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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Problems with incompetence and ignorance vets

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    • Viet Anh
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        Has anyone experienced problems with the vet(s)? I have placed my absolute trust in them, just because they have successfully performed a dental procedure and because they are the most expensive hospital in my country. Yet it costs us my dearest girl life because of their ignorance and incompetence. Is it my fault that I trusted them so much? Do you have any advice for overcoming frustration and resentment?
         
        TLDR version:
        We don’t have rabbit savvy vet here (Vietnam), so I guess the rabbits in my country depend on luck. And bad luck happens to us, unfortunately. My bun had difficulty breathing since the beginning of April. I took her to the most modern and expensive veterinary hospital in my country but both previous veterinarians completely ignored my concerns about respiratory problems even though I repeated it over and over again. Eventually it caused the infection to spread to the lungs to the point where it was incurable. At the same time, they did not let us transfer to another hospital. They also prescribed Baytril for dental abscesses. We chased her for 1 hour every day, for at least 3 months, she even broke her toenails because she was so panicked, to force her to take Baytril. It wasn’t until recently that I learned it has almost no effect on dental abscesses (and pneumonia), and what’s worse, it tastes very bitter. I feel so sorry for my girl!
        Even though they were incompetent, they still see rabbits and even discourage me to transfer to another hospital (They manipulated like “other doctors are not qualified” “I saw other doctors do this and they broke the rabbits’ tooth”)
         
        Detailed version (If this section is inappropriate, I will remove it):
        People believe in “you get what you pay for”, but in my case, even though we paid an incredibly high price, our rabbit passed away because of the vets’ ignorance and incompetence.
        On April 1, Dr. S was the one who ignored my concerns about my baby breathing problems even though I said over and over “her breathing is very irregular, breathing rapidly and loudly, I was lying on the bunk bed but I could still hear her breathing on the ground.” I was very worried but she insisted “she’s just stressed”. When I asked about her dental (my girl had a dental procedure here back in December, where Dr. N found out an abscess), she just rubbed her chin and said her teeth were fine. Well, that same month, Dr. N shockingly discovered that she had lost many teeth and had many dental abscesses! They CANNOT progress that fast in 2-3 months, let alone 3 weeks. This time, I also reminded him repeatedly about her irregular breathing, that she had to push her head out to breathe, and that I saw the movement of her chest while breathing. But he did not care about the respiratory problem at all and said it was dental. After reading many medical sources, I know that those symptoms are typical of respiratory infections. Sadly, I found out too late.
        Because I didn’t have enough money to do the dental procedure (about $600), I waited about 1-2 weeks after that to book an appointment. However, when I made the appointment, Dr. N was on leave. And even though I asked them to please let us have another vet to do it because I found the breathing problem worrying, they kept refusing. They also discourage me to go to another hospital. Because I paid a very high price, I trusted them so much that I did not transfer to another hospital and waited for Dr. N to return after 3 weeks. Also, he prescribes Baytril to be taken in the meantime, and it has nothing to do with abscesses or respiratory infection, with an extremely bitter taste! Eventually, even though we force feed her the antibiotics every night, the infection spread from the teeth and upper respiratory tract to the lungs to the point where it was incurable, she was diagnosed with severe pneumonia in June. And similarly, it cannot progess that quickly (from teeth to lungs) in just a few weeks. She has had difficulty breathing since late March, with 2 vet trips there but still left undiagnosed because the vets completely ignored my concerns.
        When the vet showed us the Xray results he coldly said “she has pneumonia she could die” No apology or sympathy even though he has been in charge of us for a long time. And completely ignored the fact that he didn’t care about my concerns. He even recommended incisors trimming at that time (Our current vet said that this was completely unnecessary)
        When we went to another vet, he immediately pointed out that it was initially a tooth abscess had spread to the upper respiratory tract and down into the lungs. Vets aboard also concluded similarly. They told me to consider her quality of life, because her condition and Xray were horrible. Even with aggressive treatment, the results are ambiguous. it was heartbreaking to see what they replied. The truth is that I made her struggle to breathe and made it impossible for her to sleep peacefully for more than 5 months because of the previous vets’ negligence. It was a slow and painful death, and it happened when she was still so young. With a small body of less than 2kg, she fought, and fought very strongly and resiliently for us. Their ignorance and incompetence cost us her life, as well as her quality of life in her last months.
        I must say that I am someone who keeps a close eye on my pets. I even brought a calendar to tell them what happened on what day. Well, they didn’t care at all. People make mistakes, but this is definitely not a mistake but the vet’s negligence.
        Honestly, I despise these two vets, I’m still so upset that I can’t stand it. However, animals are looked down upon in my country so I cannot sue them.


