Woo hoo!

I would do a bit more wee bit pre-bonding to see if that lunging behavior calms down a bit! Flopping against the pen is kind of a mixed signal, because it can be seen as relaxed behavior, as well as a “look how much I don’t care about you” type of behavior.

I would put the litter boxes at the edges closest together, since they spend so much time in them! Could you possibly have a bit more of the pens share walls? Ideally they could be fed near each other AND have the litter boxes near each other, but I would say if you had to pick one, go with the litter boxes.

That sounds like great progress!

I would try not to worry about it! Either they will be super bonded and you’ll be comfortable leaving them, or they won’t be and you can separate them. They won’t be starting from scratch! I’ve had to do things like this before and never really noticed a big back slide in progress after little breaks here and there.

One tip (for if they are bonded by then and you end up taking them somewhere together), is to have them stay together in the carrier for at like 30 min when you arrive at the new spot. This helps them slowly get used to the new smells and can help prevent any issues with the bond. My past bun sitter (who was a lead at the rescue and has tons of buns at her house) always does this with her boarders and has never had an issue.

That honestly sounds kind of average to me! I would just keep repeating that type of date a few more times. They didn’t fight instantly, and she only really reacted when he came near her (as opposed to her seeking him out and attacking him).

Keep the dates short for now, even 5 minutes is fine. The more they interact and don’t fight, the more Freya will learn that Tyb isn’t going to attack her or try any funny business and they will start relaxing. Or maybe he WILL try some funny business and she will put him in his place. Or maybe she will decide he’s tough enough to protect her and she will let him be top bun! Only time will tell!

Sometimes with reactive buns especially it helps to have a larger space. I would keep things as is for now, but if after a few more sessions you feel things are getting worse, you can experiment with the space (larger or smaller, I usually have better luck with larger though) and see if that helps.

That sounds like an improvement! I would repeat that date a few more times before increasing the length of time.

Yes it’s definitely OK to be in the pen with them at this point. When you get to longer sessions where they need less intervention it’s good to step out of the pen, but for now it’s best to be right in there with them so you can intervene really quickly when needed.

If you have time, you can do 2 short sessions per day, as long as they aren’t seeming overly stressed by it. I often do two a day when the sessions are really short.

That looks very positive to me! And sounds like a great plan!

Side note, I think Freya’s ears alone are as big as Tyb! 😀

haha! All good questions!

Semi-neutral (in my mind at least) is somewhere within smell or sight of their home turf, but not within the old home territory. I have on occasion had to skip the “semi-neutral” zone and just did my best to neutralize their final home as much as possible. One time I did the semi-neutral thing I used my kitchen, and then when they were done with their 2 days there I just opened the gate and let them run to their final home. I had zero issues.

I would remove any hides for now, but you can reintroduce them later. Cardboard boxes are nice temporary hides when you need something neutral.

I usually start out with an x-pen sized set-up (or maybe two x-pens since Freya is so big!) with all new stuff, as you mentioned. If the space is maybe less neutral than you’d like, you can hang some blankets on the walls to block their view of the room, and then gradually remove them as they settle in.

As for the pen, I like to set things up in a mirror image of how they were in their homes before (if possible). Don’t worry about your room! But I do like to clean the floors really well. If you have carpet you can sprinkle baking soda around and then vacuum it up. Idk if it’s 100% necessary but I used to do it as a precaution when I had carpets.

Yes you can give them toys, just make sure they are new! You can reintroduce old stuff gradually once they are cemented, so you don’t have to throw it all away. For any hides make sure they have at least 2 exits so they don’t get cornered.

Don’t worry about feeding, most buns have a tendency to eat faster when they realize they have to! I’m sure Freya will get what she needs. 🙂 I usually feed salads in 1 bowl that they share, and I scatter feed pellets.

I have only had a problem with this final step once, and it resolved itself after a day or so of monitoring, so I’m sure they will do great!

As for how much space to give, I usually keep them confined to their enclosure for a day or 2, and then will let them out to exercise as usual. If you notice some tension you can restrict the space a bit (so they get to exercise in a larger pen but not in the whole room). I know some people have issues with giving too much space right away, but I think this is more common when people do small space bonding. I usually bond in larger spaces and haven’t really had any problems with giving them free-roam time after a couple days.

Aw that’s a bummer! I wonder what techniques the bonder is trying? It would be good to get some info on what her strategy is.

I’ve just quickly skimmed back through your thread, my memory is that you were making some progress with them during shorter dates at home? If that’s the case then I would go back to that strategy! Sometimes bunnies just aren’t ready for marathoning, which is what bonders will typically do. I find with my own bonding that very large spaces and a change of scenery can work wonders. I see you were doing dates at home in the summer, and then just recently sent them to the bonders. Were you dating them that whole time or did you take a break?

