Broken bond - what to do next?

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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

This topic has 9sd replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 8 months ago by DanaNM.

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- 02/10/2022 at 11:03 AM
  mia
  Participant
  551 posts
  BUN1 and BUN2 had rough start bonding 3 years ago. BUN2 does know seem to know proper bunny etiquette / communication and was previously returned to shelter for fighting/injuries. However, BUN1 and BUN2 were eventually bonded though never the tightest relationship; they both loved BUN3. BUN3 passed away and BUN1 and BUN2 became much much closer. Around the same time, the living situation also changed/got smaller due to HUMAN illness.
  
  BUN1 and BUN2 suddenly started fighting 2 months ago, which resulted in injuries. It’s possible it may have started due BUN2 illness. Both BUNs are currently getting medical care for multiple issues while the injuries have healed on both BUNs. The fighting was super aggressive and the BUNs were separated to live separated in an x-pen. The BUNs interact like normal with the “barrier” (just a grid, no actual distance), both lovingly and sometimes indifferent, but never fights.
  
  When they are both out exercising, they can be ok until BUN2 makes sudden moves; BUN2 does not seem to know how to make “normal” moves. These sudden moves scared BUN1. Same also happen during intial bonding but BUN1 is much more traumatized now. HUMAN has taken BUNs on care rides and even the vet. BUN1 just freezes. BUNs have also been placed in large box for attempted bonding sessions and BUN1 also freezes there. BUN2 is indifferent to BUN1 in these situations and happily eats and lounges.
  
  BUNs can probably live happily in current separated situation. However, HUMAN is still very sick and would really rather the BUNS live together.
- 02/10/2022 at 12:15 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Hmmm, that’s a tough situation. I’m sorry to hear you are still sick. 🙁
  
  It can be really challenging to bond when one rabbit is very fearful. In those cases, stressing (car rides) and small space tactics don’t seem to work very well (my observation from my own experience and others on the forum), because it can lead to the bunnies making a kind of false bond, that breaks down the road.
  
  Since they fought pretty badly, I think it would be best if they had full separation from each other for at least a few weeks. This will help them start to forget the fighting. Essentially I think you’ll need to start from scratch with their bond.
  
  Give their histories and the behaviors you described, I think a slower method in a larger, neutral space will be your best chance with them. In a larger area, the sudden movements from BUN2 wont seem as threatening to BUN1, because they have a bit more space. I would start with short sessions and really focus on building trust between them. If the buns like petting, you can pet them a lot when they approach each other. The idea is to build a positive association, so BUN1 thinks, “Oh, when BUN2 comes over here I get some grooms”, rather than “BUN2 is coming to bite me”. You can even use the “smoosh” method, where you put them both on a table and pet them side by side, but this really only works if the buns both like to be petted.
  
  This could be more work than you are up for with your illness, so I’m sorry I don’t have an easy answer. 🙁 Based off their history I just don’t think doing something like 24/7 small space bonding will be successful long term.
  
  With your illness it may be easier to decide they will be separate for the time being, since they need some cooling off time anyway. Sometimes the “limbo” period where they are separate but you’re trying to bond them is more work than just having 2 completely separate buns. Is there anyone that can help you out? I saw you mentioned a rescue in another post. Perhaps someone from the rescue can temporarily foster one of your bunnies until you are well enough to work with them together again?
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 02/10/2022 at 12:59 PM
  mia
  Participant
  551 posts
  By full separation, does this mean not the current set up where they can see/sniff each other? Or is it ok to keep this setup but just never had them out together and not trying any bonding?
  
  I’ve tried forcing them together in attempts for smoosh but BUN1 just freezes. I literally thought he died once from one of his freezes. They can actually eat from the same plate but once BUN2 does anything, even just readjusting his position, BUN1 bolts and wont come back.
  
  It’s unlikely I’ll get well anytime soon; I’ve had very severe long covid for nearly two years. I’ve had serious considerations to give them up even when they were getting along as BUN3 may have died because of me… At least they are fighting/getting sick now when I’m a little bit better…
- 02/10/2022 at 1:25 PM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  Ugh that’s awful. I’m so sorry. 🙁
  
  And by separation, it’s hard to say. If the fight and injuries were really bad, itusually means not able to see each other at all. But if the fighting wasn’t horrendous (and they seem to have calmed down already) I think they could be OK side by side, maybe with a visual barrier? You could hang a blanket or a towel on the pen wall that separates them.
  
