When to throw in the towel? (Extreme aggression)

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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

This topic has 10sd replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 2 days, 1 hour ago by DanaNM.

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- 01/25/2025 at 7:41 AM
  Rae
  Participant
  54 posts
  Hi all,
  
  Gus: 4 y.o male, neutered at around 1 year old. Holland lop. Free roam of the house minus the bedroom.
  
  Max: 2 y.o male, neutered around 3ish months ago. Rex mix. Kept in VERY large pen (enough room to run and binky).
  
  Background: Gus has had 3 failed bonding attempts with females, though they were never super aggressive towards each other. Just chasing and some fur pulling but never actual fighting/drawing blood. Max comes from an unknown background. I was told he was never kept with other rabbits but was friendly towards their dog/cat.
  
  I would like to start by saying I haven’t given their bonding the best shot – I didn’t realize neutral territory was so important. So far their interactions have occurred in the kitchen, where Max’s pen is, and where Gus’ homebase is (litterbox and bowls).
  
  The first time Gustavo initiated the fight, the second Maxwell did. Both were serious fights, they ended up on their sides on the floor kicking each other within seconds. It was awful and I had to pull Gus out in the air to stop them. It is basically on sight with each other, I mean the instant they see each other they run to fight.
  
  I realize now that neutral territory is important, and have read about the general basics of bonding. I see where I went completely wrong (to the point where I’m thinking the past failed bonding attempts could have possibly worked if we tried things differently). The shelter I was working with back then did not stress the importance of neutral territory, just that they should be kept separate and then introduce in small increasing increments.
  
  My question is: is it worth trying to bond them at this point, due to how aggressive they are towards each other? I mean, in my eyes I see it as cruel to try even in neutral territory because of how bad their fights are. I also think it is unfair to Maxwell that he can’t really roam, although his pen is big enough he is clearly unhappy. He never binkies or runs, just flops. I’m starting to feel awful about the situation, and need advice on how to go forward.
  
  I’m partial to rehoming, as I believe Gus wants to be a solo rabbit and to be honest our place is not big enough to just separate it in two so Max can roam on one side and Gus the other. However, I feel guilty for failing the past attempts as well as my partner loves Max and wants to keep him if it’s possible to bond them.
  
  We do have a home lined up with a close friend who knows bunny basics and will take good care of Max, if it does come down to it.
  
  Any advice is welcome and appreciated!
- 01/25/2025 at 8:44 AM
  Wick & Fable
  Moderator
  5820 posts
  If you’re willing to wait it out, it would be worth trying again, especially with more knowledge on bonding.
  
  For starters though, I’d wipe the slate clean, give them time apart, and spend much more time in prebonding before moving forward with dates and such. Also, as you mention, neutrality is very important, so maintaining the eventual space for the sessions is key.
  
  Have you tried prebonding initially before dates?
  
  The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 01/25/2025 at 8:47 AM
  Wick & Fable
  Moderator
  5820 posts
  The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
  - 01/26/2025 at 3:34 AM
    Rae
    Participant
    54 posts
    Yes, I tried switching their litterboxes but that’s about it.
  - 01/30/2025 at 4:00 AM
    Wick & Fable
    Moderator
    5820 posts
    It sounds like you can maximize pre-bonding a lot more with pen swapping, being visually in the same space (but not physically), and swapping objects and such. This provides more exposure to the other bun in a safe manner so they became accustomed to being in each other’s scent and presence.
    
    The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 01/25/2025 at 8:48 AM
  mia
  Participant
  577 posts
  Buns can still have a great relationship after horrible fights in bonding. I’ve had an incident that lead to surgery but the boys quickly became BFFs. They actually became BFFs before I even found out about the issue. Unless the buns are doing meet/greet/speed dating, I am usually very involved when I bond being in the same pen as the buns until I trust there are no fights for at least an hour.
  
  I think the question is more, do you have the time and energy to keep going? It’s perfectly ok to give up, especially since you have a home lined up and bun will be in good hands.
  - 01/26/2025 at 3:34 AM
    Rae
    Participant
    54 posts
    Thank you for the reassurance about if I need to rehome him, I would feel very guilty.
    
    We decided to go forward with attempting to bond (the right way this time!).
- 01/25/2025 at 10:09 AM
  BrunosMama
  Participant
  1537 posts
  It can be challenging to find neutral space with a free roam bun, so sometimes you have to think outside the box. I’ve had good luck in the past with using the bathtub (although a shower stall would work, too, if you can block off the front). Its just awkward and stressful enough that it encourages the buns to seek comfort from one another. And it won’t smell of either of them.
  
  Another place would be the car, although this would involve having them both in the same carrier, which isn’t a good idea in their current state. But, you don’t necessarily need to drive anywhere, just let the car idle, and it will induce enough stress that the buns will seek comfort in each other.
  
  Like Wick said, pre-bonding stuff will be important. I usually try to swap food dishes, litter boxes, and toys periodically to get them used to each others scent. Also, if they have a stuffed animal, I try to rub it on one bunny and give it to the other, so they can not only smell, but often it encourages grooming.
  
  And Mia is right, too, that a fight does not necessarily mean they can never be friends. But, you may need to be a little more hands on with them until they get more accustomed to one another.
  
  As for Max being cooped up – is it possible to put Gus in a pen temporarily or in a closed room and let Max run around for playtime?
  
  I know bonding can be stressful and some are more work than others, but the reward of happy bunny buddies is definitely worth it! 😀
  - 01/26/2025 at 3:34 AM
    Rae
    Participant
    54 posts
    I think we will get a second pen for this reason exactly! We had baby gates but Gus chewed through them and without a second pen it’s impossible to separate them at the moment.
  - 01/27/2025 at 11:22 PM
    mia
    Participant
    577 posts
    I have got 3 pens, well, 3 of everything :). One for each bun and then a third one that’s for the bonding sessions. Less moving things around, especially if it’s going to be a long process.
- 02/24/2025 at 5:40 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9060 posts
  It has been some time, any updates on this? Did you decide to keep trying or rehome?
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
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