Is my bun unbondable?

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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

This topic has 6sd replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 7 months ago by DanaNM.

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- 03/27/2022 at 2:26 AM
  Lisa-P&T
  Participant
  67 posts
  Hi guys.
  
  Been here before but wanted to check back in on a new situation.
  
  Can give further historic detail if required but don’t want to overwhelm with text. DanaNM if you’re reading, you know all about it!
  
  The issue is, I have a 2 year old female called Phil. I adopted a neutered male of unknown age (doesn’t look to be senior, most likely similar age or a tad younger) last week, called Ollie.
  
  Phil previously had a broken bond with another female who she bullied mercilessly to the point of my other female squeaking, hiding, and withdrawing, and culminated in a serious fight. Subsequently tried with a 4.5year old neutered male who actually attacked her. Was advised by a bonder that Phil was too demanding and that the male attack was justified. But found out subsequently that he did the same to other females he was attempted to be rehomed with. On that basis, I got Ollie as a last resort.
  
  He’s been here 4 days now. I know it’s early but I am feeling anxious. To say it was world war 3 on arrival would be an understatement. Phil went NUTS. We set him up in her main room as we live in a small apartment. She stalked, chased, grunted, growled, literally threw herself against the pen (she’s very territorial anyway, even with us humans on a good day). 4 days on, she’s better in that she’s not trying to constantly bite him through the bars but will launch herself at him if he moves too quickly or she sees him with her things (I’ve had to take back a tunnel from him because that was making her furious when he used it). She’s doing lots of flopping when he’s calm but still dropping territorial poops and as I said, launching herself toward him at times. She will also sniff him now when he’s quiet without trying to bite but always with tail raised and ears back. He’s fine, showing lots of calm curiosity and binkies and no reciprocated aggression, but chinning everything in reach.
  
  I acknowledge the progress for sure but to be honest, I am wondering whether she will ever be able to share safely. The bonder we used before said that she’s the equivalent of being on the autistic spectrum, that she doesn’t understand other rabbit’s social cues and uses aggression when she’s confused. The bonder also said having another bun in her home would probably just be too stressful for her to negotiate socially. Not that I don’t respect the bonder’s advice, but Phil is SUPER smart and loving and fun and really requires A LOT of attention from me and I think it’s loneliness and boredom, so I went ahead and got Ollie. Am now feeling overwhelmed at the thought of bonding them (he’s 3 weeks neutered so I’d need to wait a bit longer I know) based on her ongoing aggression which I hoped would subside more quickly. Basically, she’s fine when he’s not near her or moving, which I feel isn’t a positive prognosis.
  
  I’m also worried about her getting attached to him, thus the early anxiety and message to the forum. She went into stasis after the broken bond with our other female and I don’t want that to happen again. She has so much love to give but she’s a very, very difficult personality and admittedly, different to any other bun I’ve met in her intensity levels.
  
  Do you think I should just accept that she’s a solo bun candidate or persevere? I have no support on this, my partner disagrees with this whole thing and is having no part in it, which is adding to my stress. I should also say, she was very happy alone, full of binkies and flops and play and got cuddles every evening after work for multiple hours.
  
  Any advice welcome.
  
  Thank you 🙏
  
  Lisa
- 03/29/2022 at 12:40 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Oh Phil! <3
  
  Some buns just aren’t great candidates for bonding. I have also talked with some friends at the rescue about some buns being somewhat “autistic” (for lack of a better word) in that they don’t communicate the same way as other bunnies. I had a bond break on me with a bun that I think fits that category.
  
  I also know of at least 1 bun that was deemed “unbondable”, and then years later insta-bonded with a foster bun.
  
  Did she happen to go on a date in neutral territory with Ollie? It is normal for buns to be upset when you bring a new bun home, it’s just that with her history I think I’d be nervous too.
  
  It sounds like she was doing well alone…. so based on everything and the whole history, it might be best to just keep her solo? You could try giving her a stuffy as a cuddle companion? Or you could try to take her on lots of speed dates until you find a really great match?
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
  - 03/30/2022 at 1:13 AM
    Lisa-P&T
    Participant
    67 posts
    Thanks for your feedback.
    
    We’re on day 6 now and things are MUCH calmer. If he takes her by surprise for any reason, she will get into an aggressive stance and grunt but otherwise, doesn’t react anymore to his movements and he has his tunnel back now without issue. I’ve been swapping litter trays, a stuffy, and blankets but not entire areas. She gets agitated for a few minutes each time and then calms quickly.
    