  Give everything you’ve been through, it also may not be worth the trouble. Some pairings just don’t work out, and some bunnies especially are very hard to bond. It’s of course our decision, but I don’t think you should feel guilty if you have to rehome one of them. I had a failed bond (similar type of bunny interactions actually), and at the time I was living in a studio, so I just didn’t have the space to fully separate them a try again. But I was able to give the shelter valuable info about the bun’s personality so he could find a home that was a better match, almost like a long term foster home.
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 02/11/2022 at 8:42 AM
  mia
  Participant
  551 posts
  As soon as I read this message yesterday, I put a towel on the entire barrier*. This morning, everything looked fine but all night BUN2 seemed to be digging to get to BUN1. I walked away and came back and found they switched sides (barrier is low but never had any issues)… Ok… I went to give them pellets and BUN1 jumps over to join BUN2 (the side I was dispensing pellts first) and they both act like they are best friends.
  
  For now, I will keep the tower on the barrier until all current medical issues are resolved but let them out together to exercise and see.
  
  *I had put a towel on half the barrier previously when they were massively fighting figuring they could choose if they wanted to remain friends or not. They always chose the side that lacked the towel.
- 02/11/2022 at 9:18 AM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  haha! well that’s good i guess?? I have heard of this happening… two separate buns finally decide they want to be together and act like nothing was ever wrong.
  
  Let us know how it goes!
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
- 02/11/2022 at 6:47 PM
  attemptedquad
  Participant
  52 posts
  They find a way! Lol, when I was bonding my first pair over 2 years ago, I was super nervous and frustrated with bonding. I went to sleep one night, woke up the next morning, and my female had hopped right into the male’s pen. There was one small tuft of fur pulled off of him, but otherwise fine and they were snuggling. It was in a room right next to where I slept, so I would have heard actual fighting. They’ve been bonded ever since!
- 02/13/2022 at 12:08 PM
  mia
  Participant
  551 posts
  It was short lived. After that, someone hopped over and war broke out.
  
  But, later one, during exercise time where I decided only to let one out, BUN1 was found grooming BUN2; first grooming since the giant fight a few months ago.
  
  With the barrier raised and towel over the entire barrier, BUN1, for the first time since giant fight, is lounging (BUN2 does it all the time since he doesn’t understand what any fuss is about…). I think BUN1 needs this as there are medical issues we need to resolve and medication time is stressing him too). When BUN2 tries to peek over, BUN1 gets all shakey.
- 02/28/2022 at 11:22 AM
  mia
  Participant
  551 posts
  😀 Happy to report they spent their first night together. It was without a huge fight and they sleeping together,.
  
  1. Their illnesses, multiple in each one, had to be 90%+ resolved – I think this was the major issue/stressor. BUN2 was probably is lots of pain. This is their first illness while together. I do wonder if bond would break again if either got sick again and I’m sure they will get sick again especially as they are seniors. BUN1 has been through multiple illness, even major surgery, with other BUNS without any issue.
  
  2. medication stress down – highly stressed during medication time. Never happened with BUN1 before.
  
  3. I never completely separated them. The high barrier with towel on entire thing… BUN2 would move the towel or get under it so he could see BUN1.
  
  4. When I cleaned and reset their area a couple days ago, I set it up like two areas, just without barrier. They kept apart with BUN1 very scared (pellets spread out but BUN1 too scared to eat) and eventually trying to express his dominance (humping like crazy.he has never done this and he’s had numerous friends). I didn’t let it play out to long as BUN2 would eventually start trying to bite. BUN2 peed everywhere. I put the low barrier up at night. Next day mostly same, without any dominance, so I test the night without barrier.
- 02/28/2022 at 11:27 AM
  DanaNM
  Moderator
  9054 posts
  I’m so happy they did well on the overnight!
  
  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.
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