      • DanaNM
        Moderator
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          I am so sorry for what you have been through and for the loss of your bunny. 🙁 That all must have been incredibly stressful for both you and your bunny.

          I must be so difficult not having a trustworthy vet. I’m not sure if it will be of any comfort, but oddly enough dental abscesses CAN pop up seemingly overnight, and they are notoriously difficult to cure, even with the best vet care. I had one bun who went to a check up because he showed dental issues. The vet (vet experienced in dentals) said yes, I see something going on with his molars so lets schedule him for a dental procedure. His appointment was less than a week later, and in that short time an abscess had formed on his jaw and he had multiple rotten molars. He ended up having several more extractions and then a few months later passed away unexpectedly, also struggling to breath even though he had no respiratory symptoms before this. I had one of the best rabbit vets that I trust 100% and they could not figure out why this happened.

          I share this not to say that your vets were not negligent, but to say that even if they had been perfect, your bun sounds like she was very very sick and it may not have made any difference. It is awful that she had to suffer. But she was very lucky to have someone who cared about her as much as you did and gave her a wonderful life, although it was cut short. I absolutely encourage you to try another vet for your other bunnies, even if they aren’t as state of the art or as experienced. Having a vet that listens to you and respects you is more important. If they ever prescribe anything you aren’t sure about, you can post about it here and we can try to check it’s safety for you.

          There is an quote I like that goes “Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die.” It is very valid to be angry, but it may do a disservice to your bun to have that anger tied to her memory. You may find it healing to focus on the happy memories you had with her, so the happy memories you shared aren’t replaced with anger and sadness. You can make a post memorializing her in the Rainbow Bridge section if you would like to.

          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


        • Viet Anh
          Participant
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            Surely the happy memories we shared aren’t replaced with anger and sadness. I always look at photos and remember memories with smiles 🙂

            But the last 5 months were truly traumatic for us. The negligence of the vets caused her to suffer miserably, but I was too “innocent” that I did not know.

            I feel it’s unfair because we could have had many more years together, if I hadn’t taken her to this hospital, if I had transferred her to another hospital sooner. And because she could have been treated sooner if I had tried to find out sooner and switched to another vet sooner. Just thinking about the 5 months she struggled to breathe without being able to sleep makes my heart ache. It hurts badly you know 🙁


          • Em
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              First off, my deepest condolences – I know how it feels, and I honestly have no answers for you, so thought I would share my boys story as it is somewhat similar to yours though not as extreme to show you are not alone, but you have to try and not blame yourself – you trusted a medical professional, so it is not your fault though I understand it is hard to not blame yourself.  I did not deal with an incompetent vet, as I actually really do like my vet, but rather a severe delay in the issuing of my boys CT results by a different vet which ultimately robbed him of a peaceful death.

              my boy was a 6 year old Frenchie. He was diagnosed with a URI last May (‘22). It was treated successfully (so we thought) but returned with a vengeance earlier this year… about may/april, and back to the vet we went. I spoke my concerns that he had very loud breathing, and that I was concerned it had spread to his lungs. I was assured his lungs sounded great, and so we proceeded to try a multitude of antibiotics and nebulising agents all of which offered little to no relief. After multiple failed attempts, a CT was organised for him in July with the plan to perform a surgery on his nose to relieve his breathing. I was told we would have results within days and then surgery would be organised ASAP depending on results. It took 2 entire weeks. 2 weeks were he had no treatment other than what little relief I could offer him with a nebuliser. Only for him to die, horrifically, on the way to the emergency vets. He screamed for two entire minutes and I will never erase the sound or look of utter terror on his face for as long as I live.

