbits either. He didn’t know anything about sludge either, until I told him about this…so, all I’m saying is that they don’t necessarily know all. For instance, it is common knowledge in my country that you must never ask a vet about behavioural problems in dogs, because they will tell you something completely wrong as behaviour is not part of the curriculum, only medical stuff is.

Go for it! And as you get ready for the spay, ask questions in here and we will guide you through post-op care.

[Bougatsa]

Actually this vet IS a teacher in the veterinary school of thessaloniki..the price is about the same as far as I know. Plus I know a student there and she said that people rarely take their pet there and then all the students fall on the pet and start doing a bunch of tests and stuff…and they say the same thing about spaying, that it’s too dangerous. so she adviced me not to take my bunny there.
So you guys think that I should go with it no matter what?? Ignore the warnings about my bunny not surviving??

[Karla]

Yes, I think you should. I know why you are worried. I have felt the exact same way every time one of mine had to be sedated – it is a risk every time. I know even some vets require that you sign a piece of paper when you hand the pet over that says if the animal dies, it is your responsibility. They do that even with dogs and cats. She has to inform you of the risk. Because it IS risky to undergo surgery – even for us humans.

From what I know, the risky part of a spay is whether or not your bunny is kept warm during and after the surgery. So ask her about this. And make sure you get your bunny home straight away, so you can look after her and keep her warm. All of us have neutered bunnies, so we know your concerns.

And your vet sounds like she knows what she is doing since she is a professor. She just has to warn you. If she made you think that surgery and sedation isn’t risky, she wouldn’t be a professional.

Hmm, a bit creepy about the vet school. Didn’t know that.

[BinkyBunny]

Wow, that really has to be rough. I take it so for granted having so many rabbit savvy vets near me which have a completely different belief about this than the vet you visited. And of course, you have heard first hand in the greek forums how spaying/neutering helped the habits and you will find many of the same success stories here in this forum as well. I’m sorry that vet was cold and I’m sorry she scared you. Since it really looks like you don’t have many choices then you are left with her— she seems to be your best bet to doing this operation successfully. Even with all of her warnings she has said she never lost a rabbit and so she may be one of the safest choices. Did she say how many rabbits she has actually done?

I would also talk to the greek forum members who have had this done successfully with this vet and let them know what happened with the visit,  and see if you can get some comfort directly from other patients/clients who may have gone through the same warnings and feelings from this vet. I mean, if she was this way with you, then I’m sure she was no different with them….so what made other rabbit owners continue on? Talk to them about it and I’ll bet you’ll feel better.

Keep us updated about how this works out. Again, I’m sorry for the anxiety that this has put you through. HUGS!

[Bougatsa]

Τhank you so much for the support! All of you are great! The only ones that care about my bunny…everyone else say to give my bunny up and I cant do that!! Absolutely NOT! And then they say “what if you pay 200 euros and then your bunny doesnt change and keeps pooping and stuff???”… And then I dont know what to say to them cause I know that there is a chance that this will happen..
Actually I decided to go for the spay but probably in summer cause I need to have one more conversation with my parents cause I really really need them to help me this time. I’m very upset those last 2 days I cant even sleep at night cause I cant stop thinking about what to do and if it’s worth it. I even dream about it when I finally get some sleep!! It’s a stressfull experience for me and I cant go through it without the support of my parents so I have to convince them to help me out. And when I read your experiences I get some courage and hope that everything will go just fine.

No the vet didnt say the number of rabbits she has spayed, only that she has never lost one..On monday I’m going to call this vet in Athens to give me some advice and tell me his opinion on the matter.

[Beka27]

If she is really so against spaying, and thinks it’s dangerous and unnecessary, then why does she perform the procedure at all? Many vets (even here in the US!) will say you don’t have to spay girls as long as they’re with a neutered male. The surgery to remove cancer later on in life is much more risky and expensive, with a higher chance of not working than a spay. I’d rather spay my bunny while she was young and healthy, than have her undergo a dangerous surgery when she’s already sick and frail.

[RabbitPam]

I just checked the HRS website and was sorry to find they do not have any listings for Greece in their international rec. vets list.

So it may be as BB said, which is that she is the best to do the surgery. Beka makes a good point too – that it is a simple decisiion and to just go forward.

The vet has made it clear that it’s up to you. She has an awful bedside manner and I would try to find another vet for other treatments, or one that comes recommended for this, but as it stands, I would only ask her two more questions:
One – how many has she done; (If she hasn’t lost any, and only done 3, she’s inexperienced. I agree that she sounds scared.)
Two – should you fast your bunny before the surgery? If she says Yes, do not use that vet. That’s the wrong answer. You should feed her normally that day. This is the test for any vet you choose. Don’t let a receptionist answer for the vet, but you can call to make the appointment and ask her those two questions without getting into further discussion. Just ask her to leave you a message with her answers.

It also sounds like she may have had a bad experience with another pet owner, and is covering her legal butt. Doctors get sued, and are increasingly upset at the prospect, so give you a long scary list of the worst case scenarios every time. It’s like the warning list in an aspirin bottle. So, she succeeded in scaring you badly, to be sure you won’t hold her responsible. It does not mean your bunny will die, unless she is masking her own inability to do it. Back to questions one and two in that case.

I think at this stage, you need to take the poo/pee issue out of the decision. Spay for its own health benefit, then see how she is and treat the poo issues if necessary. She may just need a change of litter, or a bigger pan, or hay in one corner. But getting her spayed is for her long term health, and to avoid future pregnancy. It can be decided solely on that basis.