    They’re sleeping at the fence together too because I moved his tray there and he seems to like sleeping in that. Although, he was 50% of the time sleeping on a blanket in a crate and now 100% sleeping in the tray since we moved it to beside her blanket at the fence. So, to be fair to her, she has come on a lot since I posted.
    
    I just have that fear, like you said DanaNM, about the bond breaking down the line.
    
    Haven’t done a date yet as he’s only 3 weeks neutered. Now, in saying that, I don’t observe any hormonal behaviour on his end. He’s extremely chilled out and has yet to react with reciprocated aggression, to his credit. He has just been turning and sitting with his back to her when she was being very aggressive. I interpret that as ‘disapprove. Stop.’?
    
    I’m keen to try a date for sure but do I need to wait?
    
    Thanks so much and sorry for the saga!
    
    To both of you, it’s kind of comforting to hear that there are others like her. She really is different than other buns, like she’s a total weapon and just the way she behaves and thinks is so observable different to other buns. She has brains to burn, unfortunately. Unlike Wick, she does seek out attention and grooms and things in a bond, but also will QUICKLY bite to make any hint of her displeasure known.
    
    Any advice RE dating sooner or waiting very welcome. This has made me think maybe she is best off solo… But RE giving her appropriate time and attention, it’s really only after work she can get it. So that means often 20 hours alone, which was my driver for trying one last time. But I can’t deny she wasn’t full of binkies, zooms, and cuddles every day when she was alone.
    
    So confused and conflicted!!! I just love her so much and want her to be optimally happy and it’s hard to know what that looks like for her, specifically…
- 03/29/2022 at 1:31 PM
  Wick & Fable
  Moderator
  5813 posts
  I don’t have the background that DanaNM does about your situation, so to speak directly to the question of unbondable rabbits, I too have direct experience with rabbit personalities that just don’t seem super compatible with others. My Wick and Fable are two single rabbits, and I primarily blame Wick since he just does not seem at all interested in cuddle/groom/companionship-contact with other rabbits (and also leans to aggression when confused or caught off guard). At the same time, Fable is a very overbearing, needy, and intense groomer…..
  
  I think solo buns can still thrive if given appropriate, constant human attention, and also, if you have the space and willingness, a second single bun can still be a stimulating and pleasant engagement, even if they can’t actually share space together. Fable constantly seeks out Wick to lounge by him along the pen, and Wick, at times, will do the same.
  
  The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
  - 03/30/2022 at 1:18 AM
    Lisa-P&T
    Participant
    67 posts
    Sorry, just RE the attention she did get as a solo bun:
    
    Nightly rub sessions of 1-2 hours where she’d lie up beside my partner and he’d rub her while we watch a show (or any time he’s home she would do the same).
    
    I play chasing with her (her favourite game, weirdly) and tug of War or organising, and arrange things like sheets and boxes so she has new things to navigate.
    
    She was always OBSESSED with food though and hasn’t been so since Ollie arrived as she’s preoccupied with him, so I take that as confirmation that it was boredom. She would constantly seek me out for playtime and that was tough if I was busy as she would come look for me and stare at me or zoom etc.
    
    So I absolutely tried my best but felt it wasn’t enough. I’m more than open to being corrected though!
  - 03/30/2022 at 5:01 AM
    Lisa-P&T
    Participant
    67 posts
    So this will be a short thread!
    
    I popped them into a neutral space today, thinking even for 5 minutes just to see if they’d ignore each other even. But no, fur flew within 60 seconds – literally, clumps on the floor even though I separated immediately. It’s hard to tell who instigated but I think it was Phil as she seemed more aggressive but I don’t think he was innocent in the matter.
    
    I just don’t think she’s a bun that can be truly happy with another bun. I suppose it was worth one last ditch attempt.
    
    Thanks for your help. I’ll just have to keep doing what I’m doing and try to enrich her life as much as possible when I am here.
- 04/03/2022 at 7:31 AM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Dang, yeah fur flying immediately is not a good sign, especially given her history! If this was a first attempt I would suggest some ways to get over the hurdle, but I think with Phil she would need an ideal pairing. Or possibly wait until you move to a different house so the whole place is neutral (that’s worked for some in the past).
  
  You can’t say you didn’t try!
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
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