              I got the CT results the day after he died. He had severe pneumonia, they described his lungs and nose as having a “moth eaten” appearance. It was hopeless, but had they got the results back to us in a timely manner like they promised, I could at the very least have put him to sleep and let him pass with the peace & dignity he deserved. Every day, I kick myself for not pushing them to issue results sooner. Instead I trusted they were doing what they could, when I was told they were sorry for the delay, I nodded and said I understood. I always wonder “what if”. I only found out later that I could have possibly paid an extra fee to have results issued within 48 hours, but this was never said to me so I never knew to ask – I would have gladly paid anything, but how was I to know to ask for a service I was not informed existed in the first place?

              I sympathise with you completely. For me, my memories of my boy are ruined. I had him since he was 11 weeks old. I can’t ever look back at him without reliving his last moments. I know everyone says that it does no good to think of the what ifs, but unless you have lived through something so traumatic, you will never get it. I still have a very hard time trusting the clinic that dealt with the CT scan.

              I lost my other boy, a 5 year old miniature lion lop, exactly 1 year and 1 day before I lost my frenchie. He had a tooth tooth abscess. They kept cancelling and rescheduling his CT. Originally they misdiagnosed him as having cut his gum, but I pushed for x-rays and that’s when they found it. Because they took so long with the CT and treatment, after 2 weeks on baytril and metacam he rapidly deteriorated. I rushed him to the emergency vet on the Sunday, fully prepared to put him to sleep. But my vet thought he still had a chance, and put him on a drip where he seemed to perk up. Hearing that the vet thought he had a chance made me feel guilty for wanting to put him down, so I fought for him instead. Within an hour of bringing him home, with the vet assuring me he still had a fight in him yet, my poor boy started panicking and passed away in my arms. To this day, I wish I trusted my gut instinct and put him down when I had the chance. Instead his last moments he panicked, when he could have gone peacefully to sleep.

              so trust me, I know what you are going through. For me, no words could offer comfort. I feel both my boys were robbed and I feel a form of responsibility for not pushing vets more than I did. So I can only say I understand and I hope you find some peace.


            • Viet Anh
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                Oh my god Em, I cried, and cried really hard when I read your thread. And I’m truly very sorry for what you’ve been through. Trust me, I feel you.

                You even expressed a feeling that I never thought of, yes, this is it, I feel my precious girl was robbed.

                It is extremely painful to think about “if only I had”. I feel it’s unfair because we could have had many more years together if I hadn’t taken her to the previous hospital. I feel regretful because she could have been treated and not have to suffer for so long if I switched to our current vet sooner.  Just thinking about the 5 months she struggled to breathe without being able to sleep, and how we chased her around the house for an hour every day to force her to take Baytril because I didn’t dare change vets makes my heart hurt so much. She panicked, ran, hid, and crouched because she was too afraid of taking Baytril. Yet I was still angry, sometimes I scolded her and I even banged the table and the bed. I was so exaggerating and so cruel 🙁

                “I know everyone says that it does no good to think of the what ifs, but unless you have lived through something so traumatic, you will never get it.”

                This couldn’t be more true. It hurts me badly every time I think about how I caused her to suffer miserably and have her life cut short when she could have had a better prognosis. It’s horrible to think that I forced her to take it for 2 months and her condition still got worse. When experiencing a loss like this, you not only feel sad but also regretful and unfair because it could have been better. It’s truly traumatic and I also think that only anyone who has experienced it can understand and sympathize.

                My sincerest thanks, Em! Thank you for sharing your story, and for sympathizing with me. Your kind words mean a lot.


              • Em
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                  I totally understand. I too look back and I think I should have done this, or I shouldn’t have done that. My French lop, Wolf, hated medication. Even at his weakest point when he weighed a tiny 3.8kg (he was usually 5kg), he was still a large and strong rabbit and impossible to restrain. I used to get so frustrated with him when he wouldn’t take his medication. I had more than one total breakdown trying to get him to take it. But, you have to forgive yourself – as I am trying to too – as you were only frustrated because you were so desperate for her to feel better. He also struggled horribly with his breathing, with it often disrupting his sleep. And I feel terrible that he suffered needlessly for months, because for him his condition was too far gone, but vets kept planting seeds of hope so I felt I would be killing him if I put him to sleep.