If this vet is as good as her reputation, no one can give you another name to work with, and her answers are OK, just book the appointment and get it done. Period. I would love to see you find the “second best vet in the area” and try again with someone else though. Sometimes another vet will have good bedside manner, be knowledgeable, and want to gain more experience. You might call more vets to try that route.

It is very upsetting to encounter an arrogant, scary doctor. Some vets go into the practice because they have poor people skills! I personally never go back to a doctor of any kind that makes me upset, but your choices are limited. I am thinking that if another vet can’t be found, do the procedure, tell her how much you are offended by her talks with you, and take the bunny to someone else for future treatments. She may be a decent surgeon (which I question) but she is not a good vet.

[Deleted User]

I understand that any vet may decline a procedure but you as the rabbit’s owner should not have to explain why you want this done at all. It is your call.

[bunnnnnnie!]

Posted By Petzy on 05/17/2010 09:39 AM
I understand that any vet may decline a procedure but you as the rabbit’s owner should not have to explain why you want this done at all. It is your call.

 

Yup, I agree.  I’d say “Well thank you for your professional opinion, but I will still be going ahead with the spay.  Let’s set up an appointment!”.

[MarkBun]

Posted By Petzy on 05/17/2010 09:39 AM
I understand that any vet may decline a procedure but you as the rabbit’s owner should not have to explain why you want this done at all. It is your call.

 

I’m going to disagree with you on this one Petzy.  I believe that a responsible vet would question any procedure that the client wants done that they, themselves, believe is unnecessary.  The vet in question may be ill informed about rabbits but that doesn’t mean she’s not looking out for the best interest for the animal – as far as she knows.

But I am going to agree that this vet doesn’t seem to know what they are talking about when it comes to the cancer stat.  I get my information from Dr. Carloyn Havey who is one of the top 5 rabbit vets in the US and she’s the one that told me about the high uterine cancer chances in rabbits.  If it is even as much as 20%, I would still want my rabbit to have the surgery – those aren’t good odds.

She is correct about the peeing and pooping – there are many factors that can determine it and some people here have unaltered rabbits that live very clean lifestyles.  However, I do believe that territorial marking and spraying decreases with the decrease in hormones that accompany being altered – and it is what many shelters and vets also believe.  Less hormones mean less aggression which also means less need to enforce their territorial boundaries.  But if she has just moved, then she does need to make the new space ‘hers’ and will probably poop for 3 months.

Any animal has danger in surgery.  Rabbits tend to be a bit more risky than cats and dogs due to their high heart rate and metabolism but the risk of cancer is much higher than that of surgery.  And for boy rabbits, the alteration is done so quickly that the risk is almost non-existant.

 

[Deleted User]

Posted By MarkBun on 05/17/2010 10:26 AM

Posted By Petzy on 05/17/2010 09:39 AM
I understand that any vet may decline a procedure but you as the rabbit’s owner should not have to explain why you want this done at all. It is your call.

 

I’m going to disagree with you on this one Petzy.  I believe that a responsible vet would question any procedure that the client wants done that they, themselves, believe is unnecessary.  The vet in question may be ill informed about rabbits but that doesn’t mean she’s not looking out for the best interest for the animal – as far as she knows.

It is a vet’s prerogative to decline. I think it is silly, though, since vets perform unnecessary  procedures all the time;  declaw operations on cats, euthanasia on healthy pets, debarking dogs… if I went to a vet and had to explain why I want a spay done — I would just find a new vet. I don’t think legally speaking a pet owner has to justify why they want a spay.

[bunnnnnnie!]

Posted By Petzy on 05/17/2010 10:38 AM

Posted By MarkBun on 05/17/2010 10:26 AM

Posted By Petzy on 05/17/2010 09:39 AM
I understand that any vet may decline a procedure but you as the rabbit’s owner should not have to explain why you want this done at all. It is your call.

 

I’m going to disagree with you on this one Petzy.  I believe that a responsible vet would question any procedure that the client wants done that they, themselves, believe is unnecessary.  The vet in question may be ill informed about rabbits but that doesn’t mean she’s not looking out for the best interest for the animal – as far as she knows.

It is a vet’s prerogative to decline. I think it is silly, though, since vets perform unnecessary  procedures all the time;  declaw operations on cats, euthanasia on healthy pets, debarking dogs… if I went to a vet and had to explain why I want a spay done — I would just find a new vet. I don’t think legally speaking a pet owner has to justify why they want a spay.

 

It sounds like the OP doesn’t have the luxury of alternate vets, though.

[Deleted User]

It was my understanding that Bougatsa lives in Thessaloniki, the capital of Macedonia. This is a huge city and she chose the best vet. If this is the best vet there must be others to at least look into.

[Sarita]

You know, I’m sure that she is an excellent vet but I have to be honest, I’m not entirely sure I would want her to spay my rabbit if she’s not experienced enough and if she’s not on board with why spaying is important and it could be that she is not recommending it simply because she is not comfortable doing this. And really that’s okay, many many vets in the US are not comfortable and will not spay a rabbit. Luckily we have many choices in the US and I think we probably have the most experienced vets when it comes to pet rabbits here.

I don’t think it’s wrong for a vet to give their opinion and options either – maybe the owner is not fully aware of risks and it’s the vet’s responsibility to explain any and all risks and benefits too. It’s up to the owner to decide if the risks outweigh the benefits or vice versa.

