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FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Owen has stasis and isn’t doing well

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    • Ellie from The Netherlands
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        (Sorry about that part with the title, somehow it posted too quickly.)

         

        Owen hadn’t eaten all of his pellets last week, but we thought that it was just the heat: he ate enough treats and vegetables.

        Last weekend he suddenly stopped eating, and we went to the vet with him early Sunday morning. He got Cisapral for gut motility, Metacam for pain, and CC. He seemed to perk up a little, and yesterday he was munching a lot of vegetables and hay.

        I had a treatment for my rheumatic illness this morning and I wasn’t back until 14:30. Just when I was ready to go to bed I thought to myself: I haven’t seen Owen drink today! And after some asking, neither had Bas. There was no pee in his box, and Owen’s appetite had also come to a halt.

        Our own vet couldn’t see him until Thursday, because they were understaffed due to illness, so we had to go to the same vet that saw him in the weekend. His gut was completely still 😥 We have to give him Cisapral 4 times a day now, including Metacam and force-feeding with CC.

        After the first treatment he ate a little and peed in his box. I’m going to bed for a couple of hours now so I can do the night shift. This is the longest I’ve ever seen a bun struggle with eating.

        We really hope that it has nothing to do with the presence of Molly or with the bonding itself. We tried to see what happened if we put Molly in the bedroom, and it only made him agitated. He calmed down when we brought her back. Soon they were loafing together.

        He just ate a bit of corn lettuce and a bit from his timothy hay&herbs bar. He drank a little too. I’m really hoping that he pulls through 😥


      • Bam
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          Oh, Ellie 🙁🙁🙁

          I’m sorry I’m so late to this.

          Make sure he keeps warm. I don’t know how the summer weather is in NL, it’s like November temps here, but a poorly bun can get cold “from the inside” and need warming up. My Vilde placed himself right under a radiator but there’s probably no heat on them this time of year, a bottle with warm water will do nicely. The best thing would be if Molly could keep him warm, but they may not be able to lie that close.

          Obviously dont feed refrigerator-cold CC, mix it with lukewarn water, if you keep some already mixed CC in the fridge, pour in some hot water to warm it up before serving. Make it runny, hydration is super important.

          I’d ask for famotidine (pepcid) to protect the stomach from the metacam, and keep up feeding small-ish portions of CC 5-6 h per day. It’s OTC but it only comes as pills, so you need to dissolve it in water yourself and calculate a proper dose.

          I know you know all this, but in my experience, having a very poorly bun sort of makes one’s brain unable to function properly.

          I will keep a close eye on this thread, Please keep us updated!


        • Ellie from The Netherlands
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            Short update: we upped the Metacam a little and he became more active and ate better within 2 hours. Not sure whether we should be happy about that or very worried 😟 Let’s see how things develop and what happens when we reduce the dose after he’s eating well again.

            Molly is a pretty good guide for how her brother feels: when he was at his worst she was displaying a lot of dominant behaviours: chinning, running circles around his pen while humming and leaving poop around it in a circle too. Now she’s calmer and flops against him again. She did get groomed by him.

            Bas stayed here for the week and is trying to work remotely as well as he can. This leaves me some room to nap between the medication times. It’s a bummer that only I can medicate Owen: he’s very wriggly. I’m a bit of a cheater though: when I lean over him my chest presses him down, so I’ve got one hand to grab his head and one hand to hold the syringe.

            Owen doesn’t hate me completely yet: he’s out of his hutch more often, and sat still when I reached for him to pet him. He even lowered his head and purred a bit.


          • Meg
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              I’m so sorry, Ellie!  I hope Owen feels all better soon — the signs you’ve described sound very promising.

              We use a lap-hammock approach to force-feeding meds/CC, which I’ll share in case helpful (my male partner can do it, so maybe Bas can too?).  It’s done sitting on the edge of a bed or couch, with a stool, trash can, low table, or other thing to put your feet up on so that your thighs are angled up from the bed level.  Then you drape a towel over your lap — this is the bunny “hammock.”  If you have Owen sitting next to you on the bed/couch, you pick him up and hold him with his feet on your chest, and then slowly/gently lower your torso onto your lap so that he gets placed on his back in the hammock while feeling secure.  So he should be at about a 45-degree angle backwards in his recliner-hammock, head up of course, with his head and back settled into the hammock.  Our bunnies have *typically* let us drip some medicine onto their mouths and they’ll lap it up in this position for maybe 5, 10, or 20 seconds before they get wriggly.  Our approach has been to let them out of the hammock at that point (as soon as they struggle) and give them a minute to sit on the bed and calm down before picking them up again.  If Owen is simply too wriggly for this, you may have to do a towel burrito rather than just the hammock — but we ended up finding the hammock surprisingly worked as well for our buns, FWIW.