                  My other boy, Gatsby, who passed July ‘22 he completely stopped eating during his last week as the pain relief was doing nothing for him at that point. He had to be force fed every other hour. During the night shift on his last night (unbeknownst to us), we were so exhausted that we had an argument over who was going to do the night shift with him… as if he was a burden, when he was anything but. Now I would do anything to have to wake up every hour in the night, even if it meant one more minute with him.

                  Words honestly cannot express the guilt I feel over both my boys looking back. They should both be here with their sister, but instead they are in boxes on a shelf. There are an infinite amount of should’ve, would’ve, what ifs I feel. But we are only human. We make mistakes. We trust people who are in these positions, because after all why shouldn’t we?

                  I’m sure your girl would not want you to feel guilty, and she knows you were only doing the best you knew how to do on the advice of medical professionals. For me i think the feeling of regret is probably worse than the feeling of sadness. Because at least if they died peacefully knowing that we did everything we could, well then I would only be sad. But instead I am sad, angry, and have an infinite amount of regret and questions I will never know the answers to.

                  Just know you are not alone, and many of us are in the same boat. Be kind to yourself. And while I am probably a hypocrite to say this, as I struggle doing it myself, but please try to not be too hard on yourself and know you really did do everything you could.

                   


                  • Viet Anh
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                      Thank you so much, Em! You said what I wanted to say, fully, exactly, completely. What can I say, you read me like a book!

                      It is so true in every sentence and every word. Usually I will tell people that I experienced this, I feel that. But no matter how much I say it, I’m sure that they won’t be able to understand or sympathize. But wow! After reading your response, I can only say that I couldn’t agree more with what you said, both about what happened and about the thoughts that keep running through my mind. And honestly, I feel better after reading your responses.

                      Our current, wonderful vet told me: “Sometimes, bad things happen to a good bunny”. I think it’s our case. It just happens. And even though I’m still struggling with it, I hope you don’t be too hard on yourself, too. Take care!


                    • Viet Anh
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                        Thank you so much, Em! You said what I wanted to say, fully, exactly, completely. What can I say, you read me like a book!

                        It is so true in every sentence and every word. Usually I will tell people that I experienced this, I feel that. But no matter how much I say it, I’m sure that they won’t be able to understand or sympathize. But wow! After reading your response, I can only say that I couldn’t agree more with what you said, both about what happened and about the thoughts that keep running through my mind. And honestly, I feel better after reading your responses.

                        Our current, wonderful vet told me: “Sometimes, bad things happen to a good bunny”. I think it’s our case. It just happens. And even though I’m still struggling with it, I hope you’re not too hard on yourself either. Take care!


                    • LBJ10
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                        Sometimes these things just happen and there really isn’t anything we could have done differently… even though we often think that we could have. It’s human nature, after all. But some bunnies are just susceptible to certain types of infections and no matter how we try to treat it, they eventually lose the battle. Sometimes it is relatively quickly and sometimes it can drag out for years. My experience is different than yours. I had a bunny that had chronic problems due to overgrown tooth roots. This made him susceptible to URIs because the tooth roots irritated his sinuses. Every time he go a URI, it seemed like something happened as a result. He got pneumonia on time, for example. Another time, the infection spread up into his ear and it resulted in permanent facial paralysis. My vet was very supportive and she was always willing to try different things. We tried different antibiotics, etc. But sooner or later, another infection would pop up. I will always wonder if there was something else I could have done for him. In the end though, I know it probably wouldn’t have changed the outcome.

                        I am very sorry for your loss. I agree with Dana. Don’t let what happened tarnish all the wonderful memories you have of your bunny. She was clearly very loved and you did your best. That’s all anyone can really do.

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                    Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Problems with incompetence and ignorance vets