[kralspace]

I agree with several others, it sounds like she’s just not comfortable doing the spays. It is very different from cats and dogs, since they have 2 horns instead of the one uterus and putting them under is tricky.

One reason I like my vet so much is she told me right off that she didn’t do spays. She had seen several done,studied it and even did a couple herself sucessfully and decided it was better left to those who do them on a daily basis because it is so different. She has no hesitation about referring people to the vets in Dallas who specialize in it. She does neuter the boys and I’ve very comfortable with her treating my bunnies.

[Bougatsa]

I dont know guys. It’s just that everyone in the greek forums recommended her, which means that they’ve tried with others that didnt have a clue when it came to rabbits. I’d like to find a list of the vets in Thessaloniki but I have no idea where that list could be found. Do you think that there is a possibility that I’ll find someone that is just not “discovered” yet?? But I doubt it cause there arent many bunny owners that actually know about the need for spaying here and I believe that we would be informed if there was a vet who is reliable.. oh and tomorrow I’m calling a vet in Athens that as fas as I know(from forum members that live in Athens and had their females spayed there) is aware of the chances of cancer and is very experienced. He knows the vet that I visited here in Thessaloniki so maybe he could tell me what he thinks of her and if she is reliable enough to trust her…

[kralspace]

I hope you do find one you like. I just have to say it is so cool to know that when you say you’re going to Athens, it’s not the little town east of Waco here in Texas, but the real deal! There was a discussion recently and several of us admitted our love for Latin and greek history so it’s amazing to hear about you traveling among these towns we’ve only read about….lol

[Bougatsa]

Haha well I’m not going to Athens I’m just calling a doctor there (even though I’ve been to Athens sometimes)..but same here when we hear about New York, Los Angeles etc, cities that we can only watch on movies

[Deleted User]

Good luck, Bougatsa, in your quest to getting your bunny spayed. Rest assured that it IS well worth it! A spayed bunny is a really great pet!

Do the people in your Greek forum have unspayed rabbits? I’m wondering because they recommended this vet to you.

[Bougatsa]

That vet is recommended by people who have taken their bunnies to her and were really impressed with her. She was also recommended to people in Thessaloniki by this great vet in Athens…and the creator of the forum was very impressed by her even though her female bunny was spayed by the one in Athens and the male at another one who also doesnt live in Thessalonki and only neuters. but know that you mentioned it… I dont really know if anyone has actually had their bunnies spayed by this vet…. wow…maybe it’s because they havent replied on my threads???Maybe because she knows a lot about rabbits they recommended her for spays too?? But she HAS DONE spays…Hmm I’ll ask!!

[MarkBun]

I don’t think that she’s ill informed personally. She sounds like a great vet with all of the options and concerns she mentioned. Here is the information about the ‘magic 80%’ for cancer in females.  
Source: Ann NY Acad. Sci. 75:535-542 Green, 1958.

This is perhaps the best article, and probably where everyone gets the often quoted 80% figure. Greene monitored a colony of rabbits over a long period of time (8-10 years). All rabbits dying from whatever causes were necropsied. 16.7% of 849 rabbits were found to have uterine adenocarcinoma. The average age of the colony was greater than 4 years, which is important, because most lab rabbits are under 24 months of age. The tumor incidence in Greene’s colony was very closely linked to age. In rabbits dying between 2 and 3 years of age the incidence of cancer was 4.2%. In rabbits 5-6 years of age the incidence is 79.1% (the mythical 80%). Note: these rabbits did not necessarily DIE from the cancer, but there were tumors after their death.

 

Statistics are a funny thing. Without knowing how many rabbits died at age 5-6, the percentage is somewhat useless (if it was only 5 rabbits that died in this age range, then it’s not a good measure).  It shows that 17% of the colony when they died had tumors on their uterus.  Without a breakdown of female numbers and how many died at what age, the numbers are always subjective.

For me though, the fact that Dr. Harvey says it is in a female rabbit’s best interest to be spayed is all I need to hear to do it. 

[MimzMum]

Posted By MarkBun on 05/17/2010 02:30 PM

Statistics are a funny thing. For me though, the fact that Dr. Harvey says it is in a female rabbit’s best interest to be spayed is all I need to hear to do it. 

I’ll say amen to that. I was diagnosed with cancer 5 years ago with only a 10-20% chance of the disease. That meant a 80-90% chance I didn’t have it. So odds are not always with you.

I had a vet who was very versed in rabbitry, plus all her other charges who were dogs, cats, horses and exotics like birds/parrots…but I just didn’t like her attitude. Most of the time, I’d ask for something for my pet only to have her kind of condescend to me and make me feel stupid. I shopped around and found someone I like much better for her treatment both of me and all my animals. She is not what I would call a highly talked-up vet, but I got lucky finding her by asking other vets who they’d recommend for bunnies. So whether your vet is qualified or not, if something doesn’t feel right about her, it can’t possibly hurt to ask around and get a hopefully better option.

Good luck to you!