              I’m sure you know this, but for anyone else reading, we do very much want to prevent aspiration of meds/CC, so it’s good to go slowly, and if you need to put the syringe in the bunny’s mouth, you want to do it gently from the side of the mouth.

              Good luck and please keep us posted!


            • Ellie from The Netherlands
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                Owen is out in his pen again now that he has more Metacam. He stayed mostly in his hutch for the last days. He also seems more relaxed, attempting a few flops.

                A pic of Owen and Molly flopping together again:


              • Bam
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                  So great that he’s doing so much better! It is a good sign if he starts eating more with more pain meds, it’s so important that he starts eating so things get going again.

                   


                • Meg
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                    Hooray — that’s wonderful!  😀  Flopping is a terrific sign.  As they say, pain management is such an important part of overcoming stasis.  Way to go! 🙂


                  • Ellie from The Netherlands
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                      Oy, get that camera out of my face! Taking pictures of my turds for Pete’s sake, you humans are all barking mad! She’s crazy, crazy I tell you! Komple’t meshuggah! And I live with this woman!

                      Ladies and gentlemen: we have poop! 🥳

                      He’s finally eating pellets after being mostly on CC, vegetables and a couple of nibbles of hay for almost a week. He’s drinking on his own 🥳

                      Aren’t those the most beautiful poops?

                      I might even get in a whole night’s sleep in soon… It’s been almost a week of only naps between force feedings and medication 4-6 times a day 🥴


                    • DanaNM
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                        Yay for poops!!! Just catching up on this and I’m so glad he’s feeling better!

                         

                        . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                      • Ellie from The Netherlands
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                          He was eating some pellets, but quite slowly. I soaked some pellets in water, and these are going down quickly now. If he doesn’t perk up during the weekend, he’s going for a dental exam.


                        • Bam
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                            Poop 💃💃💃

                            Fingers so crossed for more poop and a hearty appetite! Pain relief is often the most vital part of stasis treatment according to my (rabbit savvy) vet.

                            He does seem a bit too young for dental problems, but it does occur. Wick’s Wick is an example of that. He needed several burrs to set his bite straight. Trauma to the teeth or getting sth stuck between teeth so it causes painful inflammation can of course happen at any age.

                             

                             


                          • Ellie from The Netherlands
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                              He just finished his SECOND bowl of soaked pellets within a couple of hours! He’s hungry alright… That seems to conform my suspicion that he has problems while chewing.

                              Thanks for all the support Dana, Meg, and Bam! You do tend to go crazy on a week of 3 hour naps and constant worrying 😵 I’m just so happy that he’s off CC now: now it’s just meds 4 times a day instead of 6-8 feedings.


                              @Bam
                              : yes, maybe he chewed on something that he shouldn’t have chewed on, and it irritates his mouth. He’s a real wrecking ball and pulls crazy stunts often.

                              I’m still thinking about that piece of tie-wrap that flew into his pen, which I couldn’t find back again. He’s also a chronic bar rattler, so maybe he chewed off a chip of paint or a small piece of metal.

                              He was very angry when the weekend vet tried to check his teeth, and she couldn’t see much because he was struggling so badly. For now we’ll offer both soaked and dry pellets to see him through the weekend. And then it’s time for a vet visit, possibly under anaesthetic.


                            • Meg
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                                I’m so glad he’s eating and pooping again and I hope his mouth feels better soon!!

                                FWIW, that is a lot of feedings!  I used to do 4-6 per day until coming to our current vet, who says 3 per day when not eating is OK, or 2 per day if eating a bit on their own.  Then stasis treatment got a lot more doable on our end.  Of course do what you think is best / what your vet says, but I just wanted to mention this in case at all helpful!


                              • prince dorian the bun
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                                  Hope poor Owen is doing better!


                                • Ellie from The Netherlands
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                                    @Meg: that’s a very different number indeed! I was told to make the CC runny, so he’d get enough fluids. And then feed him little bits every 3-4 hours.


                                  • Meg
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                                      For sure!  I’m sure yours is a good plan; please of course do what you think best.  🙂


                                    • Ellie from The Netherlands
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                                        Tbh I don’t know what’s best, I can barely tell sugar from shite after a week like this 🤣

                                        All I know is that I’m happy that he’s eating on his own ^_^


                                      • Meg
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                                          Hahaha that’s an awesome expression! ;D

                                          I’m so glad too!!  😀  He’s so lucky to have you taking such wonderful care of him. 🙂


                                        • Ellie from The Netherlands
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                                            Something went wrong there: I tried to say “thank you! 😘” and it suddenly became a post that had to be moderated first.


                                          • Bam
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                                              I dont know what went wrong, I can’t find a post from you that needs moderator approval.