In general for really tough bonds, patience is the most important thing. Sometimes doing a longer pre-bonding period helps. I’ve also noticed my longest, toughest bonds ended up SUPER closely bonded when they finally decided they loved each other. My longest bond took about 4 months of actual sessions daily (that was Bun Jovi and Bertha).

So if you aren’t ready to give up, then you definitely don’t have to, as long as you are keeping an eye on the buns’ stress levels and they are handling it all OK. I’d be interested to hear a bit more about the behaviors that lead to fighting. For example, when I decided to stop trying to bond my quad it was because Bun Jovi and Cooper were fighting badly. Bun Jovi was relentless about trying to mount Cooper and just would not give up. Cooper finally started attacking him in response but Bun still wouldn’t back down. In that case, I was worried for Bun Jovi’s health (poor old man was going to give himself a heart attack) and Cooper was biting him back hard, so I decided it wasn’t worth it and probably was not a good match.

That’s a very interesting method! I’m a bit surprised she would separate them when they scuffled. That is basically teaching them that fighting will make the other rabbit go away, so it could have been reinforcing the scuffling. Everyone has their own ways of bonding so to each their own, but that’s not the way I would do it!

I think you should give the large space a shot. With how large Freya is, I would try for at least 2 or even 3 x-pens linked up! The idea is it gives them a bit more space to chase it out and lets them move more freely without constantly feeling threatened by the other (thinking about Freya lunging at him constantly). I think asking a friend is a great idea… depending on the climate you are in a garage or basement could work, or a kitchen if they don’t mind you taking over for a bit. I also think your bathroom floor is good to try as well. You could do a combo of sessions in your bathroom floor, and then sessions at a friend’s house when you can. The car rides together to the friend’s house could also be helpful! I did a lot of bonding at my friends’ house when I lived in a small apartment and my friends got a lot of entertainment out of it. 🙂

If scuffling only lasted a few seconds and then they stopped on their own, that’s a very good sign. And yes sometimes when one bun finally decides to fight back it’s actually a turning point for the better. Sometimes things get worse before they improve. It sounds like Tybalt has been trying to tentatively mount and Freya has been retaliating. That might be a good thing, as it shows Freya that he’s strong enough to be top bun! Freya honestly sounds a lot like how my big bunny Bertha was in bonding. Can’t judge a woman who knows what she wants! LOL It can be frustrating but it really doesn’t sound like they hate each other, they are just being stubborn!

So, Bertha was bonded with 3 dif buns in her life (poor gal was widowed a few times). First was Bunston (the little brown buy in my avatar). They were my first pair I bonded and it was ROUGH. I almost gave up several times. Bunston was a very feisty little guy (had some dwarf in him for sure) but was also very afraid of her. She ended up being top but basically through her refusing to do anything until he groomed her. Then they “suddenly” clicked and were madly in love. I say suddenly in quotes because it was after 3 months of daily sessions where they would fight instantly at first.

Her bond with Moose was a bit easier but they were never as close. Moose had lived with other buns before so I think he was just more able to communicate, but sadly he passed away suddenly after they had only been together about 6 months.

Bun Jovi and Bertha were also a very tough bond, but it was a very different dynamic than with Bunston. They didn’t fight right away, and would be seemingly fine for hours and then would start scuffling when Bun tried to mount. I actually wrote a blog post about their bonding experience for the rescue in my town: https://bunssb.org/bunnies/bonding-two-stubborn-senior-buns

In that bond Bertha was more submissive, I was so surprised! She almost never groomed Bunston but Bun Jovi finally convinced her to groom him. They were also VERY closely bonded.

I do agree it’s usually best to not worry too much about who will be dominant. In all of my pairs, both buns would show some dominant behaviors once bonded, so I sometimes think they both think they are top bun. :p

There are multiple ways you could go about bonding in the other locations. I’m a fan of starting with the easiest thing first, which would be to start with some daily dates in your bathroom, even if they are shorter. 1.5 x-pens isn’t too tiny, so I think it’s worth a shot (I usually like to block the area under the toilet for bathroom dating because sometimes they will get cornered back there).  Not sure how far away your friend’s house is, but I think it would make more sense to drive there for the dates and then drive home (having them ride in the same carrier in the car ride together will also help things). If that’s feasible, you could plan to do bathroom dates at your house during the week, then over the weekend take them to your friend’s house for some longer sessions during the day.

If all of that seems to be going OK (as in, they aren’t just fighting viciously immediately or getting worse and worse over time), then I would start to plan for some really long sessions that include an overnight, potentially even a marathon at your friend’s house or grandma’s house. In the past I’ve timed marathoning so I start on Friday after work and then camp out with the buns over the weekend. Usually within the first 24 hours I know if it’s going to work out. If things are going well after 24 hours I keep going and then they are usually bonded by Monday (but still need cementing and transitioning to home). 🙂