 

[Karla]

Posted By Bougatsa on 05/17/2010 01:33 PM
I dont know guys. It’s just that everyone in the greek forums recommended her, which means that they’ve tried with others that didnt have a clue when it came to rabbits. I’d like to find a list of the vets in Thessaloniki but I have no idea where that list could be found. Do you think that there is a possibility that I’ll find someone that is just not “discovered” yet?? But I doubt it cause there arent many bunny owners that actually know about the need for spaying here and I believe that we would be informed if there was a vet who is reliable.. oh and tomorrow I’m calling a vet in Athens that as fas as I know(from forum members that live in Athens and had their females spayed there) is aware of the chances of cancer and is very experienced. He knows the vet that I visited here in Thessaloniki so maybe he could tell me what he thinks of her and if she is reliable enough to trust her…

I am confident that there could be a great rabbit-savvy vet in Thessaloniki without anyone on the greek forum knowing about it. I am not so thrilled about these lists that rabbit.org for instance puts out, but that is just because I don’t find that they were true for my area.

Have you called the vet in Athens yet?

I guess my decision was so much easier. I never got to talk to the vet, who did Molly’s spay. I handed her in to another vet, who didn’t know a thing about rabbits, and he told me someone else was doing the spay. And the next day I picked her up…without any pain meds for her. So, no, I was not happy with the situation, but I never had to worry beforehand because I didn’t ask any questions, except whether or not they would make sure she was kept warm during and after surgery.

 What I did when I tried to find a vet for my bunnies was simply to look at all the vets’ websites. If they didn’t mention rabbits on their website, then I crossed them off my list. Also, here most vets have a small profile in which they write what pets they have at home…so I looked for any small animals. Any chance that the vets in Thessaloniki and the nearby area have websites you can check out?

 

[Karla]

Posted By MarkBun on 05/17/2010 02:30 PM
This is perhaps the best article, and probably where everyone gets the often quoted 80% figure. Greene monitored a colony of rabbits over a long period of time (8-10 years). All rabbits dying from whatever causes were necropsied. 16.7% of 849 rabbits were found to have uterine adenocarcinoma. The average age of the colony was greater than 4 years, which is important, because most lab rabbits are under 24 months of age. The tumor incidence in Greene’s colony was very closely linked to age. In rabbits dying between 2 and 3 years of age the incidence of cancer was 4.2%. In rabbits 5-6 years of age the incidence is 79.1% (the mythical 80%). Note: these rabbits did not necessarily DIE from the cancer, but there were tumors after their death.

Quite interesting. I would still spay for all the other reasons, but this is very interesting.

What is the name of the article by Greene for which this study was conducted?

[Bougatsa]

I’m calling the vet later today. I will inform you on everything he says to me.
Well I found almost 100 vets on the golden pages on the internet so I’ll call some of them. I doubt they’ll have a website but I’ll check anyway.

[Bougatsa]

Okay
I called the one in Athens. He knows about the cancer thing and he says that over 70% die of this. He said it is for the bunny’s own good and that I should go for it. I told him what the vet here said and he knows her, he refers to her with her first name, and he says that she is really good. IT IS a risky surgery either way but the risk is minimum if we compared it to the risk of getting cancer later on. So he adviced me to trust her cause she knows what she is doing no matter what she said to me…he was like “since you want to have your bunny spayed you shouldnt mind what she says and believes about that”.

And I called like 5 vets here.
1)”wow girl you are calling me to ask if I do spays???”…and when I asked him if he has experience he hesitated and didnt reply for a few secs and then said “yes I do”. So REJECTED.
2)He said that the spay should be done when the bunny is at least 16 months old.
3)didnt spay
4)didnt spay
5)only does dogs
None of them made an issue about the cancer and didnt talk about this at all. They all think that the only reason I should spay m bunny is if I had a pair. Oh and everyone said that female bunnies dont mark and that hormones have nothing to do with it. Should I go looking for more??Cause all of these were really disappointing..

[Karla]

I say, stick with the vet that the one in Athens recommends. Okay, so she didn’t seem that friendly, but she is apparently good at the surgery and is rabbit-savvy and you are not supposed to hold a conversation with her anyway.

The people on the other forum recommend her and so does this vet. Your bunny will be in safe hands, I’m sure.

[Sarita]

I agree with Karla.

[Beka27]

I would also go with the vet everyone (including the vet in Athens!) recommends. She doesn’t have the best “bed-side” manner, but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t know what she is doing. You’re going to her for her services, not to be her best friend. You are well-informed and you know what it is you want done. She says she does spays with a high success rate, so I believe she is experienced.

[Bougatsa]

I havent arranged for the spay yet cause I had a personal problem and had to spend most of my money so I dont have enough yet. Damn! But actually I contacted the veterinary school here and they said that they do spays but again mentioned the danger of the anesthesia which is logical. they said that you have to sign a form that makes you responsible for the anesthesia. The price is 100 euros which is the half of what the other doctor asked. Oh ang as I’ve already mentioned the vet I went to actually works there and I guess she does the spays to rabbits…she has just opened her own vet office to have gain more money, right?? So should I concider this?? Cause I’m really sort of money…

[SukiBun]

Well, at the end of the day, what are anyone’s reasons for opening their own office? She’s just branching out, and yes it is a business. that aside, you’d need to make sure she is definitely the vet who would be doing the spay at the veterinary school, if not it kind of defeats the object. Consider it if you know she will definitely be doing the spay.

She’s a vet, so although it may be her ‘professional opinion’ she needs to look at the bunny’s best interests, as well as cancer, we’re also looking at hormones, frustration etc, it’s not fun! Also, I think unless we are taking an animal to the vet because there is something wrong/an emergency, we see the vets doing what needs to be done. It’s different in this case as we’re taking them to the vets asking for a procedure to be done…. does that make sense?

As for the anaesthesia and signing of forms, that’s pretty much a necessity anywhere, it’s so they have informed you and that you are aware, not responsible as such, as it’s not you who is administering it! But you know what I mean, they have to cover themselves.