                                              I fed my Vilde 5-6 times per day (no feedings during the night) when he was acutely ill, then when he was stable, I reduced to 3 feedings, then two.

                                              If Owen gnaws on hard things like enclosure bars, he could’ve chipped a teeth. Rabbit teeth of course grow out, but a chipped tooth can cause the bite to become imbalanced and need a corrective burr.

                                              It’s very common that vets cant get a good look of a rabbit’s molars without some sedation. If he keeps eating as well as he does now, sedation won’t be a problem.


                                            • jerseygirl
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                                                FWIW, I’ve always found pellets are the last thing my rabbits will want to eat again after a gut slow-down or bout of stasis. Im happy to read you were able to get Owen to eat the softened ones in the end.
                                                Feel better soon, buddy!

                                                Also, appreciating the poops there in his litter-box! I’d paste the celebratory poop pic here if I could find it. 😉


                                              • Ellie from The Netherlands
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                                                  Owen!!@!@@!1!!!!@!!! You lazy, picky, spoilt fluffbutt! Well, at least the vet visit was cheap… 🤬

                                                  Long story short: his teeth are fine, his tummy is fine, his fur is fine, he’s a picture of bunny health. He even managed to gain weight (+ 60 g) on his diet of CC, and is now on the plump side of a healthy weight. (And that’s the thanks I get for all those broken nights?! A slightly plump bunny?!)

                                                  The stasis was probably caused by Owen’s heavy moulting at the moment. He had some stringy poops. According to the vet there are 2 options for why he isn’t eating many pellets:

                                                  Option 1: he’s just not as hungry as his sister or simply prefers prefers hay or vegetables over pellets.

                                                  Option 2: he’s a lazy bastard and simply prefers his pellets soaked so they’re quicker to eat 🤬@!$%%$#!!!!!🤬 I  really wouldn’t put it past him, he’s a very lazy bunny…

                                                  The vet told us that pellets are non-essential for rabbits as long as they eat plenty of hay and mixed vegetables. He told us not to worry unless he’s losing weight or not eating and pooping again.

                                                  Rabbits are just like toddlers, they can be so exasperating! 🙄

                                                  At least I got to see our favourite vet, who is always happy to see our bunnies. He likes to interact with them and pet them. I did get compliments on Owen’s behaviour: the vet said that he’s very calm and well-behaved. He told me that I’m raising our bunnies well ^_^


                                                • Meg
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                                                    Ohhh this is the best possible news!!  I’m so happy Owen is healthy!!  I’m sorry he put you through so much, but I’m relieved.  And the vet is right, you are taking fantastic care of your bunnies!

                                                     


                                                  • Ellie from The Netherlands
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                                                      Yes, it was really crazy. I’ve never had a bun with stasis this long. When the vet said that his gut was completely still I was very very scared. I’m glad that he bounced back to health.

                                                      Thank you for saying that I raise them well, it really does me good. I got a very nasty reaction from shelters when my previous bunny Breintje had passed away and I wanted to adopt. Breintje couldn’t be bonded and I took him in because I have all the time in the world. I actually wanted to adopt a single rabbit, because I like the 1-on-1 contact and I can invest a lot of time in a bunny with problems. Rehabilitating a rabbit is something that I’ve always wanted to try.

                                                      So I called all nearby shelters and promptly heard that Breintje couldn’t have been truly happy… 😟 They were all very rude and dismissive and said exactly the same thing: “One rabbit is not a rabbit!”. (Did they all join a cult?) As if there’s only one way and that’s a bonded pair… Some nuance please: many bunnies thrive with constant human attention too, especially if they’ve got problems that make them difficult to bond.

                                                      Their nasty attitude drove us to a hobby breeder, and I’m still wondering if I made the right choice. I love Owen and Molly, but the bonding isn’t going well because Molly has some problems. (I did end up getting a problem bunny after all…)

                                                      Molly had massive self-esteem and anxiety issues, and when we first met her she was so tiny and really submissive. She instantly walked up to Bas to groom him, and we feel for her right away. Back home she groomed everyone and every piece of furniture just to make friends. She was so scared, got frequent panic attacks and was too scared to be petted. I basically talk to her all day and try to announce things, and she hasn’t had a panic attack in 3 months 🥳

                                                      Lately she started to accept being petted, and now she lets us pet her a couple of short moments a day. She enjoys it and purrs, and sometimes she attracts our attention if she wants to be petted.

                                                      She’s finally coming out of her shell now after 9 months. She’s doing that a bit too fiercely though and switched to full-on dominance mode towards Owen. I’ll work with her a bit more until her behaviour balances out, and then I’m hoping to find a professional bonder for them. Really hoping that it’s going to work 🙂 They do look to each other for comfort and enjoy laying against each other:

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                                                  FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Owen has stasis and isn’t doing well