[jerseygirl]

Is this at the Aristotle University? I was looking at the web on this last week. It seemed there were a few vets that handled exotics. But I’m uncertain as I had to do translations for much of the text. Anyway, I think it’s a good option if they have a functioning clinic for the public.

[Bougatsa]

Sukibun I’m def going to ask if she is the one that does the spays but I believe that she is cause on the Veterinary Clinic website hers was the only name below the “exotic animals unit”. It would be weird though if I actually decide to have her spay my bunny there and not at her office. But she charges almost the double money which I cant afford. Now I’m waiting for an e mail by the doctor that does the anesthesia. I’m going to ask more questions when he replies.

Jerseygirl sorry my text was difficult for you to read…it was messy cause I was cooking at the same time adn didnt pay much attention. Yes it is the Aristotle University and the Veterinary School has a clinic for the public.

The only things that worries me is that I have heard that it’s a bit unorganised but IF the same vet does the spay (the woman I went to) then it seems the same to me ..right?

[jerseygirl]

Jerseygirl sorry my text was difficult for you to read…

Bougatsa, your post are easy to read – your English is great. I meant I was translating the Vet Clinic webpage as it was written in Greek.

 

[Bougatsa]

OH MY GOD I just read a thread by a member of the greek forum…She took her bunny for spay today and the bunny died!!The vet said that “the bunny was very sensitive to the anesthetics which is very rare”. I dont know who the vet was but she said that people recommended that one to have knowledge on rabbits…oh my god I’m so frightened right now..how am I going to take my bunny for her spay???!!!And I’m so sorry for the girl!

[Deleted User]

This is very disconcerting. Ask your vet beforehand which anesthetic she is going to use. This is a  quote from an article by Dana Krempels about rabbit anesthesia

(ii) If the veterinarian is using isoflurane or sevoflurane, the gas anesthetic of choice, body weight is not an issue, since the gas is adminstered through the respiratory tract. Even though isoflurane gas is more expensive than injectible anesthetics, it is worth the extra cost to ensure a safer surgery and faster recovery.

This is from http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/opcare.html

You might want to discuss this article with your vet so she knows your concern and so you can find out exactly if she is well-versed in rabbit anesthesiology.

[bunnyluvr]

Let me tell you a story of what happened to me and one of my bunnies.

Several years ago a co-worker brought me a bunny that she had seen hopping around her neighborhood for a couple of weeks (poor bun was stained green/yellow/brown all over his little feets and belly and looked like he’d been roughing it for a while). The bunny just hopped right up to her in her driveway and let her pick him up. She put him in a big box with some lettuce and a carrot and brought him to me at work. I was originally planning on finding a home for him but after spending an hour or so with him I was in love and decided to keep him and named him Cinnabun (his coloring/markings made him look like a cinnamon roll! ) and took him home. He was a wonderful rabbit – funny, mischievous, playful and very, very cuddly but he definitely needed to be neutered as he was spraying and humping anything and everything that moved (or didn’t for that matter! ). I set up an appointment for his neuter when he’d been with us for about a week. A few hours after dropping him off I got a call from the vets saying they lost him when they were bringing him out of the anesthesia, that he wouldn’t wake up. My heart was broken – he was such an amazing bunny and I was looking forward to having him for many years to come. The vet said she thought he may of had a weak heart and that it just couldn’t take the anesthesia. She asked how long we had him and I explained how we got him. She then said it could have been that being as he was loose outside for so long and then moved in with us that he was stressed and that could be why his heart couldn’t take it. This made me feel worse (although I’m sure that wasn’t her intention). If only I had waited then I might not have lost him.

Later I needed to get my sweet Boogie Girl spayed. I was a nervous wreck to do it and even held off for awhile because I was so scared I would lose her too. But I knew that it was what was best for her health and when I weighed the good that it could do for her against the likelihood that it would happen again (it is very rare) I decided to put my fears aside and got it done. I was so scared the whole time but the vet (same one) knew I was extremely nervous because of what happened to Cinnabun and they made sure to keep me informed of what was going on and when she woke up – boy was I happy to get that call! And even happier when I picked up my beautiful girl and she was groggy but fine.

Hope this helps you in some way. Just wanted you to know that this had happened to me as well and I still chose to get my bunny done. The health risks are just to great with a girl bunny to not do it. I know you will be nervous and scared but remember that it is for her and her health. You want her to enjoy a long and healthy life with you. In my opinion the benefits outweigh the risks. Of course it is your decision.

[RabbitPam]

I think bunnyluvr makes an excellent case for taking a chance. It could happen to any of us, human or bunny, for any procedure. It’s really a wonder we are all so able to undergo some of the things we do. I agree that the prospect of cancer in the bunny outweighs the risk for this procedure. If it’s fear of anesthesia, it is going to be an issue if she gets ill and needs treatment down the road. Being prepared for the worst, and expecting the best, is really all any of us can do. It is your choice, but you can hear about cases that ended either way. For most of us here, we have good outcomes and results from the surgery and our bunnies are in good health.

[Bougatsa]

Oh guys I wish I lived in America where you do have very good vets. Here I only have one choice and still I’m not sure if I can trust them!! The very first thing they told me when I asked if they do spays is the risk of not surviving the anesthesia because it’s a lot more dangerous than it is for a cat or a dog. I want to have her spayed, I really do but I cannot make up my mind and do it cause I cant stop thinking that I might do the choice that will kill my bunny..

[The Rabbit]

I don’t like the sound of this. My Vet is absolutely wonderful. She (and I) Believe that all pets should be spayed. This vet sounds like they did more harm than good, telling you those things. The Vet I go to told me there is a much higher risk in non-spayed rabbits for cancer. I’d go to another vet—you are the pet owner. The fact that they said those things sends up warning signals in my mind, and I certainly wouldn’t trust them with the surgery. But that’s just me.

[Bougatsa]

If you read the whole thread you’ll see that I dont have any other options…

I went to the only vet that has experience (I’ve called several others and had no experience) and she said that it’s risky. And it costs 200 euros…then I found out about the Veterinary School Clinic where the same woman does the spays (she has opened her own office too) and it costs 100 euros. So I choose the clinic cause in both cases the same vet will do the spay. The other vets in the clinic mentioned that it’s risky like the woman did… So it’s them or nothing.

[Monkeybun]

It is risky, but its more risky to not do it. That is my opinion, but don’t let is scare you. I was scared for my little girl too, but she pulled through just fine

[Bougatsa]

Ι’m waiting for an e-mail reply and then I’m going to know if they have ever lost bunnies while spaying and what kind of anesthetics they use (gas or injectables). If they say what I want them to say I’m going to go for it for the end of June of begging of July. If not…I have no idea what I’m going to do.

[Karla]

Read any thread in here and you will find that we have all been extremely nervous before any castration or spay…I wasn’t particularly brave either when my girl was to be spayed. I decided to do it the day after I got her, so I wasn’t attached to her. And I let the vet keep her overnight (which is unusual here) just so I didn’t have to see her waking up from the anesthetics . Of course, you are already very attached to your girl and that is why the decision is hard.

You have to do what you find is right in your heart. I believe we will all support you no matter what.

Vets don’t do spays here very often, but I would not hesitate to have it done, either. As long as the vet is willing to learn and research about rabbits, I can live with the fact that he/she is not rabbit-savvy (because I don’t have any other option).

If the vet says they use the “wrong” type of anestethics, then don’t reject them. You are the customer, and they have to do what you ask for. So simply demand that they use this particular type for your bunny.

[Bougatsa]

Oh Karla you give me a lot of courage everytime…I guess it would be easier for me to spay her after getting her. Though when I got her I had no idea about the spaying…I found out after a lot of research on bunnies.

It’s just than in my head I wont stop having this image me of going to the doctor just to hear “your bunny didnt make it through the spay, we’d warned you”… Oh and this thread I read yesterday in the greek forum…so frustrating. The girl said that the doctor used to work in England and had experience cause rabbits are more common pet there and she said that he used injectable anesthetics…and the necropsy showed that she was sensitive to that. Such a wrong time for me to read this!!

[Karla]

I hope the e-mail from the vet will help you with your decision.

Everytime I’ve brought my now late bunny in for any treatment involving anesthetics, I have worried just like you. I was sure every time that the vet would tell me the same as you fear. However, I have comforted myself that should it happen then it is a blissful death. But don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to talk the risk down at all.

I’ve just found this written by a vet regarding the risk of anesthetics:
“The end result is that in the only big study I know of examining anesthetic risk, the anesthetic death rate in pets was about 1 in 400. (…) Once a client experiences an anesthetic death, it can be very hard to convince them that anesthesia is usually successful, for obvious reasons”

You know, some vets actually let the owner watch the surgery…not sure if you are in for it, but you could ask about this, if it would make you feel better? I’ve seen cats wake up during spays (and they were fine afterwards), so not sure if I would recommend it, but I know bunny owners who have watched their rabbits be castrated.

Another thing is that if you read this http://www.vetinfo.com/danthdeath.html it actually says the biggest risk is the fact that there is no one else but the vet in there to both supervise and do the surgery – but since you are going for the vet school solution, there will in fact be students, so I’m quite sure she will be supervised by those!

[Bougatsa]

Thank you for comforting me… Still waiting for the email…why is this taking so long? It’s only an e-mail for god’s sake I’m not asking them to come over to my house lol.

So the girl’s bunny that died was the one in 400 :S and her vet told her that it is very rare for this to happen even though he used injectable anesthetics.

[Bougatsa]

I sent another e mail to add a couple of questions(kind of anesthesia and the dwarf thing) and then I had a reply. The doctor said that they dont have the time to keep replying to my mails and I should go there to ask whatever I want. And he said “I dont understand how it would be useful for you to know what kind of anesthetics we use and we are just wasting our time answering these questions, I’m sorry but the discussion wont continue”. I HATE vets!!! Every and each one of them was very rude whenever I ask these questions!! To hell with them!!! god people are so bad!!!!!

[ILoveLucy]

Bougatsa – Best of luck! I will be thinking about you. I too really struggled with the spay decision. Lucy is my first rabbit (my first pet really) and I can’t BARE the thought of losing her. She’s my only bunny, and she doesn’t have any behavior or marking issues, so it’s been really hard for me to decide to take the risk of getting her spayed.
But then I thought about how much WORSE I would feel if five years from now she gets really sick because I was too scared to scared to get her spayed. I would never be able to forgive myself. Heaven forbid there are complications from her surgery and I lose her…I would rather lose her knowing I was doing my best to keep her healthy, then lose her from NOT doing what everyone has told me I should.

So even though I am scared about her appointment next week…I do feel like I am making the right decision.

Bunnyluvr – thank you for that story!

[RabbitPam]

Bougatsa,
It sounds like this particular vet is not helping to relieve your fears, and that is compounding them. I am concerned that you will have a bad experience with them because of this. So let’s step back and look at the situation’s options.

Presently, this is the only available vet, and they are covering themselves by warning you of the risks. That’s common with medical professions now so they can say you were warned. That doesn’t mean that the chances of loss are high, just that they exist. So one option is to get it over with quickly, heave a sigh of relief when it’s done, and de-stress after the fact. It may be worth it.

Another option is waiting, but not for that long. I’m thinking 6 months to a year at the most. That leaves the possibility that a new vet becomes available to you, so you can check them out instead.
Or, by then, possibly this current vet changes their tune, or their bedside manner, and you feel more comfortable. You can let them know that you find their whole approach to you very alarming, and you would appreciate it if they would be informative and professional. You will not work with them until they are willing to work with you. I don’t know how they would respond to that.

It’s not really “either do it now or have my bunny die in 5 years.” You have some time before it becomes quite so risky. If you got a male bunny, that’s another story since it risks pregnancy too.

Personally, I would attempt to be clear to this particular vet that they are upsetting me greatly, that they have diminished all confidence in their ability to perform the procedure, and do they want to do it or not? If they do, then they had better understand that it is your right to ask as many questions as you need to, that you expect a complete and reasonable answer, and they are being paid to take as much time as is necessary to do a thorough job when a life is at stake. You are not going to have a good relationship with them, but if they can do the procedure well, get it done and get out. Hopefully by the time you need another vet visit, you’ll have located a new one.

By the way, is there an animal control officer in your area that works with strays and rescues? Because they may be able to direct you to another vet that they like but is not known to as many people.

[Karla]

I think the e-mail was quite rude, and I can understand that you are put off with the thought of using that vet.

However, all I can say, is that my vet is not very polite either. First time, I brought Jack in for his dental trim, he told me to have him put to sleep instead, as it was “just” a rabbit. He kept saying that to me the next couple of times, I was there, but eventually he stopped. He has made really rude comments, and there have been times where I walked off so angrily and frustrated afterwards. HOWEVER, he did the best he could every time, and eventually, I do feel that he and I have come to a good understanding about my rabbits. I have asked questions as well, which I am sure he felt was rude, as it seemed I was questioning his knowledge (which might be how your vet felt), and he has not answered them well at first.

We have talked many times about finding another vet…but we have to the conclusion that with all my visits, he is now the most rabbit-savvy vet in the area only because of my bunny, Jack. So I will stick with him, and I am actually fine with it. I live with his rude comments and lack of understanding of rabbits as pets, but I know he is a professional and that he will do his best for all his patients…just like I am confident that your vet will.

Also, it is a vet school, you are considering. It is my impression that they may in fact be much more careful there as the students will keep asking the vet questions forcing him to be up to date and aware of everything that is going on during the surgery…if you know what I mean?

[Bougatsa]

Well this is what I’m going to do now. First of all I have to convince my dad to come with me to the vet school cause I believe that they will be more polite with him…I guess they see me being small and young and dont take me seriously. This is only possible when my dad stops working for the summer so it’s about 20th of June. And we’ll see how it goes and IF they are willing to answer every single question I have…

If it doesnt go well I will have to find a way to save up money for the vet in her own office cause at least she was willing to answer any question I had and everything was clear from the beggining.

My only concern is that when we’ll go to the vet school and my father finds out that it’s only 100 euros he’s going to push me all the time to go there cause he believes that whatever I read on the internet about cancer or about vets dont knowing anything about rabbits or having to use gas anesthetics is rubbish. And then he will get mad at me…well that’s him I’ll def have to deal with him again.

All of you I’d like to thank you for all the support, if it werent for you I would be clueless!!!

[Lintini]

Bougatsa I dealt with rude vets too when I got my first rabbit neutered. I asked all the questions on the HRS page, like what type of incision do they make, will he be in a quiet zone, will he need more pain meds etc….and let me tell you the office lady was VERY pissed at me. “CAN YOU CALL BACK ON MONDAY??!” I wanted to know the difference between getting them to spay/neuter versus going through the humane society and getting the low cost spay/neuter. Most vets around here in Cali want 300-400 and the humane society cost 70 for male and 100 for female – so I really wanted to know what I was missing out on by going through the humane society. That was when I called on a friday and that rude witch told me to call back MONDAY. I was RAGING!!! Like I am a second rate citizen for using the humane society. I’ve used them 2 times now, what I know I missed out on was a vet consultation, and blood work. I was scared of other vets when the receptionist didn’t even know if they spayed or neutered rabbits. That’s when the alarm goes off in your head that she probably has never seen a rabbit come in there and you are sure as heck aren’t bringing yours there!

 

I kinda had to put it into the prospective of when people call at work and when I don’t know the answer – I have to ask my boss or turn the phone over to her. Obviously those vet techs or just the receptionist aren’t going to have answers for most of my questions and the Vet is probably too busy to answer them right away to just “hand the phone over to them.” When they told me they never lost a rabbit to a spay/neuter and the Dr. has been practicing for over 20 years I was more at ease. Plus they had an office bunny!

[Bougatsa]

The thing is that every single time I’ve spoken with the vets themselves and not the receptionists. And that particular vet that e-mailed me and didnt want to tell me what kind of anesthetics they use just show me that he doesnt know that the kind os anesth makes a difference when spaying rabbits. Cause if he knew that the gas anesthetic is better he would say it just to inform me.
All I know is that vets here in greece only have knowledge on cats and dogs and are clueless on other species. Whenever I mentioned to any vet what I’ve read on the internet about rabbits they all say I should not believe that and want to make themselves look professionals even thought they dont have a clue.
 

[Lintini]

It’s very interesting you have brought this issue up to us all, I’ve never even thought about other countries vets and how difficult or easy it is for them to find a good exotics vet. I’m sorry that vet was a jerk to you – maybe is his defense he was very busy too? Maybe he thought you were just being a nosey person and wouldn’t actually take his services? I feel that even in my family here who has grown up in the bay area where we are known to be pretty accepting people off all sorts of things, they still don’t take rabbits as seriously as I do. I love talking about them and telling people what my bunnies got into the night before, or what type of box or toy I made for them and they just don’t even care as nearly as much as I do. It’s nice though at work, people try to save me “good boxes” for my buns to play in It pissed me off though, I went out to my birthday dinner last night with my friends and one of them told me he hates little animals and said “F my bunnies” and all sorts of rude things. What a jerk. I’ve decided he isn’t a good friend anymore. Who says that to the birthday girl…. Kinda off topic from your thread but I wanted to share that I get frustrated too.

[RabbitPam]

I don’t believe the vet doesn’t take bunnies seriously, Bougatsa, just is busy with a poor bedside manner. Most doctors are having to contend with patients of all types who are getting misinformation from the internet, and after paying a great deal to go to special schools to learn the necessary info. they just want to be trusted to do their jobs and not be second guessed by non-professional people. They don’t handle those situations well at all. Especially vets, who sometimes are better with animals than humans, thus becoming vets. If this vet practices with the local school, there’s a strong chance she is up on good techniques and is fine, skill and knowledge-wise.

I think your Dad, and Karla, are right. Take the school route. It costs less, and also it would be unethical for someone to teach a bad or outdated procedure with poor equipment (the anesthesia). So you would be getting someone who has a dozen people witnessing them work, and if something went wrong, they can’t lie or fudge about it. Not a bad scenario. Plus, when do these students graduate? Maybe you’ll get a new, young vet from there that you like later on. Sounds like a nice opportunity to get it done, and help your country’s future vets to learn more.

By the way, all anesthesia is risky, since the risk is more how it interacts with the individual, rather than the substance itself. I was allergic once, and until it happens, there’s no way to know. If they use an older method, it can be considered by many as tried and true. Many have had success with it, as opposed to a newer, supposedly better, kind. So you’d be working with substances with known effects and proven procedures if anything went wrong. Don’t expect that to happen. I think you’d be in good hands with the vet school.

[Bougatsa]

So you think that even if the use injectables and even if they have lost bunnies during the procedure should I still trust them?

[Lintini]

I wouldn’t go to a vet that has lost rabbits during a spay or neuter.
What vet was it that has lost rabbits to spay/neuter? The college or the clinic?

[Karla]

I would actually. Maybe I’m strange, but I would feel confident that they actually now have a knowledge that means it won’t happen again…depending on what happened though. If it was due to anestethic sensitivity there is no way they can prevent this from happening again.

[Lintini]

True, if they lost the rabbits in the past hopefully they would know what they did wrong and it wouldn’t’ happen again. I don’t know if they would tell you why they lost a rabbit before though =/

[Bougatsa]

I dont know if they HAVE lost bunnies and I really hope they havent. But the fact that the very first thing they told me is tha the anesthesia is very risky and I should take full responsbility just worries me a bit. As I said the vet ended the discussion when I started asking these questions and now I have to go over there…
Lintini I’m sure that if the have lost bunnies there is no way that they will tell me the reason..But I’m mostly interested in knowing if they have lost any bunny BECAUSE OF the anesthesia procedure. Karla if the reason would be the anesthetics and if the anesthetics were injectable then I’m definetely going to have second thoughts about that.

I guess there is no point in talking over over that again until I go there with my father and get all the necesarry information.

[Lintini]

Well, best of luck whatever you decide. Maybe it would be best to march around and show them you are serious and want answers to how your pets will be treated.

The only reason why I can think he/she was rude to you is because they thought you were messing with them. These days people always pull pranks and send out fake emails so maybe they were just having a bad day or thought you were a vet in competition with them trying to upset them? I’m just guessing but I wouldn’t think a vet would get so mad at simple questions like that which makes me think people have been sending fake emails to him.

[Beka27]

I think what you have to remember is if a rabbit was lost during surgery, that does not mean the vet necessarily was to blame. If the rabbit had some kind of underlying heart defect or compromised health condition, that could play a role as well. Human surgeons lose people during surgeries, but that does not mean they are bad surgeons. Sometimes it just happens. And I feel that if a vet lost an animal, they would be doing everything possible to make sure it did not happen again. I hate to call it a “learning experience” b/c that sounds callous and insensitive… but it kind of is.

[Bougatsa]

I just talked to a man who is also concidering spaying his female and discussed it with the vet, the woman I went to from the beggining (the one that scared me) and he said that she told him that 1 of 3 do not survive from the spay. What is going on with her? She didnt mention that to me, she only said that it is risky but she hasnt lost any bunnies so far!

[Beka27]

I really wish I knew what to tell you. Unfortunately you only have certain people available to choose from, and they are either incredibly inexperienced, inconsiderate, or highly misinformed. And we don’t know which.

[Author]

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